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thegreekdog wrote:Nike stock is down 2.6 points today.
Symmetry wrote:thegreekdog wrote:Nike stock is down 2.6 points today.
It's a long term investment, like Ali being blacklisted (emphasis on the black) from sports over his politics.
thegreekdog wrote:Symmetry wrote:thegreekdog wrote:Nike stock is down 2.6 points today.
It's a long term investment, like Ali being blacklisted (emphasis on the black) from sports over his politics.
Gross... you should avoid comparing Ali to Kaepernick. As far as I know, Ali did not get a million dollar endorsement deal.
https://nesn.com/2018/09/here-are-repor ... -contract/
I do think, long-term, this was a great move by Nike.
In 2006, Ali was paid $50 million by CKX, an entertainment and licensing firm. Through the deal, CKX received 80% of the sales generated from Ali's name and likeness.
Symmetry wrote:thegreekdog wrote:Symmetry wrote:thegreekdog wrote:Nike stock is down 2.6 points today.
It's a long term investment, like Ali being blacklisted (emphasis on the black) from sports over his politics.
Gross... you should avoid comparing Ali to Kaepernick. As far as I know, Ali did not get a million dollar endorsement deal.
https://nesn.com/2018/09/here-are-repor ... -contract/
I do think, long-term, this was a great move by Nike.
https://money.cnn.com/2016/06/04/news/muhammad-ali-brand-under-armour/index.html
Money (no pun intented) quote:In 2006, Ali was paid $50 million by CKX, an entertainment and licensing firm. Through the deal, CKX received 80% of the sales generated from Ali's name and likeness.Symmetry wrote:I sort of find it interesting that some people think that dodging the draft during Vietnam, is not as bad as kneeling before a game of football. At least Ali didn't pretend that he was avoiding going because of "bone spurs".
A higher ethics seems to be the commonplace between Ali and Kaepernick. It's not that they don't want to compete, but they won't do it if they aren't recognised.
The sports that they were involved in refused and blacklisted them during their prime under political pressure.
Nike made a smart business move, they sell more shoes, sure, but they their brand associated with one of the great sports stories of all time.
So, yeah, turns out you can still be a professional African American sports star and earn millions in endorsements even if you can't play your sport anymore.
Symmetry wrote:Ali and Kaepernick were both banned in their prime, primarily because they were black sportsmen, and they peacefully protested against a white government that forced their sport to blacklist them.
Neither of them went in to this led by the idea of future fame and fortune. They were led by their consciences. That's admirable.
For you to say that Kaepernick chose to not play for the NFL and get an endorsement deal instead, that's simply a lie, TGD. That is not admirable.
thegreekdog wrote:Ali was not banned from boxing in 2006. Ali/Kaepernick is not a valid comparison. No one was throwing endorsement money Ali's way in 1970. Kaepernick is making millions of dollars while sacrificing the ability to play football (assuming one thinks he's not playing football because of his stance on police brutality rather than on his (a) skills as a QB and (b) monetary contract demands). Ali was being tried by courts of law; Kaepernick is not. Ali did not decide not to compete, he was banned. Arguably Kaepernick made a decision not to play football. Ali's choices were (a) join the army and don't box and (b) don't box and maybe go to jail. Kaepernick's choices are (a) play football for a reduced contract and (b) don't play football and get a lucrative endorsement deal. Understanding you are in England, are you aware that other NFL athletes kneel or raise their fists or don't participate in the anthem ceremony?
I have no problem with what Kaepernick is doing; I have huge problem comparing his "sacrifice" (wherein he makes millions from Nike) to, say, Muhammad Ali's actual, real life sacrifice of his boxing career, his passport, and going through the court system due to his sincerely held religious beliefs.
thegreekdog wrote:I know you tend to denigrate sincerely held religious beliefs Sym, but I think it's rather unkind and quite close-minded and bigoted of you to compare Kaepernick to Muhammad Ali.
Symmetry wrote:thegreekdog wrote:I know you tend to denigrate sincerely held religious beliefs Sym, but I think it's rather unkind and quite close-minded and bigoted of you to compare Kaepernick to Muhammad Ali.
Going for the ad hominem attack, TGD? Really?
Do you know Kaepernick's religion? What if it involved a sincere belief in social justice? What if he believes in social justice with or without a religious motivation? Your argument relies on him knowing that he'd get an endorsement long after he was blacklisted for peacefully protesting.
HitRed wrote:Trumps edgy like Kaepernick and political like Kaepernick and fighting the government (The Deep State) like Kaepernick. Will Symm admire him too?
Symmetry wrote:HitRed wrote:Trumps edgy like Kaepernick and political like Kaepernick and fighting the government (The Deep State) like Kaepernick. Will Symm admire him too?
I'm literally in the thread when you posted that
Short answer: No
Long answer: Noo*
Pedantic answer: *No
thegreekdog wrote:Symmetry wrote:thegreekdog wrote:I know you tend to denigrate sincerely held religious beliefs Sym, but I think it's rather unkind and quite close-minded and bigoted of you to compare Kaepernick to Muhammad Ali.
Going for the ad hominem attack, TGD? Really?
Do you know Kaepernick's religion? What if it involved a sincere belief in social justice? What if he believes in social justice with or without a religious motivation? Your argument relies on him knowing that he'd get an endorsement long after he was blacklisted for peacefully protesting.
Like I said, I'm fully supportive of Colin Kaepernick's protest. In fact, I've actually participated in BLM protests. I'm just disappointed and, frankly, shocked by your comparison and what that shows about you - to favorably compare an arguably washed-up football player being paid millions of dollars by a major corporation (with questionable manufacturing practices) to an in-his-prime boxer who had sincerely held religious beliefs but had to deal with potential jail time and a lack of career to support those beliefs... it's pretty disturbing Sym. And then you go and throw in the "but Ali made millions in 2006!" factoid as if that was relevant. Disturbing.
DoomYoshi wrote:Colin Kaepernick is a well-known Christian, at least to Christians. There was an article a few years back comparing Tim Tebow and Kaepernick. Both are outspoken super-hardcore fundamentalist Christians. One is much treasured by the WASP community and one is admonished. I'm sure you can find the article if you look.
HitRed wrote:Symmetry wrote:HitRed wrote:Trumps edgy like Kaepernick and political like Kaepernick and fighting the government (The Deep State) like Kaepernick. Will Symm admire him too?
I'm literally in the thread when you posted that
Short answer: No
Long answer: Noo*
Pedantic answer: *No
They're both fighting the system. Both are OUTSIDERS.
Symmetry wrote:thegreekdog wrote:Symmetry wrote:thegreekdog wrote:I know you tend to denigrate sincerely held religious beliefs Sym, but I think it's rather unkind and quite close-minded and bigoted of you to compare Kaepernick to Muhammad Ali.
Going for the ad hominem attack, TGD? Really?
Do you know Kaepernick's religion? What if it involved a sincere belief in social justice? What if he believes in social justice with or without a religious motivation? Your argument relies on him knowing that he'd get an endorsement long after he was blacklisted for peacefully protesting.
Like I said, I'm fully supportive of Colin Kaepernick's protest. In fact, I've actually participated in BLM protests. I'm just disappointed and, frankly, shocked by your comparison and what that shows about you - to favorably compare an arguably washed-up football player being paid millions of dollars by a major corporation (with questionable manufacturing practices) to an in-his-prime boxer who had sincerely held religious beliefs but had to deal with potential jail time and a lack of career to support those beliefs... it's pretty disturbing Sym. And then you go and throw in the "but Ali made millions in 2006!" factoid as if that was relevant. Disturbing.
I'm genuinely sorry that you felt disturbed by my information, or "factoid", or whatever... My intention was only to provide factual sources, rather than to leave you disturbed by reliable facts.
I am glad that you begrudgingly acknowledged that Ali faced loss of a career though. Kaepernick isn't facing jail time (although I think we can both honestly say that the current President would love to see that), but he is facing the other half of the problem, the loss of a career.
The problems that you've come across in understanding this today really aren't so dissimilar to the problems that Ali faced. Vitriolic hatred from conservatives. The idea that African Americans can't really think for themselves (how did you put it, he was "being paid"?) so nothing they say counts. The weird allegations that he wasn't good enough, as if politics didn't play a role...
DoomYoshi wrote:OK, found the article for you:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/09/24/colin-kaepernick-vs-tim-tebow-a-tale-of-two-christianities-on-its-knees/
There was a lot of commentary on this in Christian media.
DoomYoshi wrote:OK, found the article for you:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/09/24/colin-kaepernick-vs-tim-tebow-a-tale-of-two-christianities-on-its-knees/
There was a lot of commentary on this in Christian media.
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