America Asks for Help

[HitRed]

I've always been fascinated by people in the US saying "we saved Frances in World War 2" but ignoring that it took the surprise attack of Japan on the United States and then a declaration of war by Germany before the US even got involved.

I don't understand you at all. If someone saves your life just be grateful.

I'm viewing it from the savior's side. A short parable:

Three men live comfortable in a neighborhood, each in their own house. The first man decides to make aggressive remarks to the second man. The third man disapproves but also really has no quarrel with and kind of likes the first man. The first man then punches the second man in the face repeatedly until the second man is unconscious. The third man again disapproves but is too busy or likes the first man too much to do anything about it. Then, a couple of years after the second man has been unconscious, the first man punches the third man in the face. At this point, the third man beats up the first man and takes the second man to the hospital.

Yes, the second man should grateful to the third man for taking him to the hospital. But the third man should not brag about taking the second man to the hospital given that it took a couple of years and a punch in the face from the first man for the third man to act.

So the third man had an obligation to protect the 2nd man?

No, but the third man should not constantly pound his chest that he helped the second man (after two years and getting attacked by the first man).

The Atlantic Wall was formidable. Germany had many Panzer groups in France and Rommel. The Allies (England, Canada and USA) achieved the almost impossible at substantial risk. Quite an accomplishment. Pride or bragging justified.

[saxitoxin]

GD- after 9/11 the US invoked article 5 in the NATO agreement asking for help. The other NATO countries helped. A lot of good people died, or were seriously hurt fighting to protect the US.

You should be less quick to dismiss the contributions of allies simply because they're foreign.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_casualties_in_Afghanistan

The war in Afghanistan was not a result of Article V.

When the US invoked Article V it was to help secure US airspace after 9/11. "NATO" (AKA the U.S. foreign legion) replied by providing four AWACS aircraft from the NATO HQ Early Warning Force (https://awacs.nato.int/) that were alliance-owned, German-based, and Luxembourgish-registered. However, a couple notes:

1- the aircraft in question were designed by Americans, and built by Americans (by Boeing)
2- a majority of the construction cost was provided through a U.S. congressional appropriation
3- the aircraft in question were piloted by crews composed of a majority of Americans
4- the aircraft in question were committed under the orders of NATO's Supreme Allied Commander Europe, an American general

So, the "assistance" NATO provided was really a legal fiction. NATO is the U.S.' foreign legion. Had NATO not existed, those four aircraft and their crews would still have been available, they would just have been U.S.-flagged.

[Neoteny]

Hot take: Rommel was not the Fox the English made him out to be to cover their losses in Africa.

Take that is super chilled but the western Allies can't seem to get: the Soviets bear the brunt of the responsibility for breaking the Wehrmacht. The western front was liberated with due heroism by the contributions of the US and England, but on the backs (and bodies) of millions of Soviets. The US can take pride in doing the dirty work in France, but to brag about saving France is to ignore what happened in the east.

If we wanted to be extremely reductionist, Hitler's decision to turn toward Russia is what saved France. The Allies just capitalized on his mistake.

[saxitoxin]

Hot take: Rommel was not the Fox the English made him out to be to cover their losses in Africa.

Take that is super chilled but the western Allies can't seem to get: the Soviets bear the brunt of the responsibility for breaking the Wehrmacht. The western front was liberated with due heroism by the contributions of the US and England, but on the backs (and bodies) of millions of Soviets. The US can take pride in doing the dirty work in France, but to brag about saving France is to ignore what happened in the east.

If we wanted to be extremely reductionist, Hitler's decision to turn toward Russia is what saved France. The Allies just capitalized on his mistake.

correct

the Russian people saved the world from Nazism; they and their duly chosen leaders deserve greater respect from the west

[HitRed]

Eastern Front 2,124,352
North: Norway/Finland 21,796
Southwest: N Africa/Italy 244,731
Southeast: Balkans 34,040
West: France/Belgium 516,757

German losses by theater

[thegreekdog]

Hot take: Rommel was not the Fox the English made him out to be to cover their losses in Africa.

Take that is super chilled but the western Allies can't seem to get: the Soviets bear the brunt of the responsibility for breaking the Wehrmacht. The western front was liberated with due heroism by the contributions of the US and England, but on the backs (and bodies) of millions of Soviets. The US can take pride in doing the dirty work in France, but to brag about saving France is to ignore what happened in the east.

If we wanted to be extremely reductionist, Hitler's decision to turn toward Russia is what saved France. The Allies just capitalized on his mistake.

Maybe it's because I'm not in Russia, but I don't hear a lot of Russians telling the French/English "We saved your ass in WWII" whereas I hear that more on the US side of things.

[armati]

Some of the mistakes Adolf made were so obvious ya gotta wonder if they wernt intentional.

Maybe it can all be attributed to Adolf being a meth head.

[King_Herpes]

Some of the mistakes Adolf made were so obvious ya gotta wonder if they wernt intentional.

Maybe it can all be attributed to Adolf being a meth head.

I'd blame satanism and the misleading power of crowd standing orgasms before a tiny bit of meth.



My name is Sofia.

[armati]

Nazi propaganda portrayed Hitler as a "health nut" but he was secretly addicted to opiates
https://youtu.be/6lMzwl5Dfaw

Possible intentional minor hindrances would be not manufacturing the assault rifle stg 44, the me 262 and preventing Guderian from capturing the remaining french forces and the entire b.e.f. and those coulda been before the meth.lol

[thegreekdog]

Germany was probably looking at recent history (e.g. Russian performance in World War One and Russian performance against Finland). Plus other countries were defeated between 3 days (Denmark) and a couple of months (France - which arguably had the best army in Europe at the time). Plus the initial attack was apparently a complete surprise. Non-German militaries (e.g. UK, US) had the Soviets falling in anywhere from 10 days to 3 months. That being said, hindsight being 20/20, the German invasion seemed like a really stupid idea.

[DoomYoshi]

From firefighters to Godwin's law.

[tfh182]

Good point.. what I do not understand is why not give all those kids in the dentition centers down in Texas something positive for them to do. Trump should use them as child labor. Hell we have to fed them give them food and shelter... and everybody knows that kids need exercise.

Another point to consider is their mental well being. Helping to build the wall would make them all feel good about themselves.

I am not saying to work them 12hours and day but a good ten hours of hard work never hurt anyone.

[mookiemcgee]

Good point.. what I do not understand is why not give all those kids in the dentition centers down in Texas something positive for them to do. Trump should use them as child labor. Hell we have to fed them give them food and shelter... and everybody knows that kids need exercise.

Another point to consider is their mental well being. Helping to build the wall would make them all feel good about themselves.

I am not saying to work them 12hours and day but a good ten hours of hard work never hurt anyone.

I hear a wall needs building...