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Facebook Has Crossed The Line

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Re: Facebook Has Crossed The Line

Postby tzor on Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:44 pm

Shannon Apple wrote:Actually, Facebook are doing the right thing. They aren't going after political posts as such, they're going after political post that are lies. I have seen some blatant misinformation going around on Facebook that people just don't bother to fact check.


Out of curiosity, did you actually FACT check that statement? :twisted:

And who fact checks the fact checkers? How many political operatives have created a "Fact check" department if for no other reason than to simply promote the presumed to be true dogmas of their own personal unsupported biases? Most fact checking sources seem to be just a not so funny equivalent of the dead parrot skit; misdirecting the actual fact that is supposed to be checked.
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Re: Facebook Has Crossed The Line

Postby 2dimes on Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:51 pm

tzor wrote:
Gold will never be worthless as it does have a lot of interesting "worth" in advanced technologies.


I believe people will just throw their silver into the streets.
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Re: Facebook Has Crossed The Line

Postby Shannon Apple on Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:36 pm

tzor wrote:
Shannon Apple wrote:Actually, Facebook are doing the right thing. They aren't going after political posts as such, they're going after political post that are lies. I have seen some blatant misinformation going around on Facebook that people just don't bother to fact check.


Out of curiosity, did you actually FACT check that statement? :twisted:

And who fact checks the fact checkers? How many political operatives have created a "Fact check" department if for no other reason than to simply promote the presumed to be true dogmas of their own personal unsupported biases? Most fact checking sources seem to be just a not so funny equivalent of the dead parrot skit; misdirecting the actual fact that is supposed to be checked.


:P Well, I don't expect FB to ever remove all of the BS. It's just not going to happen. If a large percentage of it goes away, I'll be happy.

Everytime I see a post about someone famous dying on Facebook, I fact check it before commenting on it. Many of them are hoaxes and the person is still alive and kicking. People post these things in poor taste.

They do the exact same thing to politics... make something up or exaggerate figures that will make the opposing side angry or get one over on the other side. Sit back, watch the fireworks and laugh. Troll successful. Only problem is that this does affect voting decisions because people are often stupid enough to believe that stuff.

If it's a political issue that I am interested in, I go researching to find out if it's true. It's not too hard to find a reliable source and often times, the FB posts are lies. Facebook is so full of bullshit. I have unfollowed friends who constantly share biased and untrue BS. You don't have to unfriend them, just hit the unfollow so it doesn't fill your homepage feed. They don't know when you unfollow them, so it causes no problems. I am interested only in actual facts, not stuff made up to be controversial and force opinions toward one side or the other. It's disgusting.

The world we live in right now is full of special little snowflakes (on the left AND on the right) who all influence each other into a big circle jerk of nonsense via social media.
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Re: Facebook Has Crossed The Line

Postby mrswdk on Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:02 pm

Shannon Apple wrote:
mrswdk wrote:[ If you're going to ban news sources from Facebook for distorting people's perceptions of reality, you ought to be banning pretty much every news outlet in existence.

On Facebook, they're not news sources. They're made up blogs and pages by people who want to spread misinformation. Some of the news sources like CNN and FOX are famous for inaccuracies, but the fake news on FB, really is fake news. They're not coming from any well known or even semi-reputable sources.


All I'm saying is, your complaint was that people are being given misinformation. Why draw the line at independent blogs? There are plenty of 'well known' and 'semi-reputable' sources that do just the same:

The Sun has been ordered to admit a controversial story that said one in five British Muslims had sympathy for Isis was "significantly misleading".

FOX, Channel 4 and others reprint lie that Kim Jong-Un fed his uncle to dogs:
https://www.foxnews.com/world/north-kor ... eport-says
https://www.channel4.com/news/kim-jong- ... tion-china

All sorts in the Daily Mail.

It's pretty easy to find examples of established news organisations spreading falsehoods. And as I said in my last post, politicians of all stripes regularly do so too. If your problem with those blogs is that they spread information, why are MSM and political parties okay?
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Re: Facebook Has Crossed The Line

Postby tzor on Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:48 pm

2dimes wrote:I believe people will just throw their silver into the streets.


Not as long as there are werewolves out there. :twisted:

Mind you if the fairy folk of Ireland were to make a comeback, cold wrought iron would probably at this stage of the game be more rarer and more expensive than the rare metals.
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Re: Facebook Has Crossed The Line

Postby 2dimes on Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:12 am

I think I'd rather have a nice pump action shot gun.

Armati, are you holding all your silver or selling a bit? It just broke $20 Canadian per oz.

Do you trade it back and forth or just hold it? I bought a Koala and was considering a maple leaf but have seen a lot of complaining about milk spotting. I should probably switch back to junk.
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Re: Facebook Has Crossed The Line

Postby armati on Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:55 pm

2 dimes

Phyzz is not for trading, some people do trade the gold/silver ratio but for that price doesnt matter.


I dont intend to sell any phyzz for awhile, I have always thought 2020 would be about time to start thinking of selling, altho 2019 could get interesting.
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Re: Facebook Has Crossed The Line

Postby HitRed on Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:04 pm

I've been selling US coins for years and moving heavy into Mexican silver coins. The browning of American is demographics. Long on Mexico.

Coin shops and life-long US collectors have a huge built in bias which makes them blind to the change. Everyday the white population is getting older and the influx continues even with Trump.
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Re: Facebook Has Crossed The Line

Postby 2dimes on Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:17 pm

not for trading.


I presume you don't bother with coins then. I figure since they can crash metals too easily and if it's zombie time, having phyzz just makes you a target.

I only do coins for fun. Making money trading is fun. Even though in my micro quantities, it costs more to drive over and buy/sell than I typically will profit. Like one local coin shop guy said after laughing about coin toll hunting, "you'll probably only make about five cents a hour."
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Re: Facebook Has Crossed The Line

Postby armati on Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:09 pm

I have "junk" silver. pre 1920 canadian as those are sterling, .925 silver
after 1919 or 1920 I forget, are .800 silver, american are .900 silver so I bought pre 1920 canadian.

In any case I prefer bullion, 1 once coins or bigger bars.
I'm in canada so I bought maples, if I was in the states I,d buy eagles etc, the silver is the same.

Silver is silver no matter where its from or how its "minted", when you sell silver you will get the silver price.
Numismatics is another animal.

Dont know if your interested but a pre 1920 canadian 5 cent pce is 1 gram silver.
Those are the only 1 gram silver pces I could find.
Maybe the U.S. had silver 5 cent pcs?

every 5 cents is 1 gram silver, quarter 5 grams etc.

Hitred is this what your buying?

Mexico Coin Melt Values
Coin Description Silver Weight (Troy Oz) Silver Value
1920-1945 1 Peso 0.3856 $5.93
1947-1948 1 Peso 0.2250 $3.46
1950 1 Peso 0.1286 $1.97
1957-1967 1 Peso 0.0511 $.78

The 1 oz Mexican Libertad Silver Coin is supposed to be popular.
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Re: Facebook Has Crossed The Line

Postby 2dimes on Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:45 pm

I'm late to the game so I'm a bit ignorant but it seems the Canadian older coins are higher silver content.

The maples were very popular but seem to have an issue with milk spots. Everyone is hoping they fixed it but the 2016s are having it. I wonder if it's just a natural progression toward them going black even if they are kept out of the light. I suspect there has always been milk spots.

It depends who is telling the tale, Reading comments some say, Aussie coins are terrible, some say they solved the milk spot issue, etc.. It doesn't matter what source it is, someone will bitch about them and their milk spot issues.

I don't have many but most of my dimes are US minted and pretty crappy. I have some coins that definately have zero numismatic value. One is a Morgan that I don't think is terrible but the local guy I showed it to said, it had been improperly cleaned and no longer has any value as a coin.
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Re: Facebook Has Crossed The Line

Postby armati on Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:01 pm

I recall hearing something about "milk spots" ....they are irrelevant to their value.
Maples are bullion not numismatic.

Junk silver is popular no matter where its from.

Maples,libertads,eagles,pandas,koalas,philharmonics are all bullion minted by the respective governments.

They all have the same value.

Coins minted privately are known as rounds. Mostly they are .999 from what I have seen.

If you want clean coins try getting an aluminum pan, put your coins in it, boil water and cover them with boiling water, pour lottsa salt over the coins, wait for the water to cool, then wipe them off with a clean rag/cloth.

People that use polish are rookies. lol

I clean my silverware and all coins that way.
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Re: Facebook Has Crossed The Line

Postby tzor on Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:29 pm

Why do I feel like I am at the Silver five and ten store?

It's more than just the metal. You need coins made from real engravers from respected mints with the latest engraving techniques.
Australian Wedge Tailed Eagles, even better with Mercanti's signature, is a good example.
Silver Pandas from China are also a good buy.
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Re: Facebook Has Crossed The Line

Postby 2dimes on Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:14 pm

armati wrote:Maples,libertads,eagles,pandas,koalas,philharmonics are all bullion minted by the respective governments.

They all have the same value.


Nice try. I'd like to order some Koalas from you. I paid $32 for mine at the same time my son bought a Crocodile for $28.

There are lots of people that have no idea though, so you can probably sucker someone into buying milk spotted, salt boiled, beat up maples for full MS64+ prices. I suppose one bonus is you don't have to worry about buying counterfeit or improperly cleaned stuff if everything is same same.

Where do you sell silver?
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Re: Facebook Has Crossed The Line

Postby armati on Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:01 am

The silver is the same price everywhere, you may have paid for shipping.
That might explain the price dif.
The "crock" is a round? Ive never seen one.
Rounds can be a little less than mint coins.

Mints will put out some coins they get more than spot for, thats spot price..which is what the world follows.
These coins are WAAAYY over priced, but collectors buy them.

When you buy bullion, you are buying silver, an ms 65 eagle has the same value as a scratched ..whatever...because you are paying for its weight in silver not its looks,
the guy that pays for the ms 65 on a bullion coin is the "sucker".

They ALL come ms 65 from where ever you buy them. That is if ms 65 is not proof,double struck, bullion is not double struck.

I havnt sold silver or gold in 30+ years, I have only bought, but when I do, I will sell to the dealer here that deals directly with the canadian mint.
Unless I dont sell it...I may leave it to my kids and or grandkids.

Everyone likes their metal to look nice, thats why I told you how to clean it, but you seem to be mixing up numismatic and bullion.
Obviously you dont want a spot on a numismatic coin, bullion doesnt matter in the least.
But still, if its tarnished I clean it anyway.

If someone you are selling to trys to get your bullion for less than spot for any reason, go to a reputable dealer.

The dealers will take a fee, when they sell, its a little over spot an when they buy its a little under.
Thats how they make their living. % depends on how much your buying or selling.

lol, as for koalas, I dont own any, why would I pay the shipping from australia to canada when I can buy silver here?
I suppose I might buy 1 if I saw it, just for fun, sometimes I buy different mintings.

For example I own a gold snake and a gold panda...just because, but my hoard is maples and bars.

1 oz Silver Lynx CAD Buy $21.36 Sell 1-49 CAD $26.12 1 oz
1 oz Silver Red Tail Hawk CAD Buy $21.36 Sell1-49 CAD $26.18
1 oz Silver Round CAD Buy $20.47 Sell 1-99 CAD $23.24
1 oz Silver Maple Leaf CAD Buy $21.36 Sell 1-49 CAD $24.28 50-499 $24.15 500-2999 $24.02 3000-4999 $23.89 5000+ $23.76
Prices are from dec 28 2018

This is boarder gold, a reputable dealer, notice the rounds are the cheapest,then the maples and then the "specials".
So, I might own a hawk and lynx but my main coin is a maple, I do own some rounds but I kinda like the tubes the maples come in.
Also, If Im buying a 100 or more of them I could care less about 4 onces which would be the price dif.

Anyway, happy hoarding.
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Re: Facebook Has Crossed The Line

Postby 2dimes on Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:32 pm

I consider the prices you posted to be the value of those objects at that shop, since that is how I would trade most silver, even though I purely buy for fun. I mainly like to do futile things like look for nice old or rare coins in pocket change. I typically use debit and hardly even have coins.

I do understand the difference between rounds and currency coins, for one thing it's unlikely a round will fetch the ridicules prices an actual quarter or even a penny can, currently or in the future. My point was high grade or just nice rounds are more valuable than spot value bullion currently. Even some bullion bars have added value to collectors.

I am very conservative so I would buy junk coins for investing any significant amount of money because they are easy, I can buy it at the lowest price based on silver weight and they will never lose value by becoming, tarnished, bit by a crazy person, milk spotted, cleaned, bent or scratched. I like that I can't ruin them. No matter what I do, they are still worth the same price and it is solely based on their weight. Conversely most people would buy new rounds/coins since they hope to keep them nice so they will increase in value (price).

If I buy two new rounds and store them for a few years, one stays shiny the other gets milk spots, they hold the same value to you but I would try to find someone willing to pay more for the one without spots. In my opinion it has a higher value if I can get more money for it during sale and I like more money. Milk spots are a legitimate fear as far as I am concerned. if you bought anything for $60 then it gets spots and becomes worth $20. I consider that to be a significant loss even though $40 is not enough money to buy a good bottle of whiskey.

Here is a Crocodile, I think they are rounds.
https://www.apmex.com/product/83319/201 ... ocodile-bu
I believe the 1oz Perth mint .999 silver comes in Crocodile, Koala, Kangaroo and Kukaburra. There might be more.

As tzor wrote, there is added value to a round made by a particular source. To me that makes certain rounds such as Maple Leafs, Eagles, Pandas, Elephants etc. a coin since it is a legitimate national mint product and not something tzor and I made from melted silver butter knives in a shed. We could make rounds and even stamp them .999 but the coin shop is probably only going to buy it as junk silver. They will pay more for a milk spotted Maple Leaf and even more for an MS64 Elephant.

Unless you rip someone off you almost certainly won't sell a maple leaf even graded MS70 for several hundred dollars. The right old error penny even in lower mint or circulated state might be valued over a thousand.

Getting coins graded is interesting. I watched a video about graded state coins. The guy makes a great point, sending in a quarter for grading takes courage.

Grading is somewhat subjective. You can send a slab in to get re-graded and sometimes they go up, sometimes they go down. I have watched several videos, these guys are very experienced but they don't know how a coin will grade until it comes back. An MS67 could be worth $100+ and an MS64 is worth $20, it costs $30 to get it graded.

Getting an object I bought for $32 cdn graded by PCGS for $30 us is pointless if it returns a mid or low grade and is still worth $32 cdn. One thing that made maple leafs valuable as you know is they come in a sealed capsule from the mint. That is why milk spots are so bad, they are one of the things that can happen to change the appearance of them inside a sealed capsule stored in a drawer or safe.

Having said that silver could go up in value enough that an ouch of silver makes it worth the same thousand dollars per ounce as junk silver. At that point the extra value of a premium graded coin would be tough to get since anyone that could afford it would already have bought what they wanted.

I think the face value of most silver currency coins has become pointless. I certainly agree the mints are gouging people by over pricing coins sold at the post office. Here's a $5 coin with a half ounce of silver $69.99. Also an old silver dime or quarter is not really what it was made to be anymore because even the melt value is more. That is why they are called junk silver if they are improperly cleaned, they might even be really nice but are ruined by cleaning. I'm pretty sure that is part of why people suggest boiling them as a good way to clean one without "damaging" them. They are now with less. That will increase the value of the original condition coins that are not cleaned.

The only way I can imagine buying a high value collectors coin would be if I made some money from trading junk silver or something.

I bought the koala because I had some money from Christmas and I wanted a kangaroo but they were out. It was less expensive than a baseball hat. I was going to buy a maple leaf but I might not because of the risk of milk spots. I might one day because I like them and I would like an eagle.
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Re: Facebook Has Crossed The Line

Postby armati on Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:10 pm

dime

"almost certainly won't sell a maple leaf even graded MS70 for several hundred dollars."
" almost certainly"?, I would say "not a chance" not while silver is $15.48, $21.13 canadian an once as I post this.

You were talking about grading coins, there is precise grading, not subjective at all.
There used to be a book printed every year called the Charlton, that book had exactly the grades and gave instruction as to how to grade.

I have a feeling the reason you find grading to be subjective is because the people you've seen grading dont know how to grade.

I see this on a regular basis on places such as ebay and yes the coins can come with grading "certificates" etc.
Just what collecting has become I guess.
If you ever do decide to spend significant money on a numismatic I would suggest to learn grading first.


What you really could be right about is the banks forcing us to go cashless.

Just out of interest, I just checked ebay, I bought my "junk" off ebay, I paid between 50 cents and $1 a gram including shipping.
Price seems to be $1.50 today. For 10 cent pcs anyway.
The "deals" were in "lots" or collections.

I give maples and coins to my nephews and nieces for xmas/birthdays, for example 2013 maple and 1913 coin, they find that stuff kinda special, nobody else gives em that stuff, lol.
They mighta got the new $100 dollar vid game etc but what they remember is those silver coins and I got em for maybe $25.

Silver has value. lol ;)
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Re: Facebook Has Crossed The Line

Postby 2dimes on Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:52 pm

I bought a 30th anniversary maple leaf $5 coin after lunch. That and the Koala are both 1oz .999 silver. but this is a currency coin and was $25.39 today even though silver went up. Pretty funny the face value is $5 Canadian. So now that silver is up I have invested in over fifty bucks of silver. Still no kangaroo which I was originally looking for.

I agree 99.999% with your opinion that a nice coin or round most often will have way more value long term than many things that cost more. Then again timing is part of value. If you had a perfect Nintendo console a few years ago before they re-released them it might have had more value than most silver coins.

armati wrote:You were talking about grading coins, there is precise grading, not subjective at all...
I have a feeling the reason you find grading to be subjective is because the people you've seen grading dont know how to grade.


No I don't mean a random guy at a flea market. I am writing about the most respected grading companies, the main two being PCGS and NGC. They should be the most precise options possible.



What I meant by subjective is you can send a coin in the slab, even a PCGS graded one, back to PCGS and get it re-graded. If the grade was not subjective, how could it change, unless the coin was damaged?



I like the slabs because an intact slab will protect an object from quite a few things. It also makes it easier for an ignoramus like me to buy what should be a nice coin from a stranger.

I did see someone on YouTube had got milk spots on an old coin that was graded and in a slab. That was part of why I am starting to wonder if milk spots have been common since humans have been purifying silver? They are just not as bad as the coin going black from light so they never used to consider it a big deal.
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Re: Facebook Has Crossed The Line

Postby armati on Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:11 pm

"Samples of the Silver Maple Leaf often carry a blemish that has a milky-white appearance, called a milk spot. This happens when a cleaning detergent is left on the coin when it goes into the annealing furnace"
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Re: Facebook Has Crossed The Line

Postby 2dimes on Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:21 am

There are lots of theories about what causes it. You can probably find someone complaining about them showing up on every type somewhere. I have seen a few, "xxxxx has solved their milk spot issue." claims too. Hopefully we will never see any.

That is why gold is so popular. I think tzor was the only person I ever saw writing about some sort of corrosion on gold.

Here is a PCGS page about eye appeal and grading.
https://www.pcgs.com/eyeappeal

Here is the video that I saw where the guy sent in a bunch of coins to be re-graded, he was the first one I watched complaining about grading being subjective, he seems pretty crabby about losing the cameo designation. Sorry it is so long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2BOkDcyLbk
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Re: Facebook Has Crossed The Line

Postby tzor on Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:10 am

2dimes wrote:That is why gold is so popular. I think tzor was the only person I ever saw writing about some sort of corrosion on gold.


I don'r recall writing one ... but that may be my old memory here.

I'm really into silver now, and the reason is that I'm "old school" D&D (and generally cheep as shit). I like the ten coins to the pound of first edition as opposed to the 50 coins to the pound of later editions. Sure fractional ounce gold coins look cool and like buttons but a good once ounce coin is still just the right size. (And don't get me started on metric, because a 1 klio coin is OMFG is that HUGE!)

But the state of the art of making coins has gone to places that were nearly impossible a few decades ago. It used to be a coin was a coin. But then came the various ways to curve and polish the coin. Then came the even harder process of striking bi-metal coins. I think the grade is important but not exceptionally so. (I think you can get easily overloaded on the WOW scale and I'll take a damn good grade over an super excellent grade because I'm cheep as shit ... did I just repeat myself ... old age.)

I think 2019 is the year when I go to the Jack Benny Vault and resort those coins for the nth time, checking out each one and going "oh" and "ah".
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Re: Facebook Has Crossed The Line

Postby armati on Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:57 pm

Not a theory dime,
"......milk spot. This happens when a cleaning detergent is left on the coin when it goes into the annealing furnace"
Thats the cause.

Dont get the people giving you other theories to grade your coins. lol

Gold is popular because it has been money for thousands of years,(It has no counter party risk) it retains purchasing power, is an insurance as well as great for jewelry. (malleable and ductile)


Gold is the most non-reactive of all metals and is benign in all natural and industrial environments.
Gold never reacts with oxygen, which means it will NOT rust or tarnish.

Another possibility as to why gold is so popular is that when the aliens arrived in Sumer they adjusted human dna to value gold so that humans would mine it for them.

I believe that story is in the Sumerian cuneiform tablets.

I like it just because its shiny. lol
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Re: Facebook Has Crossed The Line

Postby 2dimes on Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:34 pm

Fair enough if you don't believe me, I'm too dumb to know the Australian Crocodile is a one dollar coin.

Detergent doesn't make sense. If it was that simple they would stop using that detergent.

It certainly is unlucky that some guys get all the badly manufactured defect coins while other guys that store them differently never get one.

You don't think it's odd that some Morgan Dollars that never had milk spots for over a hundred years, suddenly get milk spots and it is caused by a detergent predominantly used in modern day Canada?

Nice work helping spread rumors that may devalue way over priced RCM product though.

Two hundred years ago fake gold was obvious. Now you can buy a hand held spectrometer to test it.
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Gold is still the best metal to collect even though platinum is more expensive because there is way less platinum available. Everyone knows what gold is and many people want some, that makes it easier to sell.

Do you weigh your coins? This guy is hardcore.

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