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Dangerous American aircraft blacklisted globally

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Re: Dangerous American aircraft blacklisted globally

Postby GoranZ on Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:33 pm

Boeing 737 Max is no longer dangerous... as it looks like it might be grounded indefinitely. President Trump Orders Max 737 8 Planes Grounded Indefinitely
To make the things more interesting Ethiopia Will Not Send Flight’s Black Box To U.S., Says U.S. Cannot Be Trusted

Reliable replacements on the market... Comac C919, Irkut MC-21 or few Airbus models.
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Re: Dangerous American aircraft blacklisted globally

Postby waauw on Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:18 am

GoranZ wrote:Boeing 737 Max is no longer dangerous... as it looks like it might be grounded indefinitely. President Trump Orders Max 737 8 Planes Grounded Indefinitely
To make the things more interesting Ethiopia Will Not Send Flight’s Black Box To U.S., Says U.S. Cannot Be Trusted

Reliable replacements on the market... Comac C919, Irkut MC-21 or few Airbus models.


With all due respect, but there is a reason the aerospace sector for these size planes is considered a duopoly. Neither Comac, nor Irkut can for the moment compete with the tech levels of Boeing and Airbus. In the case of Comac, they weren't even planning on competing with them yet. They knew their technological inferiority and set their targets by 2025, if I remember correctly.
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Re: Dangerous American aircraft blacklisted globally

Postby GoranZ on Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:41 am

waauw wrote:
GoranZ wrote:Boeing 737 Max is no longer dangerous... as it looks like it might be grounded indefinitely. President Trump Orders Max 737 8 Planes Grounded Indefinitely
To make the things more interesting Ethiopia Will Not Send Flight’s Black Box To U.S., Says U.S. Cannot Be Trusted

Reliable replacements on the market... Comac C919, Irkut MC-21 or few Airbus models.


With all due respect, but there is a reason the aerospace sector for these size planes is considered a duopoly. Neither Comac, nor Irkut can for the moment compete with the tech levels of Boeing and Airbus. In the case of Comac, they weren't even planning on competing with them yet. They knew their technological inferiority and set their targets by 2025, if I remember correctly.

ATM Boeing is nosediving, and alone Airbus cant meet the demand. Concerning the Chinese alternative I'm bribing mrs to be my spokesman :lol:
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Re: Dangerous American aircraft blacklisted globally

Postby Bernie Sanders on Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:49 am

GoranZ wrote:
waauw wrote:
GoranZ wrote:Boeing 737 Max is no longer dangerous... as it looks like it might be grounded indefinitely. President Trump Orders Max 737 8 Planes Grounded Indefinitely
To make the things more interesting Ethiopia Will Not Send Flight’s Black Box To U.S., Says U.S. Cannot Be Trusted

Reliable replacements on the market... Comac C919, Irkut MC-21 or few Airbus models.


With all due respect, but there is a reason the aerospace sector for these size planes is considered a duopoly. Neither Comac, nor Irkut can for the moment compete with the tech levels of Boeing and Airbus. In the case of Comac, they weren't even planning on competing with them yet. They knew their technological inferiority and set their targets by 2025, if I remember correctly.

ATM Boeing is nosediving, and alone Airbus cant meet the demand. Concerning the Chinese alternative I'm bribing mrs to be my spokesman :lol:



Your nonsense is to be expected when innocent people die.
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Re: Dangerous American aircraft blacklisted globally

Postby GoranZ on Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:06 am

Bernie Sanders wrote:
GoranZ wrote:
waauw wrote:
GoranZ wrote:Boeing 737 Max is no longer dangerous... as it looks like it might be grounded indefinitely. President Trump Orders Max 737 8 Planes Grounded Indefinitely
To make the things more interesting Ethiopia Will Not Send Flight’s Black Box To U.S., Says U.S. Cannot Be Trusted

Reliable replacements on the market... Comac C919, Irkut MC-21 or few Airbus models.


With all due respect, but there is a reason the aerospace sector for these size planes is considered a duopoly. Neither Comac, nor Irkut can for the moment compete with the tech levels of Boeing and Airbus. In the case of Comac, they weren't even planning on competing with them yet. They knew their technological inferiority and set their targets by 2025, if I remember correctly.

ATM Boeing is nosediving, and alone Airbus cant meet the demand. Concerning the Chinese alternative I'm bribing mrs to be my spokesman :lol:



Your nonsense is to be expected when innocent people die.

Innocent people died because of the greed of company from US, country where you live in ;)
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Re: Dangerous American aircraft blacklisted globally

Postby Bernie Sanders on Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:49 am

GoranZ wrote:
Bernie Sanders wrote:
GoranZ wrote:
waauw wrote:
GoranZ wrote:Boeing 737 Max is no longer dangerous... as it looks like it might be grounded indefinitely. President Trump Orders Max 737 8 Planes Grounded Indefinitely
To make the things more interesting Ethiopia Will Not Send Flight’s Black Box To U.S., Says U.S. Cannot Be Trusted

Reliable replacements on the market... Comac C919, Irkut MC-21 or few Airbus models.


With all due respect, but there is a reason the aerospace sector for these size planes is considered a duopoly. Neither Comac, nor Irkut can for the moment compete with the tech levels of Boeing and Airbus. In the case of Comac, they weren't even planning on competing with them yet. They knew their technological inferiority and set their targets by 2025, if I remember correctly.

ATM Boeing is nosediving, and alone Airbus cant meet the demand. Concerning the Chinese alternative I'm bribing mrs to be my spokesman :lol:



Your nonsense is to be expected when innocent people die.

Innocent people died because of the greed of company from US, country where you live in ;)


That's ironic coming from someone who lives in such a corrupt country as yours. I see Greece is still sticking a finger up your @ssh0le of a country.....tee-hee
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Re: Dangerous American aircraft blacklisted globally

Postby GoranZ on Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:57 pm

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Re: Dangerous American aircraft blacklisted globally

Postby Bernie Sanders on Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:35 pm




Blah-blah-blah....Boeing and Airbus makes the best and safest passenger planes in the world. Russia and China do not come close to building a world class passenger plane.

Boeing will come back from this and rise again.
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Re: Dangerous American aircraft blacklisted globally

Postby GoranZ on Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:38 pm

Bernie Sanders wrote:



Blah-blah-blah....Boeing and Airbus makes the best and safest passenger planes in the world. Russia and China do not come close to building a world class passenger plane.

Boeing will come back from this and rise again.

We both agree on Airbus but we disagree on Boeing and Irkut MC-21. I have no idea how good thew Chinese plane is, but practically no one knows, so I will not speculate :D
Back to Boeing... 737MAX is Boeing's flagship with 80% of the orders portfolio. With the issues 737MAX has no one will be surprised if cancellations arrive in large numbers. Who will replace those orders? I presume majority will be replaced by Airbus and some non neglectable numbers will go for Irkut's airplane. But the Russians plan to make ~1000 planes in the next 20 years so their capacities are limited. None the less MC-21 should not be underestimated... New Russian MC-21 Aircraft Can Compete With Boeing And Airbus Models, Analysts Say

So we can both agree that Airbus will be the overall winner in this mess =D>
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Re: Dangerous American aircraft blacklisted globally

Postby Bernie Sanders on Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:16 pm

GoranZ wrote:
Bernie Sanders wrote:



Blah-blah-blah....Boeing and Airbus makes the best and safest passenger planes in the world. Russia and China do not come close to building a world class passenger plane.

Boeing will come back from this and rise again.

We both agree on Airbus but we disagree on Boeing and Irkut MC-21. I have no idea how good thew Chinese plane is, but practically no one knows, so I will not speculate :D
Back to Boeing... 737MAX is Boeing's flagship with 80% of the orders portfolio. With the issues 737MAX has no one will be surprised if cancellations arrive in large numbers. Who will replace those orders? I presume majority will be replaced by Airbus and some non neglectable numbers will go for Irkut's airplane. But the Russians plan to make ~1000 planes in the next 20 years so their capacities are limited. None the less MC-21 should not be underestimated... New Russian MC-21 Aircraft Can Compete With Boeing And Airbus Models, Analysts Say

So we can both agree that Airbus will be the overall winner in this mess =D>


Looks like the issue is a software problem. Just like any defect part(s) in Boeing and Airbus, it will be fixed.

There's nothing in Russia or China that can compete against Boeing or Airbus.

Boeing and Airbus have excellent passenger planes.
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Re: Dangerous American aircraft blacklisted globally

Postby mookiemcgee on Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:38 am

Bernie Sanders wrote:
GoranZ wrote:
Bernie Sanders wrote:



Blah-blah-blah....Boeing and Airbus makes the best and safest passenger planes in the world. Russia and China do not come close to building a world class passenger plane.

Boeing will come back from this and rise again.

We both agree on Airbus but we disagree on Boeing and Irkut MC-21. I have no idea how good thew Chinese plane is, but practically no one knows, so I will not speculate :D
Back to Boeing... 737MAX is Boeing's flagship with 80% of the orders portfolio. With the issues 737MAX has no one will be surprised if cancellations arrive in large numbers. Who will replace those orders? I presume majority will be replaced by Airbus and some non neglectable numbers will go for Irkut's airplane. But the Russians plan to make ~1000 planes in the next 20 years so their capacities are limited. None the less MC-21 should not be underestimated... New Russian MC-21 Aircraft Can Compete With Boeing And Airbus Models, Analysts Say

So we can both agree that Airbus will be the overall winner in this mess =D>


Looks like the issue is a software problem. Just like any defect part(s) in Boeing and Airbus, it will be fixed.

There's nothing in Russia or China that can compete against Boeing or Airbus.

Boeing and Airbus have excellent passenger planes.


It's not exactly a software problem. Instead of training pilots on a key change to how the plane needed to be flown, they instead tried to do a software patch/fix to make it appear to perform like the older 737 models the pilots were used to and actually trained on. There is no issue with the plane itself, just in the rollout.... Boeing tried to do things cheap instead of right, and the airlines were very happy to not have to pay to re-train their pilots on a new system so they went along with it. Lesson learned!
Dukasaur wrote:A bonobo would have figured it out about 6 months ago.
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Re: Dangerous American aircraft blacklisted globally

Postby 2dimes on Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:20 am

mookiemcgee wrote:It's not exactly a software problem. Instead of training pilots on a key change to how the plane needed to be flown, they instead tried to do a software patch/fix to make it appear to perform like the older 737 models the pilots were used to and actually trained on. There is no issue with the plane itself, just in the rollout.... Boeing tried to do things cheap instead of right, and the airlines were very happy to not have to pay to re-train their pilots on a new system so they went along with it. Lesson learned!


Fixed.

That is what I hate about those types of planes. You don't fly them, you move the controls to ask the computer to fly them where you want to go. They are trying to make it so the company can just have a minimum wage computer msystems manager, preferably in a remote location managing several aircraft, trying to watch for a broken AOA sensor. Eventually it will happen.

It used to be normal to want well trained, qualified pilots up front. Now it makes you a conspiracy nut.
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Re: Dangerous American aircraft blacklisted globally

Postby mrswdk on Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:27 pm

Automation is great. Once upon a time something like 30-40% of people in the UK worked in agriculture, then farming was mechanised during the Industrial Revolution and pretty much all of those people went off to start doing something more productive with their time. Nowadays 80% of people in the UK work in the service sector. Ordinary citizens are now able to affordably eat out, buy decent clothes and play on their iPhone while sat on their sofa, rather than toiling in the fields all day, eating potatoes and dying aged 46.

AI and robotics are in the early stages of repeating this sort of transformation with a bunch of other jobs. Not just manual labor and basic processes like playing with data but also diagnosing patients, creating legal cases, driving cars, writing news articles.. all sorts. In 100 years kids will be learning about all those funny old-timey jobs like 'chef' and 'bus driver' and being glad they live in a better time than we did.
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Re: Dangerous American aircraft blacklisted globally

Postby 2dimes on Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:19 pm

Meh. My great grandfather toiled in his fields and made it into his 90s before retiring in Florida like God intended.

I'm not against you flying in 737 max 11s without a competent crew. I just don't want to be onboard when HAL decides to auger in.
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Re: Dangerous American aircraft blacklisted globally

Postby mrswdk on Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:42 pm

There is no crew in the world competent enough to steer one of those death traps to a safe landing.
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Re: Dangerous American aircraft blacklisted globally

Postby 2dimes on Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:23 pm

There are lots of pilots that could fly one of them.
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Re: Dangerous American aircraft blacklisted globally

Postby HitRed on Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:25 pm

Military orders are climbing fast. This plan is lethal.
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Re: Dangerous American aircraft blacklisted globally

Postby waauw on Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:25 pm

HitRed wrote:Military orders are climbing fast. This plan is lethal.


What are they going to do? Kamikaze 737's into the enemy?
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Re: Dangerous American aircraft blacklisted globally

Postby jusplay4fun on Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:12 am

Before the recent grounding of these planes:

"An estimated 8,600 flights use the plane in a typical week of travel, according to an analysis based on data from Flightradar24, a flight tracking service."

So mrswdk is CLEARLY wrong, again. Deal with the facts, not hyperbole and emotional screams of anti-American diatribes.

same source:

"The most popular routes (for the 737 max 8) are in North America and China."

So clearly the Chinese did think the airplane was worth using. Let's see what the analysis of facts present AND NOT jump to conclusions based on emotion and fear.


mrswdk wrote:There is no crew in the world competent enough to steer one of those death traps to a safe landing.
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Re: Dangerous American aircraft blacklisted globally

Postby jusplay4fun on Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:14 am

Clearly, 2dimes is one person aware of the facts; please see my previous post on this topic.

2dimes wrote:There are lots of pilots that could fly one of them.
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Re: Dangerous American aircraft blacklisted globally

Postby jusplay4fun on Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:24 am

As the investigation into the cause of the crash and the tragedy of it continues, none of us know all the facts at this time.

Let's wait for facts of careful analysis by experts in aviation and who study airplane crashes. Let's not jump to emotional, hasty, and often inaccurate conclusions of those with an anti-American agenda.

However, I have to agree that Mookie's intelligent analysis seems to be reasonable. This explanation reminds me of Ockham's razor:

Occam's razor (also Ockham's razor or Ocham's razor (Latin: novacula Occami); further known as the law of parsimony (Latin: lex parsimoniae) is the problem-solving principle that essentially states that "simpler solutions are more likely to be correct than complex ones." When presented with competing hypotheses to solve a problem, one should select the solution with the fewest assumptions. The idea is attributed to English Franciscan friar William of Ockham (c. 1287–1347), a scholastic philosopher and theologian.


by mookiemcgee on Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:38 am
It's not exactly a software problem. Instead of training pilots on a key change to how the plane needed to be flown, they instead tried to do a software patch/fix to make it appear to perform like the older 737 models the pilots were used to and actually trained on. There is no issue with the plane itself, just in the rollout.... Boeing tried to do things cheap instead of right, and the airlines were very happy to not have to pay to re-train their pilots on a new system so they went along with it. Lesson learned!
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Re: Dangerous American aircraft blacklisted globally

Postby mrswdk on Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:50 am

mrswdk wrote:There is no crew in the world competent enough to steer one of those death traps to a safe landing.


2dimes wrote:There are lots of pilots that could fly one of them.


These two statements are not mutually exclusive.
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Re: Dangerous American aircraft blacklisted globally

Postby 2dimes on Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:37 am

Because your's is wrong and you are pretending a safe landing is not part of being able to fly a 737max8.
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Re: Dangerous American aircraft blacklisted globally

Postby mookiemcgee on Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:35 pm

Pilot Who Hitched a Ride Saved Lion Air 737 Day Before Deadly Crash
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... er-crashed
Dukasaur wrote:A bonobo would have figured it out about 6 months ago.
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Re: Dangerous American aircraft blacklisted globally

Postby armati on Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:08 pm

mrswdk
"....America has decided to ignore these concerns and the safety of American travelers and decided it would rather prop up its industrial manufacturers...."

Has there ever been a time when that has not been the case?

Sure, lawsuits happen on occasion, but thats such a rare occurrence they make movies about it.

Profit before anything else, thats the american way, they learned that from the Brits.
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