Illegal Immigrants...

[Dmunster]

If it's an unjust law, then yeah, breaking it would be justice. To paraphrase Martin Luther King Jr.

Its not an unjust law. Heck, why stop with the boarders! Let abolish ALL private property! I'll be over next week to hunt deer on your land. (I have to feed my kids ya know)

This land (USA) belongs to her people, not anyone who decides to cross the boarder and set up shop. For the life of me, I do not understand the logic of those who DEFEND illegal immigration. (except, of course the illegal immigrants themselves)

According to your reasoning every scrap of Land should be handed back to the Native Indians then , the original pilgrims were illegals fleeing persecution you realise. The fact is that the USA is a huge and wealthy nation that can easily accomodate a few million more people , why not just make them legal so they can pay taxes and make a contribution to the economy. In truth its not that they are illegal that upsets certain of you , its simply that they are Hispanic,its racism pure and simple.

Ya, so can the UK. You take em. People residing in countries with more difficult immigration laws need to keep your mourth shut when it comes to my countries immigration laws. We have more legal foreign nationals in this country than any other so take a look in the mirror morons.

[Dmunster]

For your reading pleasure (from year 2000):


Immigration Statistics > Statistics > New citizenships (Latest available) by country
VIEW DATA: Totals Per capita Per $ GDP
Definition Source Printable version

Bar Graph Pie Chart Map Correlations

Rank Countries Amount (top to bottom)
#1 United States: 898 thousand
#2 Canada: 214.6 thousand
#3 Germany: 186.7 thousand
#4 France: 150 thousand
#5 United Kingdom: 82.2 thousand
#6 Australia: 70.8 thousand
#7 Belgium: 62.1 thousand
#8 Netherlands: 50 thousand
#9 Sweden: 43.5 thousand
#10 Switzerland: 28.7 thousand
#11 Austria: 24.6 thousand
#12 Denmark: 18.8 thousand
#13 Japan: 15 thousand
#14 Spain: 12 thousand
#15 Italy: 11.6 thousand
#16 Norway: 9.5 thousand
#17 Hungary: 7.5 thousand
#18 Finland: 3 thousand
#19 Portugal: 0.7 thousand
#20 Luxembourg: 0.6 thousand
Total: 1,889.9 thousand
Weighted average: 94.5 thousand



DEFINITION: Thousands of people who acquired nationality in 2000. Statistics cover all means of acquiring the nationality of a country, except where otherwise indicated. These include standard naturalisation procedures subject to age, residency, etc. criteria, as well as situations where nationality is acquired through a declaration or by option (following marriage, adoption, or other situations related to residency or descent), recovery of former nationality and other special means of acquiring the nationality of a country. For more details on sources, refer to the notes at the end of the OECD Annex.

[luns101]

In truth its not that they are illegal that upsets certain of you , its simply that they are Hispanic,its racism pure and simple.

How do you know that?

Its a fair assumption I think !
There are many reasons why people are concerned about immigration,racism and the economic fallout are probably the most common.

So you go around making accusations against people who you don't know, and are more than willing to vilify them based on an assumption.

Stop the name calling please,there really is no need for it!

So...after you call people who you don't know "racists", you call for the end of name calling.

[comic boy]

In truth its not that they are illegal that upsets certain of you , its simply that they are Hispanic,its racism pure and simple.

How do you know that?

Its a fair assumption I think !
There are many reasons why people are concerned about immigration,racism and the economic fallout are probably the most common.

So you go around making accusations against people who you don't know, and are more than willing to vilify them based on an assumption.

Stop the name calling please,there really is no need for it!

So...after you call people who you don't know "racists", you call for the end of name calling.

Luns you are being absurd,I have not called anybody on this thread names, previous posts on this topic however have been littered with the most blatantly racist tosh . I truly cannot believe that you would write nonsense like ' people you dont know' , I am commenting on what they write and my perception of it, just as everybody else does.

[comic boy]

Ya, so can the UK. You take em. People residing in countries with more difficult immigration laws need to keep your mourth shut when it comes to my countries immigration laws. We have more legal foreign nationals in this country than any other so take a look in the mirror morons.[/quote]

The UK and Indeed the rest of Europe has the same trials and tribulations
as the USA when it comes to immigration, so I am perfectly entitled to comment on it. The fact that you think your country is special in some way does not make the assertion true. Because of the EEC there is massive mobility now between member countries and those with healthier economies are absorbing huge amounts of migrant workers,this has led to an upsurge of racist sentiment. As I said why do you guys think you are anything special in this regard ?

[Dmunster]

The UK and Indeed the rest of Europe has the same trials and tribulations
as the USA when it comes to immigration, so I am perfectly entitled to comment on it. The fact that you think your country is special in some way does not make the assertion true. Because of the EEC there is massive mobility now between member countries and those with healthier economies are absorbing huge amounts of migrant workers,this has led to an upsurge of racist sentiment. As I said why do you guys think you are anything special in this regard ?

You are the one busting Americas balls for enforcing laws that are currently in place to regulate the flow of immigrants into our country. What makes us special is the fact that we nationalize over 10 times as many immigrants into our country than the UK. I would contend that the EU has far less impoverished citizens than the Americas. Lets consider the plethora of countries that regularly have illegials wash up onto American soil: Haiti, Cuba, Jamacia, Mexico, El Salvador, Costa Rica, Colombia... the list goes on and on. Letting every scum bag from these countries that want to reside illegaly, without paying taxes and sucking up our limited social services will bankrupt it this country.

[luns101]

Luns you are being absurd,I have not called anybody on this thread names, previous posts on this topic however have been littered with the most blatantly racist tosh . I truly cannot believe that you would write nonsense like ' people you dont know' , I am commenting on what they write and my perception of it, just as everybody else does.

Oh please! Pedophilia is practiced by pedophiles, people who tell lies are called liars, those who practice thievery are called thieves. You didn't actually call people who speak up against illegal immigration racists with an "ists" at the end, but you did say it was racism. The insinuation is obvious. In doing so, you demonize people who you disagree with your position. You have no facts to back up that charge. I called you on it, and you don't like it.

[btownmeggy]

...and they'd have to take an English language class and...

Why?

[btownmeggy]

Weren't the settlers who moved into Sovereign Mexican land illegals ?

Well, that's a funny question, but actually, they mostly weren't. Starting around 1820, the Mexican government gave permission for men called empresarios to divide up unused land in the far north of Mexico and sell it to settlers, mostly from the US and Germany.

(This comment does not carry with it any argument on the topic at hand. I'm just passing along historical fact.)

[comic boy]

Luns you are being absurd,I have not called anybody on this thread names, previous posts on this topic however have been littered with the most blatantly racist tosh . I truly cannot believe that you would write nonsense like ' people you dont know' , I am commenting on what they write and my perception of it, just as everybody else does.

Oh please! Pedophilia is practiced by pedophiles, people who tell lies are called liars, those who practice thievery are called thieves. You didn't actually call people who speak up against illegal immigration racists with an "ists" at the end, but you did say it was racism. The insinuation is obvious. In doing so, you demonize people who you disagree with your position. You have no facts to back up that charge. I called you on it, and you don't like it.

If you truly believe that a lot of the flak aimed at illegal immigration is not inspired by bigotry then I think you are mistaken. You call me out because I make a judgement on what I have actually read yet criticise me on the grounds of what you think I insinuate....laughable

[OnlyAmbrose]

...and they'd have to take an English language class and...

Why?

It's the official language of this nation. You'd think that to become a citizen of a country, you should know her language.

[Stopper]

It's the official language of this nation. You'd think that to become a citizen of a country, you should know her language.

I agree. I keep trying to tell that to my uncle Teàrlach McTavish, who lives in the Hebrides, but I can't seem to get that point through to him. Mainly because he only speaks Gaelic. Stupid teuchter.

[Carebian Knight]

...and they'd have to take an English language class and...

Why?

It's the official language of this nation. You'd think that to become a citizen of a country, you should know her language.

Just a historical fact: English was never made the official language of the US.

However it is spoken by the majority of the population so everyone that lives in the US should either be able to speak it or be taking a class on it.

[Carebian Knight]

I believe that the US should have open border policy, however, all people who immigrate into the US should go through the process of citizenship. Limiting the amount of immigration into the US will only bring about more illegal immigration. If you had a choice of waiting years so that you could finally go to the country you want, or running across and imaginary line called a border, most people would choose to run across the border.

Making all the companies that hire illegal immigrants pay a fine would be impossible as already pointed out by other individuals. There are simply to many companies, many of which might not even know they have hired illegal immigrants.

Say your parents are American citizens traveling in Europe, if your mother went into labor while in say Germany, you would be considered a German citizen. If you came back with your parents into the US, you would be illegal. That's not right, there should be exceptions to most laws. Especially immigration laws. Instead of repelling immigrants we should embrace them. Only they should be made to become citizens.

[btownmeggy]

...and they'd have to take an English language class and...

Why?

It's the official language of this nation.

Since when??

[umanouski]

Luns you are being absurd,I have not called anybody on this thread names, previous posts on this topic however have been littered with the most blatantly racist tosh . I truly cannot believe that you would write nonsense like ' people you dont know' , I am commenting on what they write and my perception of it, just as everybody else does.

Oh please! Pedophilia is practiced by pedophiles, people who tell lies are called liars, those who practice thievery are called thieves. You didn't actually call people who speak up against illegal immigration racists with an "ists" at the end, but you did say it was racism. The insinuation is obvious. In doing so, you demonize people who you disagree with your position. You have no facts to back up that charge. I called you on it, and you don't like it.

If you truly believe that a lot of the flak aimed at illegal immigration is not inspired by bigotry then I think you are mistaken. You call me out because I make a judgement on what I have actually read yet criticise me on the grounds of what you think I insinuate....laughable

I read your posts, and damn, you don't ,like to lose.

[luns101]

If you truly believe that a lot of the flak aimed at illegal immigration is not inspired by bigotry then I think you are mistaken.

Finally, a decent argument. If you think I'm mistaken, that's legitimate. However, you should cite your sources for why you think the fight to protect America's borders is inspired by bigotry. After all, if it was truly based on bigotry/racism then why would they come to a country where they will be racially discriminated against? Does the amount of potential money to be earned outweigh the lack of self respect they would receive due to this alleged racism?

You call me out because I make a judgement on what I have actually read yet criticise me on the grounds of what you think I insinuate....laughable

I don't have to guess at what you insinuated because you actually wrote the word racism. It's a matter of written record here in the forums. Charging someone (or a group of people) with racism is a pretty serious charge. If you don't like being called out for it then don't use it unless you can prove it.

[vtmarik]

If you truly believe that a lot of the flak aimed at illegal immigration is not inspired by bigotry then I think you are mistaken.

Finally, a decent argument.

Is it really, or are you just trying to be magnanimous?

[luns101]

If you truly believe that a lot of the flak aimed at illegal immigration is not inspired by bigotry then I think you are mistaken.

Finally, a decent argument.

Is it really, or are you just trying to be magnanimous?

Just trying to make a point. In an argument, it's easy to throw a label around like "homophobe", "facist", or "racist" in order to discredit the other side instead of actually debating the issue. If he's going to simply say I'm wrong based on things he's read then that's legitimate criticism.

[spurgistan]

In response to Luns above (way too tired to quote)... as far as the bigotry against illegals goes, isn't it possible that in their home countries people might not realize how biased Americans are against illegal immigrants? I personally don't believe that most anti-immigration advovates are motivated primarily by bigotry, and also would suppose that most residents of the countries with large migrant populations in the US would realize that we are not always as tolerant of others as we're made out to be (at least, the family I stayed with in Costa Rica had no illusions), but that immigrants could be surprised by the frosty reception they get in the US?

[comic boy]

Luns101

I dont really want to drag this out so perhaps I can clarify my position;

1) In general terms I think it is desirable for a country to be able to identify those who reside within its borders and for those persons to hold legal status. My argument is really that if there is adequate work and social infrastructure to attract widescale immigration then it should be made easier for new arrivals,at some stage saturation point gets reached and other places become more attractive. I know this is simplistic but if there are no black market jobs,affordable housing or welfare available then ilegal immigrants for the most part will stop arriving.
2) As for racism I am pretty sure if you care to check you will find I didnt label anybody on this particular thread racist,the person who most obviously springs to mind on this forum is extratabasco and it was those of his ilk that I was refering to.Furthermore I was speaking in general terms anyway not specificaly about New Mexico or indeed the USA, in the wider scheme of things I stick rigidly to my point about much of the talk about immigration being inspired by bigotry.
I certainly take your points made above on board and have no trouble apologising to anyone here who felt I had unjustly labeled them racist,it was not my intention and I hope we can now move on.

[Psilocbin]

I am Mexican.

[btownmeggy]

I am Mexican.

'

Well, , hmm. I guess that means you need to clean my toilet or get out of my country.

[luns101]

Luns101

I dont really want to drag this out so perhaps I can clarify my position;

1) In general terms I think it is desirable for a country to be able to identify those who reside within its borders and for those persons to hold legal status. My argument is really that if there is adequate work and social infrastructure to attract widescale immigration then it should be made easier for new arrivals,at some stage saturation point gets reached and other places become more attractive. I know this is simplistic but if there are no black market jobs,affordable housing or welfare available then ilegal immigrants for the most part will stop arriving.
2) As for racism I am pretty sure if you care to check you will find I didnt label anybody on this particular thread racist,the person who most obviously springs to mind on this forum is extratabasco and it was those of his ilk that I was refering to.Furthermore I was speaking in general terms anyway not specificaly about New Mexico or indeed the USA, in the wider scheme of things I stick rigidly to my point about much of the talk about immigration being inspired by bigotry.
I certainly take your points made above on board and have no trouble apologising to anyone here who felt I had unjustly labeled them racist,it was not my intention and I hope we can now move on.

Very well put forth. I agree with you on some of your points. I teach ESL in some of the areas that are affected by illegal immigration in southern California. I've actually experienced and seen the bad side of things due to not dealing with the problem.

[Psilocbin]

I am Mexican.

'

Well, , hmm. I guess that means you need to clean my toilet or get out of my country.

Jerk.