Conquer Club

I was never going to be able to spell that first word right, so I used "child" spelling. Go figure.

Anyhoo, here's a question that you don't think of often:
Are you dead before you are born/concieved?

Now there's a thinker, I would especially like to hear what the J Freaks have to say on this one.

100 years ago, where were you? Well you're in 2/4/6 different pieces, depending in which generation you're in. But are you alive?
Your hosts (parents/grandparents) most certainly are, so are you?

Life before Death - ? before Life

C'mon! Your thoughts, NOW!

whatever you say sir

Huh?

You're non-existent. Neither dead nor alive.

Unless you believe in reincarnation. Then you're alive as another human or a frog or wolf or something.

Syzygy wrote:You're non-existent. Neither dead nor alive.
.

Ah, but surely you can only be dead or alive?

Minister Masket wrote:

Syzygy wrote:You're non-existent. Neither dead nor alive.
.

Ah, but surely you can only be dead or alive?

Er... No. Not in my opinion.

Syzygy wrote:

Minister Masket wrote:

Syzygy wrote:You're non-existent. Neither dead nor alive.
.

Ah, but surely you can only be dead or alive?

Er... No. Not in my opinion.

A 3rd state of existance (or non-existance) then.
Then how do you explain going from not existing, to existing.
According to one of Newton's Laws, you cannot just pop into existance, you had to come from somewhere.

Minister Masket wrote:

Syzygy wrote:

Minister Masket wrote:

Syzygy wrote:You're non-existent. Neither dead nor alive.
.

Ah, but surely you can only be dead or alive?

Er... No. Not in my opinion.

A 3rd state of existance (or non-existance) then.
Then how do you explain going from not existing, to existing.
According to one of Newton's Laws, you cannot just pop into existance, you had to come from somewhere.

You come from atoms. Lots of them.

Atoms are not alive or dead. They just... exist.

You as a person do not exist before these atoms come together to make a whole and create a new entity. The atoms that make you up will continue after you, but they are neither alive or dead. You, however are dead by then. It's like getting recycled.

Just think - you're made up of atoms that came from dead people. Nice thought, no?

Minister Masket wrote:According to one of Newton's Laws, you cannot just pop into existance, you had to come from somewhere.

You can... it's just that you are annihilated immediatley afterwards. Not exactly useful for those wishing for a long and fufilling life...

Syzygy wrote:Just think - you're made up of atoms that came from dead people. Nice thought, no?

Dead plants and animals, more likely. I don't think past generations were that big on cannibalism.

Neutrino wrote:

Syzygy wrote:Just think - you're made up of atoms that came from dead people. Nice thought, no?

Dead plants and animals, more likely. I don't think past generations were that big on cannibalism.

True that.

But, We rot. Plants get nutrients from us. We eat plants. There we go - dead people's atoms. Yum.

FOOLS! I know I'm a Scientist, but the question is "filosofical" for a reason!
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough...
Ok, atoms give you the body, where does the soul come from?

Philosophical

Minister Masket wrote:FOOLS! I know I'm a Scientist, but the question is "filosofical" for a reason!
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough...
Ok, atoms give you the body, where does the soul come from?

I wouldn't know. I've been called a soulless bastard too many times.

cena-rules wrote:Philosophical

Thank you for the spell-check Igor. Here's a cookie.

mmmmmmmm

No, you are not alive until some form of rational consciousness/brain/neural activity.
Hence why abortion is cool.

suggs wrote:No, you are not alive until some form of rational consciousness/brain/neural activity.
Hence why abortion is cool.

That would make you cool suggs.

I swear I can see a pentagram/star in the front of your hat Mr Suggs.

Minister Masket wrote:I swear I can see a pentagram/star in the front of your hat Mr Suggs.

That's because there is one.

There is no you. Nothing exists until the atoms are assimilated and formed into that.

Minister Masket wrote:I was never going to be able to spell that first word right, so I used "child" spelling. Go figure.

Anyhoo, here's a question that you don't think of often:
Are you dead before you are born/concieved?

Now there's a thinker, I would especially like to hear what the J Freaks have to say on this one.

100 years ago, where were you? Well you're in 2/4/6 different pieces, depending in which generation you're in. But are you alive?
Your hosts (parents/grandparents) most certainly are, so are you?

Life before Death - ? before Life

You simply did not exist. you were nothing. You were the lack of everything. Then your parents had sex, sperm traveled into the uterus, combined with an egg, the cells then split apart and grew into a larger entity through a process I believe is mitosis. Then you could take 2 approaches. Either you began to exist when you first became conscious, or when the egg and sperm combined. You proceeded to grow in your mothers womb, or a test tube, and grew up into the idiot you are today.

I'm an idiot.

The word soul is an outdated word. What was recognized as the 'soul' hundreds, if not thousands, of years ago is now recognized as consciousness. It's simpleminded superstition; same as ancient astronomers giving the stars human human attributes to better define what we do not understand.

Just because you're capable of identifying suffering, feeling content, choosing things you like/dislike and bitching about it in terms we understand does not mean you have an 'immortal ghost' that lives inside you.

So I submit to you that this is an inherently flawed conundrum, to which there can possibly be no answer that would satisfy the question. It's all a matter of perspective.

Also, you're trying to mix science and religion here, thus muddying the waters to a point that no possible conclusion can be drawn.

Minister Masket wrote:Ok, atoms give you the body, where does the soul come from?

Consciousness consists of a high level of brain organisation 'reading' symbols assembled at a lower level from signals at a still lower level. Keep going downwards and you get to neurons, then molecules, then atoms, then quarks, then strings, then 10 dimensions curled up at the planck length, then finally you reach the end of this post.