Speech Discussion

[thegreekdog]

I'm going to post a few links from recent news. What I'd like to discuss is whether we think any of these things are good (or bad) independently and then whether we think they are good or bad taken together.

(1) James Gunn (director) fired from Disney for tweets.

https://www.vox.com/2018/7/20/17596506/ ... -guardians

(2) Backlash on Sarah Jeong tweets surfacing after getting on NYT editorial board; she was not fired or removed.

https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/02/media/ ... index.html

(3) Alex Jones (political commentator) banned from various social media platforms.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/06/tech ... otify.html

(4) Kevin Williamson (political commentator) fired from The Atlantic

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/05/busi ... antic.html

(5) Trump supporters yelling at Jim Acosta (CNN reporter)

https://variety.com/2018/politics/news/ ... 202891883/

(6) Protestors yelling at conservative commentators and politicians

https://nypost.com/2018/07/08/protester ... estaurant/

I've tried as best I can to stay away from politicized or editorialized rhetoric within the actual links. I'd also like to try as best we can do stay away from first amendment arguments since in none of these cases is the government acting to prohibit speech. This is merely whether certain types of speech (e.g. protesting someone who is eating) are appropriate or should have negative consequences (e.g. not being hired by NYT editorial board).

[Neoteny]

Don't have time to read all the articles, but here are my feelings based on what I recall:

1) mixed, I'm against punishing people's livelihoods for shitty jokes, but I expect he's got plenty of money, so it's hard to muster much pity.

2)bad, she's shitty but can still do her job

3)good, fascist mouthpieces are the exception to the "keep your job" rule,but he's not even losing a job, just access to a private medium

4)bad, he sucks, but if you didn't know that going in, it's your fault, not his

5)good, anyone yelling at CNN or other major profit-motivated media outlets is great

6)good, getting yelled at should be expected for politicians and media who do their job poorly. If you're legislating or defending fascism, you're going to need to expect it a little more than others

[Dukasaur]

(1) James Gunn (director) fired from Disney for tweets.

https://www.vox.com/2018/7/20/17596506/ ... -guardians

Generally bad. I don't like the assault on humour that is going on in the world. For a long time humour was seen as immune to ordinary taboo. That immunity is being broken down, and I don't like it.

On the other hand, given that Disney has a certain image that it keeps polished at enormous effort and expense, this story isn't particularly surprising.

(2) Backlash on Sarah Jeong tweets surfacing after getting on NYT editorial board; she was not fired or removed.

https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/02/media/ ... index.html

Generally good. I'm glad they're defending her, for much the same reason. The jokes she made are quite obviously jokes, and again, I think huour should be immune to ordinary taboo.

On the other hand, I do wonder if they would defend her as hard (if at all) if she was a righty instead of a lefty.

(3) Alex Jones (political commentator) banned from various social media platforms.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/06/tech ... otify.html

Mostly good. The man is a cancer. I accept his right to publish his crap on his own website, but it's good to cull him from mainstream platforms where he can find new suckers.

On the other hand, I think this is a high-profile bloodletting to conceal the fact that YouTube et al use search and "recommendation" algorithms that reward extremism. Publicly knock off one madman, while 1000 others take his place.

I read an article a few months ago that no matter where one starts on YouTube, one will within a finite number of clicks end up with a video showing that Hilary Clinton is a lizard man or something of that sort. As long as the algorithms reward immoderation, there will be a new Alex groupie launching every day. If YouTube really wanted to make a difference, they would reformat their site so that extremist videos are paired with videos showing opposing viewpoints. This would do a lot more good in the long run.

(4) Kevin Williamson (political commentator) fired from The Atlantic

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/05/busi ... antic.html

Pretty bad.

I don't agree with his views, but from what I've seen he seems to be coherent and rational. I think one has a lot more to learn from debating those with opposing viewpoints than from listening to an orchestra of self-validation. The Atlantic is generally pretty good at respecting a wide range of opinions; it's unfortunate they couldn't keep their cool on this one.

(5) Trump supporters yelling at Jim Acosta (CNN reporter)

https://variety.com/2018/politics/news/ ... 202891883/

Terrible. One of the worst things Trump has done is poison the well of public discourse with "fake news" and other slanders instead of responding to his detractors in any kind of honest fashion.

I'll go no further; this comes dangerously close to triggering a purely political response.

(6) Protestors yelling at conservative commentators and politicians

https://nypost.com/2018/07/08/protester ... estaurant/

Bad. This kind of boorish behaviour contributes nothing to the discourse.

Legitimate protest is great, but I don't think personal harassment is really a legitimate form of protest.

I'm going to post a few links from recent news. What I'd like to discuss is whether we think any of these things are good (or bad) independently and then whether we think they are good or bad taken together.

My list is three unequivocal bads, one equivocal bad, and two equivocal goods.

Overall, I'd say we're going in the wrong direction.

[HitRed]

I'm into news not people.

White House Press Corp. If news is Who, What, Why, When, Where and How...you should never know the name of any reporter. Jim A. has made himself the news. In short, report the story don't make it. If you want to be a commentator then Jim you might get your own show.

NPR (National Public Radio) does get some funding from the US government. In my mind they shouldn't be political at all but their story's are 92+% negative Trump. If 46 % of voters voted for Trump then at least make 46% of your interviewees be positive administration. If someone is joining a militia NPR will have them on. Sad.

I have no issue with Fox or CNN commentators.

The rest of these people I don't know.

[Symmetry]

I'm into news not people.

White House Press Corp. If news is Who, What, Why, When, Where and How...you should never know the name of any reporter. Jim A. has made himself the news. In short, report the story don't make it. If you want to be a commentator then Jim you might get your own show.

NPR (National Public Radio) does get some funding from the US government. In my mind they shouldn't be political at all but their story's are 92+% negative Trump. If 46 % of voters voted for Trump then at least make 46% of your interviewees be positive administration. If someone is joining a militia NPR will have them on. Sad.

I have no issue with Fox or CNN commentators.

The rest of these people I don't know.

This is a ridiculous idea on a huge number of levels.

Should they take a popularity poll on Trump every time they want to report the news? Just absurd.

It's a false idea of "balance". As if the other side of an argument is always equally weighted. It's the kind of intellectual cop-out that helped get Trump elected.

[Symmetry]

I'm going to post a few links from recent news. What I'd like to discuss is whether we think any of these things are good (or bad) independently and then whether we think they are good or bad taken together.

(1) James Gunn (director) fired from Disney for tweets.

https://www.vox.com/2018/7/20/17596506/ ... -guardians

(2) Backlash on Sarah Jeong tweets surfacing after getting on NYT editorial board; she was not fired or removed.

https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/02/media/ ... index.html

(3) Alex Jones (political commentator) banned from various social media platforms.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/06/tech ... otify.html

(4) Kevin Williamson (political commentator) fired from The Atlantic

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/05/busi ... antic.html

(5) Trump supporters yelling at Jim Acosta (CNN reporter)

https://variety.com/2018/politics/news/ ... 202891883/

(6) Protestors yelling at conservative commentators and politicians

https://nypost.com/2018/07/08/protester ... estaurant/

I've tried as best I can to stay away from politicized or editorialized rhetoric within the actual links. I'd also like to try as best we can do stay away from first amendment arguments since in none of these cases is the government acting to prohibit speech. This is merely whether certain types of speech (e.g. protesting someone who is eating) are appropriate or should have negative consequences (e.g. not being hired by NYT editorial board).

1) Seems wrong
2) I agree with Andrew Sullivan for the most part.
3) Trolling the parents of a murdered kid. He can do that on his own site.
4) I have a lot of respect for Jeff Goldberg, I think he made the right call, and did so fairly.
5) A president encouraging his supporters to target journalists disturbs me.
6) Protests tend to involve a bit of yelling.

[notyou2]

I'm into news not people.

White House Press Corp. If news is Who, What, Why, When, Where and How...you should never know the name of any reporter. Jim A. has made himself the news. In short, report the story don't make it. If you want to be a commentator then Jim you might get your own show.

NPR (National Public Radio) does get some funding from the US government. In my mind they shouldn't be political at all but their story's are 92+% negative Trump. If 46 % of voters voted for Trump then at least make 46% of your interviewees be positive administration. If someone is joining a militia NPR will have them on. Sad.

I have no issue with Fox or CNN commentators.

The rest of these people I don't know.

The press needs to be free and unfettered, especially if it's public money.

[mookiemcgee]

I'm into news not people.

White House Press Corp. If news is Who, What, Why, When, Where and How...you should never know the name of any reporter. Jim A. has made himself the news. In short, report the story don't make it. If you want to be a commentator then Jim you might get your own show.

NPR (National Public Radio) does get some funding from the US government. In my mind they shouldn't be political at all but their story's are 92+% negative Trump. If 46 % of voters voted for Trump then at least make 46% of your interviewees be positive administration. If someone is joining a militia NPR will have them on. Sad.

I have no issue with Fox or CNN commentators.

The rest of these people I don't know.

The press needs to be free and unfettered, especially if it's public money.

2% of it's budget comes from the federal gov't. I'd say it's at least 2% less biased than it's private competition.

[armati]

Just cause I noticed cnn was mentioned.

WTH!!! The World MUST SEE What CNN Just Got Caught Doing!!
from HighImpactVlogs: https://youtu.be/tBZBkA0elaQ

I think people here know I think the media is just the propaganda arm of the mic

Conan O'Brien EXPOSES our PHONY FAKE NEWS SCRIPTED ...
https://youtu.be/PLXQ0qbq6jY

Like Alex Jones or not the censure ship can not be denied. (smells like a little fascism)

Facebook Censors Benghazi Hero After He Is Interviewed By Infowars
https://www.sgtreport.com/2018/08/faceb ... -infowars/

Its not just A Jones that has been shut down, how about that evil and disrespectful guy Ron Paul being banned from twitter.
How dare he talk peace and balanced budgets, treasonous dog. lol

Daniel Mcadams as well, you just know those guys are secretly plotting the overthrow of Israel and their american brain dead goyim. lol

Pretty obvious the censure ship will continue and expand.
Too much info really just confuses goyim anyway.