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America Asks for Help

Postby HitRed on Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:55 am

Australia and New Zealand are sending firefighting crews to California and Oregon to help with massive wildfires. Are there any other times when American asked for help?

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Re: America Asks for Help

Postby KoolBak on Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:20 am

Every year during fire season. Cali and central / eastern / southern oregon ALWAYS burn like fook....
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Re: America Asks for Help

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:39 am

This is a great question. I googled it but unfortunately came up with a lot of the opposite. There have to be things more recent than French assistance in the American Revolution.
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Re: America Asks for Help

Postby HitRed on Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:56 am

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Re: America Asks for Help

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:17 am

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Re: America Asks for Help

Postby Neoteny on Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:45 am

Napoleon Ier wrote:You people need to grow up to be honest.
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Re: America Asks for Help

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:56 am

Neoteny wrote:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Maria


Does that count as "asking" for help of it wasn't requested and was largely a publicity stunt?

Mexico sent 30 tons of bottled water to Puerto Rico no one asked for, which is about 250,000 bottles worth probably $65K. President Trump personally donated $1 million the previous week to hurricane relief in Texas. This was a publicity stunt like when they sent a 200 soldiers to New Orleans after Katrina. They got a lot of pictures crossing the border but had to be supplied by the Louisiana National Guard since they didn't have enough equipment to be self sustaining once they arrived.
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Re: America Asks for Help

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:20 am

saxitoxin wrote:
Neoteny wrote:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Maria


Does that count as "asking" for help of it wasn't requested and was largely a publicity stunt?

Mexico sent 30 tons of bottled water to Puerto Rico no one asked for, which is about 250,000 bottles worth probably $65K. President Trump personally donated $1 million the previous week to hurricane relief in Texas. This was a publicity stunt like when they sent a 200 soldiers to New Orleans after Katrina. They got a lot of pictures crossing the border but had to be supplied by the Louisiana National Guard since they didn't have enough equipment to be self sustaining once they arrived.


I skimmed the wiki, but didn't see Mexico mentioned.
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Re: America Asks for Help

Postby Neoteny on Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:06 pm

They just within the last month or so got consistent electricity to most Puerto Ricans. Just because the Republican government doesn't care about American citizens, doesn't mean that people don't need aid. People can't drink propaganda Saxi.
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Re: America Asks for Help

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:13 pm

Neoteny wrote:They just within the last month or so got consistent electricity to most Puerto Ricans. Just because the Republican government doesn't care about American citizens, doesn't mean that people don't need aid. People can't drink propaganda Saxi.


So when did the US ask for help

I'm sure there are American citizens living in Cameroon without electricity. It's not the US' job to bring electricity to anywhere in the world a citizen happens to be.
Last edited by saxitoxin on Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: America Asks for Help

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:16 pm

So we have 3 so far:

- California forest fires
- Mexico giving water to Puerto Rico (let's just assume someone in the US asked)
- French assistance with American revolution

I suppose the Confederacy asked France, England, etc. during the Civil War but the Confederacy doesn't count as America because they were traitorous s.o.b.s.

We could add in situations where the US asked other countries for help doing things outside the US (e.g. during the Cold War) but seems like we're trying to focus on other countries helping the US in the US.
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Re: America Asks for Help

Postby mookiemcgee on Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:19 pm

I'm pretty sure we asked Mexico to help pay for the wall we are building
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Re: America Asks for Help

Postby Neoteny on Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:33 pm

saxitoxin wrote:So when did the US ask for help?


So you've retreated from the frankly disgusting position that aid for the devastated American citizens in Puerto Rico (the entirety of whom lost access to [even intermittent] power and gasoline for months , and therefore access to food and clean water) was "a publicity stunt (and one that even the glorious leader took part in)" to the concept that the US didn't ask for help at all.

Regardless, the conservative US government certainly wasn't interested in conceding that they were unable to cope with humanitarian emergencies in even tiny territories like Puerto Rico, but tacitly accepted foreign aid by waiving the Jones Act to allow foreign aid for disaster recovery. This of course ignores the requests by the people of Puerto Rico itself, a glossing I'm sure you're happy to defend.

Edit: to your edit, Cameroon maintains its own sovereignty to ask for aid as it sees fit. Puerto Rico is a US colony and its people are citizens on our soil, despite their lack of representation and recognition by their own government.
Last edited by Neoteny on Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: America Asks for Help

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:34 pm

mookiemcgee wrote:I'm pretty sure we asked Mexico to help pay for the wall we are building


I don't think the president asked so much as ordered (ineffectually). Let's add to this list as #4.
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Re: America Asks for Help

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:50 pm

Neoteny wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:So when did the US ask for help?


So you've retreated from the frankly disgusting position that aid for the devastated American citizens in Puerto Rico (the entirety of whom lost access to [even intermittent] power and gasoline for months , and therefore access to food and clean water) was "a publicity stunt (and one that even the glorious leader took part in)" to the concept that the US didn't ask for help at all.

Regardless, the conservative US government certainly wasn't interested in conceding that they were unable to cope with humanitarian emergencies in even tiny territories like Puerto Rico, but tacitly accepted foreign aid by waiving the Jones Act to allow foreign aid for disaster recovery. This of course ignores the requests by the people of Puerto Rico itself, a glossing I'm sure you're happy to defend.

Edit: to your edit, Cameroon maintains its own sovereignty to ask for aid as it sees fit. Puerto Rico is a US colony and its people are citizens on our soil, despite their lack of representation and recognition by their own government.


Now you're just ranting.

Puerto Rico can declare independence if they're dissatisfied with the current arrangement. The last two referendums they've had on the subject has received less than 10 percent support.
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Re: America Asks for Help

Postby Neoteny on Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:07 pm

Ah yes, the classic two paragraph rant. Criticizing the Trump administration isn't ranting, Saxi. Pointing out your backpedaling isn't ranting. You used to be sharper than this.

On those referenda, most people have expressed dissatisfaction with the arrangement, with large numbers supporting statehood. The most recent one was mere months before Maria. I'm curious how those numbers would fall now that the colony has seen how callously the federal government views their needs.

But sure, keep blaming US citizens for expecting support from the government during large scale natural disasters. Lick those boots clean, Saxi.
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Re: America Asks for Help

Postby mookiemcgee on Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:21 pm

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Re: America Asks for Help

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:39 pm

Neoteny wrote:Ah yes, the classic two paragraph rant. Criticizing the Trump administration isn't ranting, Saxi. Pointing out your backpedaling isn't ranting. You used to be sharper than this.

On those referenda, most people have expressed dissatisfaction with the arrangement, with large numbers supporting statehood. The most recent one was mere months before Maria. I'm curious how those numbers would fall now that the colony has seen how callously the federal government views their needs.

But sure, keep blaming US citizens for expecting support from the government during large scale natural disasters. Lick those boots clean, Saxi.


Puerto Rico is not an incorporated territory of the United States. Puerto Ricans in Florida or Texas receive relief from the USG. Those in Cameroon, Puerto Rico, or Mars may not receive the same level of service.

The Puerto Rican people have democratically expressed they prefer the current arrangement by which they don't pay income tax. You can't wait until after your house burns down to buy insurance.
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Re: America Asks for Help

Postby Neoteny on Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:56 pm

Glad to see the lengths you will go to justify the suffering of hundreds of thousands of American citizens Saxi. Real pleased we had this talk. This is neoliberal politics writ small, but saying the quiet part loud.
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Re: America Asks for Help

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:10 pm



I'm not sure. On the one hand, it arguably protects the United States domestically from terrorist attacks. On the other hand, one of those hadn't happened since 2001.
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Re: America Asks for Help

Postby MeDeFe on Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:34 pm

thegreekdog wrote:

I'm not sure. On the one hand, it arguably protects the United States domestically from terrorist attacks. On the other hand, one of those hadn't happened since 2001.

Maybe because of letters like that? Also drone strikes directed from countries other than the USA (Germany), and other countries losing more soldiers per capita than the US in the "war against terror" (Denmark). I'd argue that claiming there has been a military attack against you under NATO agreements when a non-government-terrorist-organisation attacked you counts as asking for help.
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Re: America Asks for Help

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:32 pm

MeDeFe wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:

I'm not sure. On the one hand, it arguably protects the United States domestically from terrorist attacks. On the other hand, one of those hadn't happened since 2001.

Maybe because of letters like that? Also drone strikes directed from countries other than the USA (Germany), and other countries losing more soldiers per capita than the US in the "war against terror" (Denmark). I'd argue that claiming there has been a military attack against you under NATO agreements when a non-government-terrorist-organisation attacked you counts as asking for help.


I'm convinced. Added. Updated list:

- California forest fires
- Mexico giving water to Puerto Rico (let's just assume someone in the US asked)
- French assistance with American revolution
- ISIS combat assistance
- Demanding Mexico help build "the wall"
Last edited by thegreekdog on Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: America Asks for Help

Postby mookiemcgee on Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:25 pm

I thought you were also adding us 'asking' Mexico to build our wall (if they pay for it though, wouldn't it just be their wall?)
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Re: America Asks for Help

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:28 pm

Neoteny wrote:Glad to see the lengths you will go to justify the suffering of hundreds of thousands of American citizens Saxi. Real pleased we had this talk. This is neoliberal politics writ small, but saying the quiet part loud.


The USG gave equal consideration to the relief needs of all of its citizens and the infrastructure needs of all of its incorporated territory.

Non-citizens (e.g. Kuwaitis, Bolivians) may receive less relief than citizens (e.g. Texans, Puerto Ricans). Unincorporated territory (e.g. New Zealand, Puerto Rico) may also receive less infrastructure support than incorporated territory (e.g. Maine, Hawaii).

Fifty-four percent of the U.S. citizens of Puerto Rico expressed a desire not to have the territory of Puerto Rico incorporated into the United States in 2012, deciding they would rather not have to pay income tax or be bound by certain aspects of the Bill of Rights. It's no different than my neighbor deciding they would rather have an extra $150/month to spend on vodka and heroin than buy car insurance. He gets to party more every month than me, but if his car gets wrecked he's SOL. The Puerto Ricans have as much a right to determine their individual and collective priorities as my neighbor.

I respect the right of Puerto Ricans to choose rum and women over a functioning civil defense office. As a progressive, I am unwilling to impose my Gothic values of preparedness on them.
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Re: America Asks for Help

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:32 pm

mookiemcgee wrote:I thought you were also adding us 'asking' Mexico to build our wall (if they pay for it though, wouldn't it just be their wall?)


You're right; sorry. I've edited.
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