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Colin Kaepernick, the new face of Nike

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Re: Colin Kaepernick, the new face of Nike

Postby Dukasaur on Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:30 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:There's quite a bit of doubt that he was on track for hall of fame. First, a couple of games aren't indicative of hall of fame status, even a few good seasons aren't enough. Even winning a Super Bowl wont guarantee it (Jim Plunkett won it twice and never made it in). Second, as I stated way back, kap is known as a rusher, and that's just not popular right now at the NFL level (where the trend is towards more shotgun and throwing on every down, including first and fourth). He always runs about 10-25% of his plays. That's a fast track to the ER, not the HoF*. Third, there is the craziness about a toxic locker room. Usually that stuff is kept secret, but SF was very public. Either Kap led a mutiny or he let it go on. Either way, a quarterback is more than just an arm, he's also supposed to be a leader.

I won't rule out HoF in an alternate timeline. Players have been benched and even cut from teams to go on to HoF careers. Keep in mind how tough it is to get into Canton. There are 53 players per roster and 32 games for around 1600 active players. Representing 100 years of football, there are just over 300 players in the hall of fame.

*the quarterback is often the most expensive and irreplaceable player on the team. Why a coach would build an offense around rushing this guy through 300+ pounders instead of in the safety of the pocket is beyond me.

The only reason I cited those two games are because they were his last two games. This counters the claims of his detractors that he was on a downward spiral. He may have had some bad games in 2016, but he continued to have good games right up to the end.

His running is what made him famous, for sure, but in fact his passing numbers were very solid. He had a passer rating of 90.7 in his final season and 88.9 in his professional career. If that 88.9 had continued for more years, it would rank him 14th in the HoF. Granted, as you say there are no guarantees, but he would not be out of place there.

As for the advisability of expensive QBs running, I started wondering about this. Is it really more dangerous to run at a 300 pounder, or is it better to hide in the pocket until the 300 pounder comes and jumps on you? Intuitively, I figured that being able to run may in fact be the safer option -- the further you break out downfield, the more likely you are to be tackled by the legs and able to roll with the impact, rather than having impacts to the upper body that can't really be rolled with. Not being an expert, I decided to google it and see if anyone has studied it. Sure enough, I found THIS article which describes a study on exactly this. In fact, they pronounced a "myth" the conventional wisdom that running quarterbacks are more likely to get injured. They found no statistically-significant difference, but if anything, the fleet-footed QB who can move out of the crush zone is less likely to be injured than his pocket-turtle counterpart.

In any case, it's not necessary to use every tool, only to have it available when it's suitable. A running quarterback doesn't have to run all the time; he only has to run when the situation calls for it. It's similar to rushing in general: a game can be won without any rushing at all, but if the opponents know you can't rush, then they can easily shut down your passing game too.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick, the new face of Nike

Postby thegreekdog on Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:56 pm

A running QB is not a liability - there have been (and are) a number of highly productive quarterbacks who can also run. The issue is not whether a QB can run; the issue is whether the QB runs through his receiver progressions and then runs or, alternatively, when his first option isn't open he then runs (i.e. does not run through his receiver progression). Randall Cunningham is an example of a QB (who did not get proper coaching) who would run at any time. Donovan McNabb is an example of a QB who would go through his progressions and then run. Neither of those guys are hall of famers. Cunningham was arguably better than Kaepernick (I'm a big fan of Cunningham). McNabb definitively was better than Kaepernick. Other successful running QBs include Steve Young (hall of fame), John Elway (hall of fame), Fran Tarkenton (hall of fame). Current successful running QBs include Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Cam Newton, Carson Wentz, Dak Prescott, Alex Smith, and a few others.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick, the new face of Nike

Postby riskllama on Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:22 pm

Dukasaur wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:There's quite a bit of doubt that he was on track for hall of fame. First, a couple of games aren't indicative of hall of fame status, even a few good seasons aren't enough. Even winning a Super Bowl wont guarantee it (Jim Plunkett won it twice and never made it in). Second, as I stated way back, kap is known as a rusher, and that's just not popular right now at the NFL level (where the trend is towards more shotgun and throwing on every down, including first and fourth). He always runs about 10-25% of his plays. That's a fast track to the ER, not the HoF*. Third, there is the craziness about a toxic locker room. Usually that stuff is kept secret, but SF was very public. Either Kap led a mutiny or he let it go on. Either way, a quarterback is more than just an arm, he's also supposed to be a leader.

I won't rule out HoF in an alternate timeline. Players have been benched and even cut from teams to go on to HoF careers. Keep in mind how tough it is to get into Canton. There are 53 players per roster and 32 games for around 1600 active players. Representing 100 years of football, there are just over 300 players in the hall of fame.

*the quarterback is often the most expensive and irreplaceable player on the team. Why a coach would build an offense around rushing this guy through 300+ pounders instead of in the safety of the pocket is beyond me.

The only reason I cited those two games are because they were his last two games. This counters the claims of his detractors that he was on a downward spiral. He may have had some bad games in 2016, but he continued to have good games right up to the end.

His running is what made him famous, for sure, but in fact his passing numbers were very solid. He had a passer rating of 90.7 in his final season and 88.9 in his professional career. If that 88.9 had continued for more years, it would rank him 14th in the HoF. Granted, as you say there are no guarantees, but he would not be out of place there.

As for the advisability of expensive QBs running, I started wondering about this. Is it really more dangerous to run at a 300 pounder, or is it better to hide in the pocket until the 300 pounder comes and jumps on you? Intuitively, I figured that being able to run may in fact be the safer option -- the further you break out downfield, the more likely you are to be tackled by the legs and able to roll with the impact, rather than having impacts to the upper body that can't really be rolled with. Not being an expert, I decided to google it and see if anyone has studied it. Sure enough, I found THIS article which describes a study on exactly this. In fact, they pronounced a "myth" the conventional wisdom that running quarterbacks are more likely to get injured. They found no statistically-significant difference, but if anything, the fleet-footed QB who can move out of the crush zone is less likely to be injured than his pocket-turtle counterpart.

In any case, it's not necessary to use every tool, only to have it available when it's suitable. A running quarterback doesn't have to run all the time; he only has to run when the situation calls for it. It's similar to rushing in general: a game can be won without any rushing at all, but if the opponents know you can't rush, then they can easily shut down your passing game too.


good post, duk... :)
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Re: Colin Kaepernick, the new face of Nike

Postby mookiemcgee on Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:15 pm

Dukasaur wrote:As for the advisability of expensive QBs running, I started wondering about this. Is it really more dangerous to run at a 300 pounder, or is it better to hide in the pocket until the 300 pounder comes and jumps on you? Intuitively, I figured that being able to run may in fact be the safer option -- the further you break out downfield, the more likely you are to be tackled by the legs and able to roll with the impact, rather than having impacts to the upper body that can't really be rolled with. Not being an expert, I decided to google it and see if anyone has studied it. Sure enough, I found THIS article which describes a study on exactly this. In fact, they pronounced a "myth" the conventional wisdom that running quarterbacks are more likely to get injured. They found no statistically-significant difference, but if anything, the fleet-footed QB who can move out of the crush zone is less likely to be injured than his pocket-turtle counterpart.



This might be accurate in reference to injury, however QB's that run and are prone to improvising tend to fumble and throw poor quality passes more often. To some degree it's a matter of controlling the game. Also QB's hit in the pocket are considered safer (maybe not on an injury or personal level), but if hit a second too late thy often draw penalties that are good for 15 years and a first down. QBs that are hit while running downfield or out of the pocket can be hit harder and are less likely to see a hit coming, which is why post pro coaching staff had gone away from QB's like Kap. Mobility is a nice thing to have, but QB's in the NFL are taught to use it sparingly. Kap never used it sparingly.

Also taking one single stat and saying a player could have been in the hall of fame with those numbers is silly. First of all your comparing different eras. So let's compare him to other QB's in each of his final 3 seasons. 2014 - He was 20th in the league. 2015 he was 31st in the league. 2016 he was 16th however I believe this was the season he was benched?

Passer rating doesn't factor in how often you are sacked, and doesn't compensate for passes purposely thrown out of bounds. Pocket Qb's are trained to throw the ball away in certain blitz situations (which hurts QBR), Kap would just get sacked or run around for no gain while taking a hit. I think in his 2014 season he was either the most sacked or the second most sacked QB in the league. Saying he was HOF material is ridiculous. His QBR was in worse than half of the Qbs that were active the last 3 seasons he played.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick, the new face of Nike

Postby Symmetry on Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:08 pm

It's fascinating how people are trying to convince themselves and each other that Kaepernick's blacklisting from the NFL wasn't and isn't about his protest.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick, the new face of Nike

Postby DoomYoshi on Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:04 am

Dukasaur wrote:
In any case, it's not necessary to use every tool, only to have it available when it's suitable. A running quarterback doesn't have to run all the time; he only has to run when the situation calls for it. It's similar to rushing in general: a game can be won without any rushing at all, but if the opponents know you can't rush, then they can easily shut down your passing game too.


This is a flim-flam argument. That's not what we're talking about... it's not that other quarterbacks can't run; it's just they don't base their choices on a run-first approach.

Regarding the research... numbers can show a lot of things. Running backs are the second-most injured players and rarely make it past 30. It's not about statistics, it's about physics... the faster you are going, the more the tackle hurts.

thegreekdog wrote:A running QB is not a liability - there have been (and are) a number of highly productive quarterbacks who can also run. The issue is not whether a QB can run; the issue is whether the QB runs through his receiver progressions and then runs or, alternatively, when his first option isn't open he then runs (i.e. does not run through his receiver progression). Randall Cunningham is an example of a QB (who did not get proper coaching) who would run at any time. Donovan McNabb is an example of a QB who would go through his progressions and then run. Neither of those guys are hall of famers. Cunningham was arguably better than Kaepernick (I'm a big fan of Cunningham). McNabb definitively was better than Kaepernick. Other successful running QBs include Steve Young (hall of fame), John Elway (hall of fame), Fran Tarkenton (hall of fame). Current successful running QBs include Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Cam Newton, Carson Wentz, Dak Prescott, Alex Smith, and a few others.


A-Rod is not a running quarterback. His entire offense is built around him tossing the ball. He is an extremely gifted athlete though, so when he does run, he's really good at it (and defenses are designed to stop his throws, not necessarily his runs).

Wilson's running days are in their tail end, as the run stats continue to drop.

Riverboat Ron brought in a new offensive co-ordinator this year and noted that he plans to run the Black Superman less often. Since he has a surgically repaired shoulder, they want him to take "less punishment".

Carson Wentz just missed his first superbowl because of... a running, diving play.

Dak is a huge man and can probably handle the extra running but Googling his name today all the top stories were about how he shouldn't run as much and that he felt a little more sore after 7 carries in his last game.
https://youtu.be/JvmKXSHN-s0?t=3m49s

Alex Smith is a joke. Ever since he got drafted before Rodgers, he has been a clown.

A few others might include RGIII, Mariota, Manziel... all of whom have failed to translate the college game to the pro level. The players are just a bit bigger in the NFL, and that difference adds up to a lot more pain for QBs who choose to run the ball.

mookiemcgee wrote: Also QB's hit in the pocket are considered safer (maybe not on an injury or personal level), but if hit a second too late thy often draw penalties that are good for 15 years and a first down. QBs that are hit while running downfield or out of the pocket can be hit harder and are less likely to see a hit coming, which is why post pro coaching staff had gone away from QB's like Kap.


This is especially true this year since Roughing the Passer just got more stringent. A defender must attempt to not land on a passing quarterback. If you choose not to pass the ball, you lose that.

Symmetry wrote:It's fascinating how people are trying to convince themselves and each other that Kaepernick's blacklisting from the NFL wasn't and isn't about his protest.

This entire statement is false. It isn't fascinating, people aren't trying to convince themselves of anything, and Kap (probably) wasn't blacklisted.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick, the new face of Nike

Postby elfish_lad on Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:42 pm

Manziel, sheesh, can’t even handle the CFL. A shame.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick, the new face of Nike

Postby thegreekdog on Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:48 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:This entire statement is false. It isn't fascinating, people aren't trying to convince themselves of anything, and Kap (probably) wasn't blacklisted.


There is no reason to respond to Sym in this instance. I'm on Kaepernick's side and I don't think he was blacklisted for his protests.

DoomYoshi wrote:A-Rod is not a running quarterback. His entire offense is built around him tossing the ball. He is an extremely gifted athlete though, so when he does run, he's really good at it (and defenses are designed to stop his throws, not necessarily his runs).

Wilson's running days are in their tail end, as the run stats continue to drop.

Riverboat Ron brought in a new offensive co-ordinator this year and noted that he plans to run the Black Superman less often. Since he has a surgically repaired shoulder, they want him to take "less punishment".

Carson Wentz just missed his first superbowl because of... a running, diving play.

Dak is a huge man and can probably handle the extra running but Googling his name today all the top stories were about how he shouldn't run as much and that he felt a little more sore after 7 carries in his last game.
https://youtu.be/JvmKXSHN-s0?t=3m49s

Alex Smith is a joke. Ever since he got drafted before Rodgers, he has been a clown.

A few others might include RGIII, Mariota, Manziel... all of whom have failed to translate the college game to the pro level. The players are just a bit bigger in the NFL, and that difference adds up to a lot more pain for QBs who choose to run the ball.


I'm not sure I understand your point. All of the players I mentioned are quarterbacks that can run with the football. They have all been successful. We can go back and forth on stupid details (e.g. Rodgers is a worse QB when he can't move, like last week... he's obviously still great, just not as great) but I'm absolutely right. In terms of injuries, did you know that QBs get injured in the pocket? The two best QBs in history, both of whom are not good athletes, have been injured (Tom Brady, Peyton Manning). I'll take my chances with an athletic QB who can pass, run, and read a defense; you can have the statue that can pass and read a defense. The injury comment is virtually irrelevant unless the NFL imposes a rule that a QB cannot be touched unless he crosses the line of scrimmage. Once Brady and Eli Manning retire, every QB in the league will have some sort of running ability. That's where the league is going.

Let's just take the Eagles QB situation as an example. Yes, Carson Wentz hurt his ACL on a play where he was running for a TD. He also made multiple plays with his running ability that would otherwise have been negative plays (both Washington games come to mind) and the Eagles most assuredly won games because of his athleticism. The most famous play in the Super Bowl involved a QB going out to catch a pass which involved running (Nick Foles is actually a good athlete, ex-college basketball player) and the most infamous play in the Super Bowl involved a QB going out to drop a pass which involved running (Tom Brady is a shitty athlete).
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Re: Colin Kaepernick, the new face of Nike

Postby Symmetry on Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:48 am

thegreekdog wrote:There is no reason to respond to Sym in this instance. I'm on Kaepernick's side and I don't think he was blacklisted for his protests.


TGD, there's never an obligation for people to reply to my posts and threads, but it is weird that you're telling people not to engage with me when the current line of conversation is whether you think a person was blacklisted. I found it funny anyway.

As is, the performance related evidence keeps falling apart (much like your argument that he quit to work with Nike).

Here's how Kaepernick's audition with the Seahawks went a few months ago:

Seahawks 'postpone' Colin Kaepernick audition over anthem protest stance

Money quote:
The Seattle Seahawks were all set to work out former NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick earlier this week, but rescinded the invitation after he wouldn’t say whether he plans to continue kneeling in protest during the national anthem.


Ah well, carry on, but do consider letting people decide who they listen to, eh?
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Re: Colin Kaepernick, the new face of Nike

Postby karel on Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:18 pm

he is a waste of oxygen
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Re: Colin Kaepernick, the new face of Nike

Postby mookiemcgee on Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:02 pm

Symmetry wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:There is no reason to respond to Sym in this instance. I'm on Kaepernick's side and I don't think he was blacklisted for his protests.


TGD, there's never an obligation for people to reply to my posts and threads, but it is weird that you're telling people not to engage with me when the current line of conversation is whether you think a person was blacklisted. I found it funny anyway.

As is, the performance related evidence keeps falling apart (much like your argument that he quit to work with Nike).

Here's how Kaepernick's audition with the Seahawks went a few months ago:

Seahawks 'postpone' Colin Kaepernick audition over anthem protest stance

Money quote:
The Seattle Seahawks were all set to work out former NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick earlier this week, but rescinded the invitation after he wouldn’t say whether he plans to continue kneeling in protest during the national anthem.




Money quote that goes against everything your saying taken from the same article:

"The team wasn’t so much concerned with Kaepernick’s position as it was that he didn’t seem to have a firm plan for his future, according to NFL Network’s Ian Rapoport."

If you decide you want to sue a large organization, should one of it's subsidiaries hire you when you tell them you plan to move forward with your law suit?
Last edited by mookiemcgee on Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick, the new face of Nike

Postby DoomYoshi on Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:52 pm

Let's see what Clay Matthews thinks:

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Re: Colin Kaepernick, the new face of Nike

Postby Symmetry on Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:04 pm

mookiemcgee wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:There is no reason to respond to Sym in this instance. I'm on Kaepernick's side and I don't think he was blacklisted for his protests.


TGD, there's never an obligation for people to reply to my posts and threads, but it is weird that you're telling people not to engage with me when the current line of conversation is whether you think a person was blacklisted. I found it funny anyway.

As is, the performance related evidence keeps falling apart (much like your argument that he quit to work with Nike).

Here's how Kaepernick's audition with the Seahawks went a few months ago:

Seahawks 'postpone' Colin Kaepernick audition over anthem protest stance

Money quote:
The Seattle Seahawks were all set to work out former NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick earlier this week, but rescinded the invitation after he wouldn’t say whether he plans to continue kneeling in protest during the national anthem.




Money quote that goes against everything your saying taken from the same article:

"The team wasn’t so much concerned with Kaepernick’s position as it was that he didn’t seem to have a firm plan for his future, according to NFL Network’s Ian Rapoport."

If you decide you want to sue a large organization, should one of it's subsidiaries hire you when you tell them you plan to move forward with your law suit?


Hell yeah- easy way to settle it with no admission of guilt.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick, the new face of Nike

Postby thegreekdog on Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:22 pm

Symmetry wrote:
mookiemcgee wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:There is no reason to respond to Sym in this instance. I'm on Kaepernick's side and I don't think he was blacklisted for his protests.


TGD, there's never an obligation for people to reply to my posts and threads, but it is weird that you're telling people not to engage with me when the current line of conversation is whether you think a person was blacklisted. I found it funny anyway.

As is, the performance related evidence keeps falling apart (much like your argument that he quit to work with Nike).

Here's how Kaepernick's audition with the Seahawks went a few months ago:

Seahawks 'postpone' Colin Kaepernick audition over anthem protest stance

Money quote:
The Seattle Seahawks were all set to work out former NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick earlier this week, but rescinded the invitation after he wouldn’t say whether he plans to continue kneeling in protest during the national anthem.




Money quote that goes against everything your saying taken from the same article:

"The team wasn’t so much concerned with Kaepernick’s position as it was that he didn’t seem to have a firm plan for his future, according to NFL Network’s Ian Rapoport."

If you decide you want to sue a large organization, should one of it's subsidiaries hire you when you tell them you plan to move forward with your law suit?


Hell yeah- easy way to settle it with no admission of guilt.


That's the money quote if you're a news organization looking for a good story. Otherwise it's not the money quote, as the entirety of the rest of the article shows.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick, the new face of Nike

Postby Symmetry on Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:53 pm

The problem that the NFL faces in this lawsuit, and that those who want to suggest that it was just about job performance are many.

One of the biggest, apart from the many comments by NFL leadership about how they hate Kaepernick, etc, is that they blacklisted (emphasis on the black) Eric Reid too.

Just for protesting alongside Colin Kaepernick.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick, the new face of Nike

Postby Dukasaur on Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:16 pm

The Kaepernick collusion case has been settled out-of-court. Officially, the NFL claims it won, that it didn't admit to collusion. Unofficially, it's a loss for them. This is not an organization that normally backs down. In other words, a settlement is acceptance that it would have lost if it had gone to court.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/02/colin-kaepernick-won-his-settlement-nfl/582994/
Had Kaepernick’s case gone further, there was no question that more sensitive and damaging information would have come out. Who knows what was said about Kaepernick or other players in texts and emails. Even if Kaepernick lost the case, the NFL would have been left with a significant mess.

There are some who already are criticizing Kaepernick for settling, not realizing how rare it is to see the NFL backed into a corner, especially by a player. Tom Brady, arguably the greatest quarterback ever, couldn’t beat the NFL in court. Even he eventually had to accept his four-game suspension for Deflategate in 2016.

That Kaepernick was the one to make the NFL eat crow is a special kind of karma. This is just punishment because the league incompetently handled the player protests, starting with Kaepernick, from the beginning. Had the league not been so heavy-handed in policing the protests, this issue likely would have abated sooner. Had the league ignored Trump instead of cowering to his bullying, appeasing Trump wouldn’t have become a priority. Had one league owner had the guts to sign Kaepernick, this collusion case would have been a non-starter.

But too often, the NFL has shown an embarrassing commitment to being on the wrong side of history for the sake of profits. The league settled a $1 billion class-action concussion lawsuit brought forth by former players, but in the process, the league wasted a lot of time looking absolutely foolish denying their culpability. And regardless of the money they spent trying to make the issue go away, concussions and head trauma still haven’t disappeared from the public consciousness.

I still doubt that Kaepernick ever plays in the NFL again, but the point of suing the NFL wasn’t necessarily about resuming his football career. It was about holding the league accountable for something that was entirely preventable.

Though this legal battle with Kaepernick has been resolved, he isn’t going away, either. The league will forever have to live with the fact that it was complicit in destroying someone’s career simply because he wished to bring attention to the injustices suffered by his people. If owners and Roger Goodell believe that they no longer will have to face questions about why Kaepernick isn’t in the league, they’re wrong. No matter what an arbitrator rules, how the NFL treated Kaepernick always will be the mistake they can never amend.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick, the new face of Nike

Postby mookiemcgee on Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:33 pm

Dukasaur wrote:The Kaepernick collusion case has been settled out-of-court. Officially, the NFL claims it won, that it didn't admit to collusion. Unofficially, it's a loss for them. This is not an organization that normally backs down. In other words, a settlement is acceptance that it would have lost if it had gone to court.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/02/colin-kaepernick-won-his-settlement-nfl/582994/
Had Kaepernick’s case gone further, there was no question that more sensitive and damaging information would have come out. Who knows what was said about Kaepernick or other players in texts and emails. Even if Kaepernick lost the case, the NFL would have been left with a significant mess.

There are some who already are criticizing Kaepernick for settling, not realizing how rare it is to see the NFL backed into a corner, especially by a player. Tom Brady, arguably the greatest quarterback ever, couldn’t beat the NFL in court. Even he eventually had to accept his four-game suspension for Deflategate in 2016.

That Kaepernick was the one to make the NFL eat crow is a special kind of karma. This is just punishment because the league incompetently handled the player protests, starting with Kaepernick, from the beginning. Had the league not been so heavy-handed in policing the protests, this issue likely would have abated sooner. Had the league ignored Trump instead of cowering to his bullying, appeasing Trump wouldn’t have become a priority. Had one league owner had the guts to sign Kaepernick, this collusion case would have been a non-starter.

But too often, the NFL has shown an embarrassing commitment to being on the wrong side of history for the sake of profits. The league settled a $1 billion class-action concussion lawsuit brought forth by former players, but in the process, the league wasted a lot of time looking absolutely foolish denying their culpability. And regardless of the money they spent trying to make the issue go away, concussions and head trauma still haven’t disappeared from the public consciousness.

I still doubt that Kaepernick ever plays in the NFL again, but the point of suing the NFL wasn’t necessarily about resuming his football career. It was about holding the league accountable for something that was entirely preventable.

Though this legal battle with Kaepernick has been resolved, he isn’t going away, either. The league will forever have to live with the fact that it was complicit in destroying someone’s career simply because he wished to bring attention to the injustices suffered by his people. If owners and Roger Goodell believe that they no longer will have to face questions about why Kaepernick isn’t in the league, they’re wrong. No matter what an arbitrator rules, how the NFL treated Kaepernick always will be the mistake they can never amend.


I dunno Duk, they probably made the same caluculation most corporations make against individual litigants. It's cheaper and easier to just throw money at them and require they shut up about it after they take the money. Eric Reid had a good case, Kaepernick is a blow hard who grew up rich under white parents.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick, the new face of Nike

Postby Symmetry on Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:43 pm

mookiemcgee wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:The Kaepernick collusion case has been settled out-of-court. Officially, the NFL claims it won, that it didn't admit to collusion. Unofficially, it's a loss for them. This is not an organization that normally backs down. In other words, a settlement is acceptance that it would have lost if it had gone to court.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/02/colin-kaepernick-won-his-settlement-nfl/582994/
Had Kaepernick’s case gone further, there was no question that more sensitive and damaging information would have come out. Who knows what was said about Kaepernick or other players in texts and emails. Even if Kaepernick lost the case, the NFL would have been left with a significant mess.

There are some who already are criticizing Kaepernick for settling, not realizing how rare it is to see the NFL backed into a corner, especially by a player. Tom Brady, arguably the greatest quarterback ever, couldn’t beat the NFL in court. Even he eventually had to accept his four-game suspension for Deflategate in 2016.

That Kaepernick was the one to make the NFL eat crow is a special kind of karma. This is just punishment because the league incompetently handled the player protests, starting with Kaepernick, from the beginning. Had the league not been so heavy-handed in policing the protests, this issue likely would have abated sooner. Had the league ignored Trump instead of cowering to his bullying, appeasing Trump wouldn’t have become a priority. Had one league owner had the guts to sign Kaepernick, this collusion case would have been a non-starter.

But too often, the NFL has shown an embarrassing commitment to being on the wrong side of history for the sake of profits. The league settled a $1 billion class-action concussion lawsuit brought forth by former players, but in the process, the league wasted a lot of time looking absolutely foolish denying their culpability. And regardless of the money they spent trying to make the issue go away, concussions and head trauma still haven’t disappeared from the public consciousness.

I still doubt that Kaepernick ever plays in the NFL again, but the point of suing the NFL wasn’t necessarily about resuming his football career. It was about holding the league accountable for something that was entirely preventable.

Though this legal battle with Kaepernick has been resolved, he isn’t going away, either. The league will forever have to live with the fact that it was complicit in destroying someone’s career simply because he wished to bring attention to the injustices suffered by his people. If owners and Roger Goodell believe that they no longer will have to face questions about why Kaepernick isn’t in the league, they’re wrong. No matter what an arbitrator rules, how the NFL treated Kaepernick always will be the mistake they can never amend.


I dunno Duk, they probably made the same caluculation most corporations make against individual litigants. It's cheaper and easier to just throw money at them and require they shut up about it after they take the money. Eric Reid had a good case, Kaepernick is a blow hard who grew up rich under white parents.


Nah- the NFL backed down, mate. It's not like the billionaires of the NFL couldn't afford the legal costs. They settled because they knew they'd already lost. Kaepernick is the hero on this one.
the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein
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Re: Colin Kaepernick, the new face of Nike

Postby mookiemcgee on Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:45 pm

Symmetry wrote:
mookiemcgee wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:The Kaepernick collusion case has been settled out-of-court. Officially, the NFL claims it won, that it didn't admit to collusion. Unofficially, it's a loss for them. This is not an organization that normally backs down. In other words, a settlement is acceptance that it would have lost if it had gone to court.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/02/colin-kaepernick-won-his-settlement-nfl/582994/
Had Kaepernick’s case gone further, there was no question that more sensitive and damaging information would have come out. Who knows what was said about Kaepernick or other players in texts and emails. Even if Kaepernick lost the case, the NFL would have been left with a significant mess.

There are some who already are criticizing Kaepernick for settling, not realizing how rare it is to see the NFL backed into a corner, especially by a player. Tom Brady, arguably the greatest quarterback ever, couldn’t beat the NFL in court. Even he eventually had to accept his four-game suspension for Deflategate in 2016.

That Kaepernick was the one to make the NFL eat crow is a special kind of karma. This is just punishment because the league incompetently handled the player protests, starting with Kaepernick, from the beginning. Had the league not been so heavy-handed in policing the protests, this issue likely would have abated sooner. Had the league ignored Trump instead of cowering to his bullying, appeasing Trump wouldn’t have become a priority. Had one league owner had the guts to sign Kaepernick, this collusion case would have been a non-starter.

But too often, the NFL has shown an embarrassing commitment to being on the wrong side of history for the sake of profits. The league settled a $1 billion class-action concussion lawsuit brought forth by former players, but in the process, the league wasted a lot of time looking absolutely foolish denying their culpability. And regardless of the money they spent trying to make the issue go away, concussions and head trauma still haven’t disappeared from the public consciousness.

I still doubt that Kaepernick ever plays in the NFL again, but the point of suing the NFL wasn’t necessarily about resuming his football career. It was about holding the league accountable for something that was entirely preventable.

Though this legal battle with Kaepernick has been resolved, he isn’t going away, either. The league will forever have to live with the fact that it was complicit in destroying someone’s career simply because he wished to bring attention to the injustices suffered by his people. If owners and Roger Goodell believe that they no longer will have to face questions about why Kaepernick isn’t in the league, they’re wrong. No matter what an arbitrator rules, how the NFL treated Kaepernick always will be the mistake they can never amend.


I dunno Duk, they probably made the same caluculation most corporations make against individual litigants. It's cheaper and easier to just throw money at them and require they shut up about it after they take the money. Eric Reid had a good case, Kaepernick is a blow hard who grew up rich under white parents.


Nah- the NFL backed down, mate. It's not like the billionaires of the NFL couldn't afford the legal costs. They settled because they knew they'd already lost. Kaepernick is the hero on this one.


No, Eric Reid is the hero in this one, though he won't get the credit he deserves. Kap is a fake and a blowhard. Eric Reid is a much better player at his position than Kap was. I don't expect you to understand though, since you don't watch football.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick, the new face of Nike

Postby mookiemcgee on Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:05 pm

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Re: Colin Kaepernick, the new face of Nike

Postby Bernie Sanders on Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:42 pm

mookiemcgee wrote:Image


Sure does not look Chinese to me....
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Re: Colin Kaepernick, the new face of Nike

Postby spurgistan on Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:59 pm

mookiemcgee wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
mookiemcgee wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:The Kaepernick collusion case has been settled out-of-court. Officially, the NFL claims it won, that it didn't admit to collusion. Unofficially, it's a loss for them. This is not an organization that normally backs down. In other words, a settlement is acceptance that it would have lost if it had gone to court.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/02/colin-kaepernick-won-his-settlement-nfl/582994/
Had Kaepernick’s case gone further, there was no question that more sensitive and damaging information would have come out. Who knows what was said about Kaepernick or other players in texts and emails. Even if Kaepernick lost the case, the NFL would have been left with a significant mess.

There are some who already are criticizing Kaepernick for settling, not realizing how rare it is to see the NFL backed into a corner, especially by a player. Tom Brady, arguably the greatest quarterback ever, couldn’t beat the NFL in court. Even he eventually had to accept his four-game suspension for Deflategate in 2016.

That Kaepernick was the one to make the NFL eat crow is a special kind of karma. This is just punishment because the league incompetently handled the player protests, starting with Kaepernick, from the beginning. Had the league not been so heavy-handed in policing the protests, this issue likely would have abated sooner. Had the league ignored Trump instead of cowering to his bullying, appeasing Trump wouldn’t have become a priority. Had one league owner had the guts to sign Kaepernick, this collusion case would have been a non-starter.

But too often, the NFL has shown an embarrassing commitment to being on the wrong side of history for the sake of profits. The league settled a $1 billion class-action concussion lawsuit brought forth by former players, but in the process, the league wasted a lot of time looking absolutely foolish denying their culpability. And regardless of the money they spent trying to make the issue go away, concussions and head trauma still haven’t disappeared from the public consciousness.

I still doubt that Kaepernick ever plays in the NFL again, but the point of suing the NFL wasn’t necessarily about resuming his football career. It was about holding the league accountable for something that was entirely preventable.

Though this legal battle with Kaepernick has been resolved, he isn’t going away, either. The league will forever have to live with the fact that it was complicit in destroying someone’s career simply because he wished to bring attention to the injustices suffered by his people. If owners and Roger Goodell believe that they no longer will have to face questions about why Kaepernick isn’t in the league, they’re wrong. No matter what an arbitrator rules, how the NFL treated Kaepernick always will be the mistake they can never amend.


I dunno Duk, they probably made the same caluculation most corporations make against individual litigants. It's cheaper and easier to just throw money at them and require they shut up about it after they take the money. Eric Reid had a good case, Kaepernick is a blow hard who grew up rich under white parents.


Nah- the NFL backed down, mate. It's not like the billionaires of the NFL couldn't afford the legal costs. They settled because they knew they'd already lost. Kaepernick is the hero on this one.


No, Eric Reid is the hero in this one, though he won't get the credit he deserves. Kap is a fake and a blowhard. Eric Reid is a much better player at his position than Kap was. I don't expect you to understand though, since you don't watch football.


Given the money mediocre quarterbacks get, he gave up a lot. You act as though you need to be an All-Pro to exercise free speech.
Mr_Adams wrote:You, sir, are an idiot.


Timminz wrote:By that logic, you eat babies.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick, the new face of Nike

Postby Symmetry on Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:12 pm

Indeed- it's not like Kaepernick set out to be an icon. He just knelt as a protest against an injustice that every sane person knows exists.

Weirdly, one of the scandals- VP Pence wasting tax payer dollars to protest kneeling as a first amendment right, is just a side-note in the Trump administration's corruption nowadays.
the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein
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