US Trade Wars (15 June 2018 – present)

[GoranZ]

Which countries have Canada occupied, other than Hollywood that is?

The list is quite long for such young country. If we include Canada's role as part of Great Britain then the numbers skyrocket.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_ ... _of_Canada

mrswdk loses this thread.

She can repent her sins, and start from scratch after that

[2dimes]

Depends on whom you ask, maps differ.

That's pretty cool. I wonder why they differ so much?

[Neoteny]

You caught me, pedant. I was off by a few years on the US by including all European colonization to get closer to the approximate time period. But the point stands.

Not really. I'm just using 'reductio ad absurdum' on mrswdk's reasoning that pre-1911 there was no China and that everything predating that cannot be considered chinese. It is after all one of mrswdk's own preferred methods of argumentation. It's only right that I'm allowed to use equal methods in return.

I mean, the argument is that modern China is different in a lot of ways from previous Chinese states despite all being parts of a particular history, and that it's fair to say that the wars of 600 years ago don't really reflect on modern political China. I guess whatever pettiness you have between you and mrswdk is your prerogative, but when the argument you're making is that fucking stupid, it's only right that people call you out on it.

[mrswdk]

Oh look, a video that proves my point completely. Thanks for sharing, waauw!

[Dukasaur]

Depends on whom you ask, maps differ.

That's pretty cool. I wonder why they differ so much?

More importantly, according to whom? They just say, "Chinese Version" and "Western Version". I would want to ask the author, "Chinese version according to which Chinese historian?" and "Western version according to which Western historian?" As it stands, it's a meaningless comparison of some unsourced nameless person's opinion versus some other unsourced nameless person's opinion.

[Dukasaur]

http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2018/03/george_will_trumps_tariffs_exp.html

BY GEORGE F. WILL

WASHINGTON -- Is it too much to ask that the government not insult our intelligence while it is lightening our wallets? As an overture to his predictable announcement of steel and aluminum tariffs, the president, that human sponge ever eager to soak up information, held a "listening session," at which he listened to executives of steel and aluminum companies urge him to do what he intended to do. He ended this charade of deliberation by announcing the tax increases.

The tariffs -- taxes collected at the border, paid by American consumers -- on steel and aluminum imports will be 25 percent and 10 percent, respectively, the most severe of the options proposed by his Commerce Department, which impedes the activity denoted by its name. But the 6.5 million employees in steel-using industries (46 times the number of steel-making jobs) and the hundreds of millions of consumers of steel- and aluminum-content products should not complain, they should salute: The president says the tariffs are national security necessities.

Never mind that the Cato Institute's Colin Grabow notes that defense-related products require only 3 percent and 10 percent of domestic steel and aluminum production, respectively. Or that six of the top 10 nations that export steel to the United States have mutual defense agreements with the United States. Or that China, an actual military competitor and potential adversary, is not among the top 10. Or that Canada, a NATO ally, supplies more U.S. aluminum imports than the next 11 countries combined. Or that, as The Washington Post reports, "For nearly a quarter-century under U.S. law, Canada has been considered part of the U.S. defense industrial base, as if its factories were American." Or that the aluminum for military aircraft and the steel for military vehicles will be more expensive so, effectively, the administration is cutting the defense budget. Cato's Dan Ikenson says the administration's argument seems to be "that an abundance of low-priced raw materials from a diversity of sources somehow threatens national security."

But, then, invocations of "national security" can rationalize a multitude of sins. Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla., says the sugar import quotas that enrich a few already rich Floridians are required for America's "food security." It will be desirable (because educational) if some nations retaliate for the steel and aluminum tariffs by imposing 25 percent tariffs on Florida citrus in the interest of "food security."

Electrolux, Europe's largest manufacturer of household appliances, responded to the U.S. tariffs by suspending plans to invest $250 million in a Tennessee factory. Before the announcement of the tariffs, which are intended to raise steel prices, Whirlpool's CEO lamented to analysts that rising prices of steel and other materials might knock $250 million off Whirlpool's profits. Whirlpool had just made a rent-seeking raid on Washington, where it successfully sought protection against foreign washing machines -- tariffs and import quotas that will punish American purchasers of appliances. As Lily Tomlin says, "No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up."

[tzor]

Well the U.S. doesn't really export anything except porn and wheat

That's not exactly true. "Petroleum steel motor vehicles aerospace telecommunications chemicals electronics food processing consumer goods lumber mining"

The United States is an exporting powerhouse, but you wouldn't know it given how much President Donald Trump complains about imports and trade gaps.

A trade war can be exceptionally bad for the U.S. I'm not into the "It's Smoot–Hawley all over again," crowd but I think it's the wrong tool in our arsenal to use.

[2dimes]

The right tool is a Boeing product.

[GoranZ]

The Chinese and EU are already coordinating their response... This might escalate quickly.

‘Neither good nor easy to win’: EU, China gear up for trade war with US

[HitRed]

The President quickly got EVERYONE focused on the issue. That is what a leader does. The old way was form a commission, headed by someone no one ever heard of, take a poll, do a study, wait months and years, then bury the results.

[GoranZ]

And the Trade Wars have officially started...

First move made by US. Trump imposes $60bn in tariffs on Chinese imports, accusing Beijing of intellectual-property theft. How will the Chinese respond?

[mrswdk]

Can't wait to see footage of all those interfering US ships with fish swimming around their towers at the bottom of the South China Sea.

[riskllama]

Well the U.S. doesn't really export anything except porn and wheat

That's not exactly true. "Petroleum steel motor vehicles aerospace telecommunications chemicals electronics food processing consumer goods lumber mining"

The United States is an exporting powerhouse, but you wouldn't know it given how much President Donald Trump complains about imports and trade gaps.

A trade war can be exceptionally bad for the U.S. I'm not into the "It's Smoot–Hawley all over again," crowd but I think it's the wrong tool in our arsenal to use.

you guys should start importing commas from canada, maybe.

[GoranZ]

Can't wait to see footage of all those interfering US ships with fish swimming around their towers at the bottom of the South China Sea.

I always though that you wanted too see that picture off the coast of Hawaii

[Bernie Sanders]

Trump is just throwing shiny objects around to distract from the bimbo explosions, and the Mueller investigation

[DoomYoshi]

Looks like the markets are set to tumble. May they never recover.

[waauw]

Looks like the markets are set to tumble. May they never recover.

Why? You short?

[DoomYoshi]

Looks like the markets are set to tumble. May they never recover.

Why? You short?

I'm not in the 1%. Therefore any major total systemic collapse lets me roll the dice again. Except, since I'm already well-educated, strong and popular I have a better chance to end up near the top. It's like if you draw a card and if you draw queen of spades you win, you'd want to keep drawing cards until it came up, even if you knew the chances were slim.

The only thing that is kind of like a shart is that white males hold all the power and it is conceivable that whatever system takes over places white males in a position of inferiority.

[GoranZ]

And the first victim of US trade wars is most likely Boeing. Did Trump shot himself in the foot?

Boeing tumbles as China targets aircraft in trade war with Trump

[HitRed]

In turmoil there is profit. Bought ADT 3 days ago.

Safety stocks are gold.

[karel]

you all need to calm the f*c k down

[GoranZ]

And Trump again turns his eyes on Europe.

EU was created to rip US off, Trump says as allies brace for trade war

[armati]

Iran deal: Trump announces withdrawal, will re-institute sanctions ...

‘Strong Tehran means strong Ankara’: Turkey vows to maintain trade with Iran.
‘Are we America’s vassals?’ France vows to trade with Iran in defiance of US ‘economic policeman’
Trade talks continue between oil-rich Iran and Russia.
Russia looks to dump US dollar in settlements with Iran.
China’s new train line to Iran sends message to Trump: We’ll keep trading anyway
India-Iran trade: Not expecting major shift in trade with Iran
23 Countries Now Abandoning US Dollar http://www.truthandaction.org/

[GoranZ]

Germany will be hit very hard with this trade war.
EU Vows to Respond to 'Unjustified' US Metal Tariffs, Launch WTO Dispute

[armati]

In 1971, President Nixon imposed national price controls and took the United States off the gold standard, an extreme measure intended to end an ongoing currency war that had destroyed faith in the U.S. dollar. Today we are engaged in a new currency war, and this time the consequences will be far worse than those that confronted Nixon.


Currency wars are one of the most destructive and feared outcomes in international economics. At best, they offer the sorry spectacle of countries' stealing growth from their trading partners. At worst, they degenerate into sequential bouts of inflation, recession, retaliation, and sometimes actual violence. Left unchecked, the next currency war could lead to a crisis worse than the panic of 2008.

Currency wars have happened before-twice in the last century alone-and they always end badly. Time and again, paper currencies have collapsed, assets have been frozen, gold has been confiscated, and capital controls have been imposed. And the next crash is overdue. Recent headlines about the debasement of the dollar, bailouts in Greece and Ireland, and Chinese currency manipulation are all indicators of the growing conflict.

As James Rickards argues in Currency Wars, this is more than just a concern for economists and investors. The United States is facing serious threats to its national security, from clandestine gold purchases by China to the hidden agendas of sovereign wealth funds. Greater than any single threat is the very real danger of the collapse of the dollar itself.

Rickards wrote the book in 2012, from currency wars we move to trade wars, from trade wars to shooting wars.