by patches70 on Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:33 pm
There is a lot of stupidity and emotion in this thread.
Time for some truth, some reality.
This is not a question of ethics or morality, it's a question of law. Immigration is a question of law. Political asylum is a question of law.
When ever there is a question of law there is a procedure that is laid out, that's how law functions.
Every nation on the planet has the sovereign right to know who is coming and going from it's borders. Period. There is no middle ground, there are no "maybe's". Every nation on the Earth operates like this.
When making the argument "it's the right thing to do" or "we have to help people" is moronic because people making this argument are completely ignoring costs. Because there are only a finite amount of resources and time, unmitigated charity is a path to sure destitution.
For instance, you living in your house get a knock on your door. It's a family that is homeless and needs help. Perhaps you can give them some food, maybe even have a room they can use in your home until they get on their feet. But if it's ten families, you won't have the resources, the space or the time to help them all. You'd have no choice to turn some or all of them away, otherwise you'd be cutting your own throat because you have limited resources. It's the same for nations, including the US, which while shortly become clear once you understand the process.
On the subject of political asylum, one poster in this thread thinks the US are scumbags because the asylum seekers are fleeing from El Salvador Death Squads. That it is wrong for the US to separate these families. I can say without hesitation that any asylum seeker entering the US through any Port of Entry and requests political asylum, their families will not be broken up. That is the legal way to seek asylum. However, if you enter the country through any other means other than a Port of Entry, then you have illegally entered the country whether you are seeking asylum or not. This is important, which I'll get to shortly.
Those who go through the legal means of seeking asylum, they are interviewed of course. It helps if the person has plenty of documentation, it'll speed up the process. Now this is legal petition for asylum I'm talking about. First, the person's identity has to be verified, that means getting in contact with their home nation to confirm the paper work the person has. That takes time. Then there is the process by which the merits of the claim must be ascertained and confirmed. If so, then there will be medical exams for each member of the family. No one is getting in infected with Small Pox for instance. Every person has to be examined by a doctor, legal and illegal entries. Remember the thing about resources and time and the limits thereof? That takes doctors. Those doctors can only examine a set number of people per day.
Then there are the court hearings, a judge has to grant the asylum. Only a set number of people can be processed through court.
Now you can say, "add more doctors, add more judges and courts!" But there are only a finite amount of doctors, judges, time and space. Every doctor you have examining legal and illegal immigrants and asylum seekers is another less doctor serving American communities, American citizens. Then there is the cost, this is all fronted by Uncle Sam who is already spending $1trillion a year more than he takes in in revenues. So there are not unlimited resources or money.
The illegal asylum seeker on the other hand, has the above issues to deal with but also has the added issue of being arrested for illegally entering the country. Yes, they are arrested and detained. They are in jail. This is where children are separated, because no judge is going to send a kid into jail with the parents. Before the parents can even entertain their claim of the asylum they first must get through the issue of their illegal entry. That's a trial, it takes weeks, months even to resolve one way or another.
Immigrants coming through Port of Entries are also subject to alot of the same procedures. All their information has to be verified. Doctor examinations, court, etc etc. Then they may be issued allowance to enter the country and begin the process of integration, and it takes years and they are at the back of the line, but if all goes well they can wait their time in country building a relationship with the nation, which is critical from a legal standpoint.
Every single person who enters the country through a means other than a Port of Entry is the reason everything gets all fucked up, legal wise and procedure wise. Then there are the cases of the unaccompanied minors, which a large number of these children are in the shelters. Also there are the child smugglers. Any child that tries to enter the country with anyone other than their parents are immediately separated from that person(s). Which makes sense because the US doesn't want to let child smuggling go on, that's a legal, moral and ethical morass for obvious reasons. We also can't allow drug dealers, murderers, rapists or otherwise criminals into the country. I think no one would disagree with that I'd hope. The only way it can be ascertained that these people aren't such, is to have a process and procedure to properly vet each and every person.
Every single person who enters through any means other than Port of Entries is fucking up that process, procedure and vetting for not only themselves, but for everyone else as well.
Finite time, resources and space limit the amount of people that can be processed properly. That's why people are supposed to enter the country through Ports of Entry. Any other entrance into the country should not be encouraged by anyone, regardless of what you think the right thing to do is, or who you wish things should be or any other reason. It doesn't matter if the person entering is entering because they want to become an American citizen or are fleeing Death Squads. They should all be coming in through Ports of Entry, period. Any other method only further stresses the limited time and resources that can be devoted to processing these individuals.
The US doesn't separate children from legally entering families.
Illegally entering the country, all bets are off.
Legal or illegal, each and every person has to go through the legal system regardless. By entering illegally that legal question has to be dealt with through the courts, and that takes time.
Even if you think this sucks, it doesn't matter because there is no other alternative until we human beings can achieve infinite resources and energy, which is obviously impossible because there is also the time element as well. It all takes time. Imagine trying to get anywhere where everyone is butting in line, the chaos, the wasted time and energy trying to sort this mess out in a responsible and legal manner.
Trump's executive order is worthless because it's going to clash with Statutory Law that is the process. Unaccompanied minors are going into a shelter no matter what until they can properly paired with responsible parties, be it their parents or foster parents. Illegal immigrants (those who cross into the country outside Port of Entries) will be detained (Read:Jailed) and you can bet no judge is going to through their children in jail with them, they'll go to a shelter until their parents resolve their legal question.
Now I know the OP is full of shit, because I bet the OP can't point to a single mention of this issue pre Trump, because this process has been Statutory Law for decades. It happened under Obama, Bush Jr, Clinton, Bush, so on and so forth. The OP's only purpose on this forum that I can ascertain is to troll and breed dissension. This thread is yet another poor attempt to do so being as the OP has no idea the legalities of entering the US, because that's what it is, a legal question. All talk of morals, ethics or emotion is worth nothing more than opinion, and well all know what opinion is worth. Not a damn thing. The OP never cared about this until now.
The Dems are the same way. They know this has been going on because it's just the legal process under which entrants to the country are processed. They jump on it now because they think they can ride this pony to the midterms, but the more people keep talking about it the more the actual information about the legalities of immigration, asylum seeking become known. The Dems don't want this issue "solved" because they think this is finally the winning issue they can beat Trump with and win back the House and Senate.
I'm happy to inform you all that this pony ain't gonna get that far because you can sure as Hell bet that Congress isn't going to legislate a thing to solve this problem. The children these politicians claim to care about now, all of a sudden, are nothing more than a means to an end.
And that's the fucking truth. If anyone can solve the problem of finite resources, time and space, then by all means, push it, with a Nobel Prize in virtually every category and become fabulously rich in the process because such a thing is akin to perpetual motion. It's a nice fairy tale but it has no bearing on reality what so ever. Reality if a fucking bitch. All of you try to live in it if you can manage. Otherwise, enjoy your delusions.