Conquer Club

Posted: **Fri Dec 29, 2023 1:42 pm**

Every few months, I come upon a resource that shows reasons to become a Christian even for people who can't understand why others would believe in God. Here's where I can post some of those resources.

First up is a megastudy (over 10 000 studies referenced): Oxford Handbook of Religion and Health

There are tons of findings here, such as: longer life, less suicide, less drug abuse, longer lasting marriages (single parents, common-law relationships and divorce all lead to negative health outcomes for adults and children) and the list goes on and on.

Some of the results that surprised even me: they concluded the impact was so beneficial that prayer should be brought back into schools!

Posted: **Fri Dec 29, 2023 1:47 pm**

Resource number one is a bit older, but one that I have referenced quite a few times:
https://www.artofmanliness.com/characte ... e-beliefs/

The reasons, in short:

Greater social support
chance to slow down and think
builds discipline
power in ritual
stronger marriage
develops successful, well-rounded kids
communal singing
forces you to listen to other perspectives (to defeat the social media echo chamber)
promotes freethinking and diversity of ideas
lessens partisanship
opportunities to serve in the community
greater health

Posted: **Fri Dec 29, 2023 1:51 pm**

The "Blue Zones" refers to the regions of the world where people are most likely to live to 100 years old. What do they have in common? Lots of things. No surprise that this is on the list "All but five of the 263 centenarians we interviewed belonged to some faith-based community."

https://www.bluezones.com/2016/11/power-9/#

Posted: **Fri Dec 29, 2023 1:53 pm**

takes a seat

Posted: **Fri Dec 29, 2023 1:55 pm**

The Greater Good Institute at Berkeley researches what leads to well-being and the techniques to achieve it.

After several years of research they came up with a list, all of which are things commanded by the Bible.

Altruism
Awe
Bridging Differences
Compassion
Diversity
Empathy
Forgiveness
Gratitude
Happiness
Intellectual Humility
Mindfulness
Purpose
Social Connection

They have a ton of great resources on their website, including step-by-step instructions in how to live that way.
https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/

Posted: **Sat Dec 30, 2023 2:31 pm**

communal singing? fuckin' sign me up!!!

Posted: **Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:53 pm**

Don't forget brainwashing, child molestation, genocide and murder!

Yay!

Posted: **Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:15 pm**

What's really funny is this need to push the secular reasons.
Why? ...because nobody believes the imaginary reasons anymore.

So now we're getting: 'Jesus gives you cash back with every purchase!'

Posted: **Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:51 pm**

It's an intensely personal thing that just loses any viability in public displays like this. SMH.

Really sad.

Posted: **Sat Dec 30, 2023 7:49 pm**

Too many lies. Too many crazy people.

"Merry Christmas to the world’s 2.5 billion Christians. And to the remaining 5 billion people, including Muslims, Atheists, Hindus, Buddhists, Animists, and Jews." ~ Neil deGrasse Tyson

Do you have relatives who believe one day a trumpet will sound and they will join true believers flying into the sky?
Have you told them "I love you, but that seems silly?"

A godless man, Donald Trump, may now possess more devoted support from white evangelical Christians than any other president in the history of the United States. And most worrisome of all, that support is now disproportionately concentrated among the most churchgoing segment of the Republican electorate.

How on earth could a secular, twice-divorced, philandering reality television star fit in neatly with fundamentalist Christians? It makes no sense until you understand that the true distinction between fundamentalism and mainstream beliefs isn’t what fundamentalists believe but how fundamentalists believe. As Richard Land, a former president of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, once told me, “Fundamentalism is far more a psychology than a theology.” That’s why, for example, you can have competing Christian fundamentalisms, competing Muslim fundamentalisms and secular movements that possess fundamentalist characteristics.

I grew up in a church that most would describe as fundamentalist, and I’ve encountered fundamentalism of every stripe my entire life. And while fundamentalist ideas can often be quite variable and complex, I’ve never encountered a fundamentalist culture that didn’t combine three key traits: certainty, ferocity and solidarity.

Certainty is the key building block. The fundamentalist mind isn’t clouded by doubt. In fact, when people are fully captured by the fundamentalist mind-set, they often can’t even conceive of good-faith disagreement. To fundamentalists, their opponents aren’t just wrong but evil. Critics are derided as weak or cowards or grifters. Only a grave moral defect can explain the failure to agree.

Why do so many fundamentalists love Trump? Because in his certainty, ferocity and demands of loyalty, he’s a far more culturally familiar figure than a person of restraint and rectitude such as the departing senator Mitt Romney, who has the piety of a true believer but does not possess the ferocity of the fundamentalist. Thus Romney was culturally out of step with the millions of Christians who wanted, in the words of Jeffress, “the meanest, toughest son of a gun” they could find.

That’s why Trumpism, too, is ultimately doomed to fail. It’s engineered to destroy, not to build. The very characteristics that give it life also plant the seeds of its destruction. And so as we watch the continued marriage between Trumpism and fundamentalism dominate the right, the proper question isn’t whether fundamentalism will permanently remake American culture in its own image. Rather, it’s how much damage it will do before it collapses under the weight of its own rage and sin.

- - - David French

My opinion -

The more progressives win in society with acceptance and support of gays and alternate sexualities, with actually following the teachings of Christ to love your neighbor as yourself, with supporting the international strangers moving in, and the tolerance of other beliefs, the more Evangelicals are maddened and consider them Satanic and gravitate to the angriest opponent of the evil ones - the Democrats. Trump is the most angry and taps into their resentment and hate. Even if they don't love Trump they hate Democrats now who show up their ignoring the words and lessons of the Son of God. By misreading the Bible they also think Democrats are baby killers.

.

Posted: **Sat Dec 30, 2023 8:35 pm**

A godless man, Donald Trump

August 15, 21 Adoration

He seeks truth.* - God

* Donald J. Trump

—-

By misreading the Bible they also think Democrats are baby killers.

February 11, 21

I hold the keys to life and death. I create life to serve me the one true Lord of all. I cry out for the tragedy that abortion has caused and has inflicted on the world and those lives that have been destroyed without justification. Every soul I create is valuable and special to me. I mold each person in the palm of my hand. I alone create life and call it into being. I alone call that life from this life in death. I am Lord of all the living and all those who hurt my little ones shall know my wrath like no other! Every life is precious to me not to be thrown away like trash! My heart aches for the loss of so many souls to this grave sin. Continue to pray for the unborn they are dear to me.

Go in my love and mercy.

Posted: **Sun Dec 31, 2023 9:47 pm**

I am much more confident in Jewish teachings on the Old Testament. The soul does not enter the body until the first breath.
Exodus 21:22-25 gives a property fine for killing an unborn, an eye for an eye for killing the mother. .

The Revised Standard Version translates 'her children come out' with the phrase 'there is a miscarriage'. This implies that the 'harm' refers only to the woman. This is explicit in the New Jerusalem Bible: 'she suffers a miscarriage but no further harm is done'. On this interpretation the death of the unborn child merits a 'fine' but further harm to the mother merits 'life for life'. In favor of this interpretation is the witness of Josephus in the first century AD:

He that kicks a woman with child, so that the woman miscarry, let him pay a fine in money... as having diminished the multitude by the destruction of what was in her womb...but if she die of the stroke, let him also be put to death.

The same interpretation is evident in the Talmud and has become authoritative in Orthodox Judaism. It is because of this interpretation of Exodus 21 that even conservative Orthodox Jews say that in Jewish law the unborn child does not have the status of a person. Where abortion is a sin, it is not the sin of homicide. Unsurprisingly, this interpretation is much quoted by modern advocates of 'reproductive choice'.

Jesus with his advocacy of women would be more emphatic if he had talked about this. Jewish tradition says the health of the woman is paramount.
Rabbi Yeshua was woke on this issue and on migrants.
.

Posted: **Sun Dec 31, 2023 10:43 pm**

October 10, 21 Home

I am the Lord God of Heaven and earth of all that is seen and unseen. I am the Lord of all creation from very small to very large in size. I am the Creator of all that is seen and unseen.

Man creates very little without my help. I am the source of all that is in the world. All creation points back to the one Creator the Great I Am. I created all from my hand. The world and all that is was created by me.

I form each person from the time of conception. I give life because I am life itself. All life starts and ends with me. If it were not for me the Great I Am life would not exist. Life is a fragile state that comes from the God of Life. I am because I have always existed. No other being can claim this only the one true God of Heaven. I am because I am God of the Living! No other exist that can claim existence like I. I am the true God like no other because there is no other.

I am life-giving because I am life. I am the source of all life and from which life takes its name. Life is precious. No other can create life like the God of Life can.

Go now.

Posted: **Mon Jan 01, 2024 1:31 pm**

GaryDenton wrote:I am much more confident in Jewish teachings on the Old Testament. The soul does not enter the body until the first breath.
Exodus 21:22-25 gives a property fine for killing an unborn, an eye for an eye for killing the mother. .

The Revised Standard Version translates 'her children come out' with the phrase 'there is a miscarriage'. This implies that the 'harm' refers only to the woman. This is explicit in the New Jerusalem Bible: 'she suffers a miscarriage but no further harm is done'. On this interpretation the death of the unborn child merits a 'fine' but further harm to the mother merits 'life for life'. In favor of this interpretation is the witness of Josephus in the first century AD:

He that kicks a woman with child, so that the woman miscarry, let him pay a fine in money... as having diminished the multitude by the destruction of what was in her womb...but if she die of the stroke, let him also be put to death.

The same interpretation is evident in the Talmud and has become authoritative in Orthodox Judaism. It is because of this interpretation of Exodus 21 that even conservative Orthodox Jews say that in Jewish law the unborn child does not have the status of a person. Where abortion is a sin, it is not the sin of homicide. Unsurprisingly, this interpretation is much quoted by modern advocates of 'reproductive choice'.

Jesus with his advocacy of women would be more emphatic if he had talked about this. Jewish tradition says the health of the woman is paramount.
Rabbi Yeshua was woke on this issue and on migrants.
.

I see a lot of 'revising' and 'New' going on there...
Fine, go customize the deity you specifically want... just like that teddy-bear store in the mall*.
But spare us you pseudo-historical justifications.

* I'm imagining an intersexed, Leftist thing with elf ears. It is not a pretty sight...

Posted: **Mon Jan 01, 2024 2:00 pm**

Votanic wrote:
GaryDenton wrote:I am much more confident in Jewish teachings on the Old Testament. The soul does not enter the body until the first breath.
Exodus 21:22-25 gives a property fine for killing an unborn, an eye for an eye for killing the mother. .

The Revised Standard Version translates 'her children come out' with the phrase 'there is a miscarriage'. This implies that the 'harm' refers only to the woman. This is explicit in the New Jerusalem Bible: 'she suffers a miscarriage but no further harm is done'. On this interpretation the death of the unborn child merits a 'fine' but further harm to the mother merits 'life for life'. In favor of this interpretation is the witness of Josephus in the first century AD:

He that kicks a woman with child, so that the woman miscarry, let him pay a fine in money... as having diminished the multitude by the destruction of what was in her womb...but if she die of the stroke, let him also be put to death.

The same interpretation is evident in the Talmud and has become authoritative in Orthodox Judaism. It is because of this interpretation of Exodus 21 that even conservative Orthodox Jews say that in Jewish law the unborn child does not have the status of a person. Where abortion is a sin, it is not the sin of homicide. Unsurprisingly, this interpretation is much quoted by modern advocates of 'reproductive choice'.

Jesus with his advocacy of women would be more emphatic if he had talked about this. Jewish tradition says the health of the woman is paramount.
Rabbi Yeshua was woke on this issue and on migrants.
.

I see a lot of 'revising' and 'New' going on there...
Fine, go customize the deity you specifically want... just like that teddy-bear store in the mall*.
But spare us you pseudo-historical justifications.

* I'm imagining an intersexed, Leftist thing with elf ears. It is not a pretty sight...

Gary was trying to point out the hypocrisy of today's Christians who say abortion is murder in the eyes of God.

Your knee-jerk response is moronic and just plain insulting.

Posted: **Mon Jan 01, 2024 2:11 pm**

Pack Rat wrote:
Votanic wrote:
GaryDenton wrote:I am much more confident in Jewish teachings on the Old Testament. The soul does not enter the body until the first breath.
Exodus 21:22-25 gives a property fine for killing an unborn, an eye for an eye for killing the mother. .

The Revised Standard Version translates 'her children come out' with the phrase 'there is a miscarriage'. This implies that the 'harm' refers only to the woman. This is explicit in the New Jerusalem Bible: 'she suffers a miscarriage but no further harm is done'. On this interpretation the death of the unborn child merits a 'fine' but further harm to the mother merits 'life for life'. In favor of this interpretation is the witness of Josephus in the first century AD:

He that kicks a woman with child, so that the woman miscarry, let him pay a fine in money... as having diminished the multitude by the destruction of what was in her womb...but if she die of the stroke, let him also be put to death.

The same interpretation is evident in the Talmud and has become authoritative in Orthodox Judaism. It is because of this interpretation of Exodus 21 that even conservative Orthodox Jews say that in Jewish law the unborn child does not have the status of a person. Where abortion is a sin, it is not the sin of homicide. Unsurprisingly, this interpretation is much quoted by modern advocates of 'reproductive choice'.

Jesus with his advocacy of women would be more emphatic if he had talked about this. Jewish tradition says the health of the woman is paramount.
Rabbi Yeshua was woke on this issue and on migrants.
.

I see a lot of 'revising' and 'New' going on there...
Fine, go customize the deity you specifically want... just like that teddy-bear store in the mall*.
But spare us you pseudo-historical justifications.

* I'm imagining an intersexed, Leftist thing with elf ears. It is not a pretty sight...

Gary was trying to point out the hypocrisy of today's Christians who say abortion is murder in the eyes of God.

Your knee-jerk response is moronic and just plain insulting.

Your statement is so disingenuous.
So now Gary and his cherry-picked factoids are the only correct and interpretation of the Abrahamic god...
I'm sure your and Gary's teddy-bear is a card-carrying libtard plush deity who always votes Dem...
But those cuddly divine creatures come in all makes and models. get use dto it.
In fact... you know, you might prefer a traditional Baal teddy-god. His infant sacrifices sound like your cup of tea.

Posted: **Mon Jan 01, 2024 3:30 pm**

DoomYoshi wrote:Resource number one is a bit older, but one that I have referenced quite a few times:
https://www.artofmanliness.com/characte ... e-beliefs/

The reasons, in short:
Greater social support
chance to slow down and think
builds discipline
power in ritual
stronger marriage
develops successful, well-rounded kids
communal singing
forces you to listen to other perspectives (to defeat the social media echo chamber)
promotes freethinking and diversity of ideas
lessens partisanship
opportunities to serve in the community
greater health

Granted, this is all true. People who participate in regular church activities tend to be happier, more well-adjusted members of society than people who don't. Which is why I tend to support the existence of churches despite my distaste for the things they preach.

But can these benefits not accrue from secular interests in which similar things are done?

For instance, I've seen plenty of studies that volunteering (in general, regardless of purpose) tends to make people happier. If someone derives a sense of purpose from serving in a church-sponsored soup kitchen, does he not derive the same sense of purpose if he serves in a secular soup kitchen?

If someone derives happiness from communal singing in church, does he derive a similar level of happiness from singing in his local amateur operatic society? Etc.

I'm wondering if the studies you cite are just comparing people who go to church to people who do nothing for their community. I'd be interested if among those studies, you have some that compare apples to apples: people who regularly participate in their church organization versus people who devote a similar level of effort to participating in some nonreligious community organizations.

DoomYoshi wrote:The "Blue Zones" refers to the regions of the world where people are most likely to live to 100 years old. What do they have in common? Lots of things. No surprise that this is on the list "All but five of the 263 centenarians we interviewed belonged to some faith-based community."

https://www.bluezones.com/2016/11/power-9/#

I'm a big fan of Blue Zones research, but everyone comes to things with their own prejudices. Buettner is a great guy but like everyone else he sees things through his own lens.

Buettner uses the widest-possible definition of 'faith-based community'. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think in order to arrive at the number, he classifies the Okinawan moais as being faith-based. Granted, discussions of religion and spirituality are part of what a moai does, but only a small part. Essentially, they are social organizations, mutual-assistance circles with mainly social and economic goals. Would they not accomplish the same task if the tiny religious components were completely removed from them?

Posted: **Mon Jan 01, 2024 3:32 pm**

When i see Vots posts the radio in my head goes immediatly on and plays that one line from that pumpkins song over and over.

You know "despite all my rage im still just a rat in a cage". :lol:

Posted: **Mon Jan 01, 2024 3:40 pm**

pmac666 wrote:When i see Vots posts the radio in my head goes immediatly on and plays that one line from that pumpkins song over and over.

You know "despite all my rage im still just a rat in a cage".

There are many things far finer than rats, which are caged by cruel circumstance...
...and there are also too many foul, disease-ridden rats, like pukey6, that yet run free to spread the plagues of a sick mind.

Rise up, Great Serpent and Deliver the World from such Vermins of Filth.

Posted: **Mon Jan 01, 2024 3:42 pm**

pmac666 wrote:When i see Vots posts the radio in my head goes immediatly on and plays that one line from that pumpkins song over and over.

You know "despite all my rage im still just a rat in a cage".

Okay, you just saw me give him a warning for ad-hominems. This isn't an invitation for you to go "na-na-na-na-na!" and thumb your nose in his face. Please comport yourself like a gentleman.

Posted: **Mon Jan 01, 2024 3:42 pm**

Votanic wrote:
pmac666 wrote:When i see Vots posts the radio in my head goes immediatly on and plays that one line from that pumpkins song over and over.

You know "despite all my rage im still just a rat in a cage".

There are many things far finer than rats, which are caged by cruel circumstance...
...and there are also too many foul, disease-ridden rats, like pukey6, that yet run free to spread the plagues of a sick mind.

Rise up, Great Serpent and Deliver the World from such Vermins of Filth.

Not repeating myself.

Posted: **Mon Jan 01, 2024 4:09 pm**

Dukasaur wrote:
pmac666 wrote:When i see Vots posts the radio in my head goes immediatly on and plays that one line from that pumpkins song over and over.

You know "despite all my rage im still just a rat in a cage".

Okay, you just saw me give him a warning for ad-hominems. This isn't an invitation for you to go "na-na-na-na-na!" and thumb your nose in his face. Please comport yourself like a gentleman.

Maybe they don't understand latin?

Posted: **Mon Jan 01, 2024 4:20 pm**

mookiemcgee wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:
pmac666 wrote:When i see Vots posts the radio in my head goes immediatly on and plays that one line from that pumpkins song over and over.

You know "despite all my rage im still just a rat in a cage".

Okay, you just saw me give him a warning for ad-hominems. This isn't an invitation for you to go "na-na-na-na-na!" and thumb your nose in his face. Please comport yourself like a gentleman.

Maybe they don't understand latin?

Ad-hominem is often falsely described as a fallacy, but in truth, many ideas and concepts, especially political issues, are not abstract things divorced from the people who create, believe, or promulgate them.
Never mind Latin, the plain English aphorism that goes "If the shoe fits, wear it" would serve better.

Conquer Club

Secular Reasons to Believe in Jesus

Secular Reasons to Believe in Jesus

Re: Secular Reasons to Believe in Jesus

Re: Secular Reasons to Believe in Jesus

Re: Secular Reasons to Believe in Jesus

Re: Secular Reasons to Believe in Jesus

Re: Secular Reasons to Believe in Jesus

Re: Secular Reasons to Believe in Jesus

Re: Secular Reasons to Believe in Jesus

Re: Secular Reasons to Believe in Jesus

Re: Secular Reasons to Believe in Jesus

Re: Secular Reasons to Believe in Jesus

Re: Secular Reasons to Believe in Jesus

Re: Secular Reasons to Believe in Jesus

Re: Secular Reasons to Believe in Jesus

Re: Secular Reasons to Believe in Jesus

Re: Secular Reasons to Believe in Jesus

Re: Secular Reasons to Believe in Jesus

Re: Secular Reasons to Believe in Jesus

Re: Secular Reasons to Believe in Jesus

Re: Secular Reasons to Believe in Jesus

Re: Secular Reasons to Believe in Jesus

Re: Secular Reasons to Believe in Jesus

Re: Secular Reasons to Believe in Jesus