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College and Debt

Postby DirtyDishSoap on Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:35 am

warmonger1981 wrote:Let's quit selling kids the idea that college is a must. Most get worthless degrees. Then stay in debt for years with a worthless degrees. But that's another story. Face it guns will never be banned. A social change is needed. Like a complete overhaul. And that's another can if worms.


Most employers want one of two or both things. A degree and/or job experience. Depending on the type of field, it's a requirement to have one. Obviously jobs that have you stacking bricks or mixing cement doesn't require a degree. But if you want to attend any curriculum with a desire to pursue a career that requires a degree, you'll probably live in debt for the majority of your life. Sounds fantastic, right?

I'd rather have them reduce these ridiculous fucking costs for colleges and universities so we don't live in debt to begin with. Start with taking away the funding for college football (blasphemy, sorry). The costs just to maintain these athletic programs are ridiculous, and it's money that can be better spent. Why do I have to live in debt so some other meat head can play football? That alone gives me 0 incentive to attend any sort of college/university. It's fucking dumb.

I'll be happy with whatever job that requires dip shit thinking. At least I don't have to worry about a student loan from twenty years ago.

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Symmetry wrote:
The ram wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Ok, so some stuff goes over your head?


No not here anyway. He never said they were forced.


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Re: College and Debt

Postby KoolBak on Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:11 am

Bingo.
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Re: College and Debt

Postby mrswdk on Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:22 am

Societal perceptions are changing, albeit slowly. Some employers have dropped their requirement for applicants to have degrees, although most of the big ones are still living in the days of 'must have a degree in any subject'.

In the UK all universities are public, and a few years ago tuition fees charged to students were raised from £3,000 to £9,000 per year. At the same time the student loans system was changed and interest rates on debts became higher (c. 6%), making them even more expensive. It depends what numbers you use but it seems that the level of debt students get into in the UK is now actually worse than even America. Personally I'm crossing my fingers that all the fuss the rise in fees has created will the the push needed for parents to accept that vocational education/immediate employment is the better option for most children and for 18 year-olds to stop going to university and start entering vocational education/immediate employment.
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Re: College and Debt

Postby 2dimes on Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:39 am

Reality has failed to load in this thread....
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Re: College and Debt

Postby KoolBak on Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:42 pm

An example. Here in oregon there are 2 main public universities. U of O has a huge football program that the state in general just goes nuts over. Grown men and women basing their entire lives on the antics of college football. WT actual F, over?

I'm not a football fan, and ESPECIALLY not a college football fan. Professionals in their 50s, 60s, 70s and above absolutely going nuts over a bunch of teenagers whose only goal is to party, get laid and play. It is disgusting. And the favoritism and bribes these kids get....one was busted a while ago for accepting a new expensive car for f*ck sakes as a bribe to what he'd do......actullay, I think it was a high school kid being bribed to go to U of O.

Rant over.
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Re: College and Debt

Postby Neoteny on Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:57 pm

I like football and college ball in particular but would happily give it up for affordable college. Thing is, those large programs essentially pay for all other extracurricular activities, so it has its defences from that perspective, but there are certainly other models to make these institutions work.

Also, pay the kids.
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Re: College and Debt

Postby Bernie Sanders on Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:04 pm

With the internet, Colleges/Universities will have to cut tuition fees.

The future is here, but has yet to catch up to education.

Technical schools are still affordable and practical for most adults.
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Re: College and Debt

Postby mrswdk on Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:10 pm

Bernie Sanders wrote:With the internet, Colleges/Universities will have to cut tuition fees.


On 6 August 1991, the World Wide Web went live to the world.


https://thenextweb.com/insider/2011/08/ ... he-public/

Labour introduced tuition fees in England in 1998, capped at £1,000 a year. This was then raised to £3,000 and to £9,000 in 2012. Fees are now capped at £9,250.


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... s-12054323
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Re: College and Debt

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:26 pm

mrswdk wrote:
Bernie Sanders wrote:With the internet, Colleges/Universities will have to cut tuition fees.


On 6 August 1991, the World Wide Web went live to the world.


https://thenextweb.com/insider/2011/08/ ... he-public/

Labour introduced tuition fees in England in 1998, capped at £1,000 a year. This was then raised to £3,000 and to £9,000 in 2012. Fees are now capped at £9,250.


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... s-12054323


mrswdk is right

Universities (at least in the U.S.) control accreditation through the CHEA, therefore, universities control all distance learning courses that will lead to any meaningful credential. Businesses don't take actions to put themselves out of business.

Also, good luck in getting a chemistry or electrical engineering degree online.
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Re: College and Debt

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:28 pm

Anyone who thinks college football should be de-funded by so much as $1 hates America and should move to Laos.
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Re: College and Debt

Postby DirtyDishSoap on Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:05 pm

saxitoxin wrote:Anyone who thinks college football should be de-funded by so much as $1 hates America and should move to Laos.

DEFUND COLLEGE FOOTBALL!
Symmetry wrote:
The ram wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Ok, so some stuff goes over your head?


No not here anyway. He never said they were forced.


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Re: College and Debt

Postby DoomYoshi on Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:08 pm

My college cost around 40k. Now I drive a truck, which cost ~200 bucks to get licensed.
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Re: College and Debt

Postby Bernie Sanders on Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:13 pm

saxitoxin wrote:Anyone who thinks college football should be de-funded by so much as $1 hates America and should move to Laos.



Gee.....and I thought you loved your Mother Russia more? What happened, they stopped paying you and kicked you out of the one room apartment in Moscow?
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Re: College and Debt

Postby warmonger1981 on Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:42 pm

Neoteny wrote:I like football and college ball in particular but would happily give it up for affordable college. Thing is, those large programs essentially pay for all other extracurricular activities, so it has its defences from that perspective, but there are certainly other models to make these institutions work.

Also, pay the kids.




Well, money on Sports should be directed towards education I'm thinking. Cut some money for sports. I never heard of football programs paying for most other sports programs on a university. I'm not saying you're a liar but if you have some statistics to back it up would be nice. I'm always for learning new stuff.
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Re: College and Debt

Postby Neoteny on Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:07 pm

Well, here's an old forbes article talking about it. Looks like my statement is mostly relevant to B1G and SEC, which are the main conferences I follow. So snopes would probably rate my statement partly true. I'm down for cutting obnoxious coaching salaries and such though, which would bring a lot of those schools back into the black.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sportsmone ... f83e271c2f
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Re: College and Debt

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:08 pm

So much is left over after paying the athletic bills, OSU each year transfers some money from its athletic department to the academic side of campus. The transfer was $8.6 million in 2013-14 and $8.3 million a year earlier, according to the school's last two financial reports to the NCAA.

http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/in ... dep_1.html
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Re: College and Debt

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:18 pm

DirtyDishSoap wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:Anyone who thinks college football should be de-funded by so much as $1 hates America and should move to Laos.

DEFUND COLLEGE FOOTBALL!


YOU GO HERE NOW:

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Re: College and Debt

Postby DoomYoshi on Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:18 pm

Isn't Laos the Thai word for "Lover of College Football"? That's some irony right there.
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Re: College and Debt

Postby mrswdk on Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:25 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:Isn't Laos the Thai word for "Lover of College Football"? That's some irony right there.


Also, the Chinese on that sign says 'Thailand'.

DOUBLE INCEPTION
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Re: College and Debt

Postby Thorthoth on Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:35 pm

Bernie Sanders wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:Anyone who thinks college football should be de-funded by so much as $1 hates America and should move to Laos.

Gee.....and I thought you loved your Mother Russia more? What happened, they stopped paying you and kicked you out of the one room apartment in Moscow?

The Bern is right on this one, Suxi. All college and pro and football players/coaches/etc should be forced to mine Uranium in the Gulag. In fact they should be sent in a time-machine back to Soviet-era Russia, modern post-communist Russia is too good for them.
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Re: College and Debt

Postby DirtyDishSoap on Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:25 am

saxitoxin wrote:
DirtyDishSoap wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:Anyone who thinks college football should be de-funded by so much as $1 hates America and should move to Laos.

DEFUND COLLEGE FOOTBALL!


YOU GO HERE NOW:

Image

HELP HELP!

I'M BEING OPPRESSED!
Symmetry wrote:
The ram wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Ok, so some stuff goes over your head?


No not here anyway. He never said they were forced.


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Re: College and Debt

Postby patches70 on Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:53 pm

OP ignores economic realities. During the Obama administration the Federal government virtually took over the entire student loan market. The Federal government dumped around a $1 trillion into said market.

Why does this matter?

Because, when you dump a ton of money (credit) into a relatively static market (it takes a while to build new colleges for instance), what happens to prices in said static market?

Prices increase, quickly.

What's even worse, Federal debt can't be negated through bankruptcy. You can declare bankruptcy, but any monies owed to the government can't be dismissed through bankruptcy proceedings.

A lot of the college football programs are funded largely by alma mater organizations, i.e. through private funds. If the OP wants to get into the real problems about the collegiate football/sports programs, that's fine and dandy, but they contribute little to the cost of college to the average student. Dumping tons of money into a static market has a far greater impact on prices to the degree that pretty much everything else is just peanuts in comparison.
The idea of "free"college is even more laughable as the economic consequences of having the government pay for everyone's tuition would be disastrous and predictable. College tuition prices would spike even more, but no one would think anything of it because the Gubbimint is paying for it. Well, until the tax bill comes due, then it'll be all piss, moaning and gnashing of teeth.

Also, rarely talked about, is the ROI on college educations is for the most part terrible. Except in specific fields. If you wanna get a degree in gender studies and you think you are going to get a job in that field and expect to earn enough to pay of 10's of thousands in non dismissible debt, then you aren't much of a thinker. The degree matters. A lot of the degrees people can get from college aren't worth much at all.

Anyway, there are always alternatives to going into debt for a college education. The general rule is to get out of debt, stay out of debt. One should think really hard and explore other alternatives before just willy nilly going into debt for a degree. One should also shop around because not all colleges are as expensive as others and offer basically the same degree in many fields as higher priced more "prestigious" schools. If one is dead set on it, then best prepare early and be prepared to do a lot of work long before actually going to school to try to pay for as much of it as possible without going into debt.
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Re: College and Debt

Postby waauw on Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:45 am

Cheaper and more affordable education is possible without increasing government expenses. All you need to do is force change. Increase regulation. A college professor selling his course books for 500$ isn't educating, he's extorting. A college spending oversized budgets on college footbal or basketball or whatever isn't in the education business, it's in the entertainment business. Leave sports to the professional sports teams. They market will find a way to compensate a lack of college football. And colleges selling education in things such as 'gender studies' aren't selling job perspectives, they're selling delusions.

Most of europe can offer cheaper and better education, because gender studies don't exist over here, college sports teams don't exist and professors extorting their students is to such a degree is outlawed. Education has the same problem as everything else in the USA, big businesses regulate the government rather than the other way around.
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Re: College and Debt

Postby DoomYoshi on Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:07 am

What's the point of university without gender studies? How else can you keep up with all the gender pronouns? In English we have about 18 000. I imagine it's worse once you start adding the other European languages.
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Re: College and Debt

Postby mrswdk on Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:21 am

waauw wrote:Most of europe can offer cheaper and better education


Top 30 universities in the world:

US - 15
UK - 6
China - 4
Switzerland - 2
Singapore - 2
Japan - 1
Australia - 1

https://www.topuniversities.com/univers ... kings/2018
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