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How many Flags are flying for vets

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what percentage of flags are out

 
Total votes : 0

Re: Isn't there a contradiction in "justified war"

Postby Frigidus on Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:06 am

xtratabasco wrote:
strike wolf wrote:
xtratabasco wrote:Im saying that the only troops I support are the ones who are defending our country, Freedom and Liberty, and that hasnt happened since George Washingtons days.

I dont support this governments use of our military in the 160+ countries around the world raping and killing them.


So are you saying that we shouldn't have joined WWII and helped stop Hitler?



bush's grandpa helped Hitler, and was found guilty of violating the law by helping the enemy during wartime, thus he should have been hung.

this and the fact that now it has come out that Pearl Harbor was NOT a surprise attack, it was used to GET the American people into the war when they didnt want to be in it.


to answer your question................no, the bankers started it, they can stop it....and they did


now go read a real History Book



next


Next? No. Pearl Harbor was a surprise attack. Do you want photographic evidence again? Bankers? Bankers started it? We're not that freaking capitalistic. Did you get this information from Youtube?
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Re: Isn't there a contradiction in "justified war"

Postby strike wolf on Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:18 am

xtratabasco wrote:
strike wolf wrote:
xtratabasco wrote:Im saying that the only troops I support are the ones who are defending our country, Freedom and Liberty, and that hasnt happened since George Washingtons days.

I dont support this governments use of our military in the 160+ countries around the world raping and killing them.


So are you saying that we shouldn't have joined WWII and helped stop Hitler?



bush's grandpa helped Hitler, and was found guilty of violating the law by helping the enemy during wartime, thus he should have been hung.


Please don't bring Bush into this it has nothing to do with the subject.

xtratabasco wrote:this and the fact that now it has come out that Pearl Harbor was NOT a surprise attack, it was used to GET the American people into the war when they didnt want to be in it.


And your the only person in the world that knows this how? The U.S. figured out about the Pearl Harbor attack too late. By the time the message was sent to Pearl Harbor the attack had already been made. It was not uncommon for the Japanese during this time period to attack with little or no warning.
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Re: Isn't there a contradiction in "justified war"

Postby PinkyAndTheBrain on Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:53 am

xtratabasco wrote:Im saying that the only troops I support are the ones who are defending our country, Freedom and Liberty, and that hasnt happened since George Washingtons days.

I dont support this governments use of our military in the 160+ countries around the world raping and killing them.


So you don't pay taxes?
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Re: Isn't there a contradiction in "justified war"

Postby Guiscard on Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:59 am

xtratabasco wrote:to answer your question................no, the bankers started it, they can stop it....and they did


now go read a real History Book


What history books do you read, Xtra? Because thats not in any I teach...

We don't teach conspiracy bollocks... at least not on the current syllabus...
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Postby Iz Man on Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:04 am

Guiscard wrote:I'd have thought you'd have agreed with the general argument Iz... People pay lipservice to the Vets but we should do more to truly honour them through helping them, charity, medication etc....

I guess I'll comment now that I actually read his post. 8)
got tonkaed wrote:I think we pay a lot of lipservice to this whole idea of supporting our troops. A lot of people have signs, wave a flag, or expect other people to feel patriotic around this time of year. I do think there are a lot of reasons to do some of those things, i dont think we are always just villains, even though there are defintently things i dont agree with, and things i wish we hadnt done. But outside of those who have people in the service, or maybe will be in the service somewhere down the line, i dont know that many of us are really supporting our troops. Its easy to say things like that, that we have to make sure we are doing our best for the people who serve our nation. A lot of things get politicized to make it seem like we are doing our part.

I think you need to define "supporting our troops". I also think a lot of what that means (especially lately) is not "not-supporting" our troops. One does not need to fly the flag, give money, time, or anything else to legitimately support our troops. The problem lies in the non-stop anti-war drivel spouted by the hollywood & media-types. The "I support the troops but not the war" stance is bullshit.
The best way to support our troops is to get behind them 100% so as to get them home as quickly as possible. Protesting the war, saying the war is lost (Harry Reid), saying our soldiers are killing women & children in the dark of night (John Kerry), Saying they are cold-blooded murderers (John Murtha), etc., does not facilitate bringing them home. Whether you agree with the war or not, all resources must be put forth to complete a decisive victory. That means pro-war(troops) propaganda from Hollywood, not movies about soldiers raping women; and it means the media needs to report the good news that coming out of theater. THAT'S what our troops want, and that what we do to support them.
got tonkaed wrote:Then you hear all these stories about how many Vets are homeless, or many of them cant get the necessary treatment they need to get over some of the things they have seen and done in the course of service. You hear about how relatively little is done for the soilders once they come home, as opposed to how much is done to trumpet up the spirit of the nation to send them over there, wherever that happens to be.

I'm sorry, but this is just plain false.
Walter Reid aside (and measures have been taken to fix the situation there), the "homeless problem" among vets is just not true. It may have been post-Vietnam, but not now.
The programs and financial aid available to veterans now is too extensive to mention here. I know, I am a vet. There is the G.I. Bill to provide $$ for higher education, there is assistance for aquiring a mortgage to purchase a home, and there is also medical assistence for those who need psychiatric treatment etc. for PTSD and other illnesses.
The idea that once our veterans are out of the service they are forgotten is ludicrous.
got tonkaed wrote:I think this kinda reflects, our mentality as a whole, especially toward charity and aid to those who need it. Americans talk all the time about how much we give and about the spirit of the American people. Yet per capita we give the least amongst all the developed nations, and are far from making our promises time and time again. We say and promise things as a people, because we feel like that is true support. So many of our vets are sent over to do things under the pretense that America is some kind of broker of universal truths like freedom. Yet when it comes down to some of the nuts and bolts of improving the human condition, America does very little, if anything at all.

I guess this is why I probably shouldn't have read or replied to this at all.....
Here we go again....Americans don't give anything to charity, we don't do anything to help the world......
This is where the "liberal blah blah blah" comes in.
This is crap. It is more anti-American rhetoric.
http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/displ ... 593508e-02
I'm not going to throw this into a debate about how much Americans give to charity or help others throughout the world. For some reason you think Americans don't do shit. You want to feel that way, go ahead. You're wrong.
got tonkaed wrote:If we really wanted to take care our vets and remember them, none of them would die homeless without some of the medication they need to help gain touch back with reality after some of the scars they gained both inside and out in battle. War seems to be a pretty ugly thing, and we dont really prepare for the effects of it, both on nations and people. If we really wanted to honor the lives of all those who fought under the hopes they were doing something to make the world better, we could go along way by doing more to make the world they died in a better place.

So in conclusion, we do a lot more for veterans now than you realize, or what you may see on CNN.
Veterans don't look for charity or handouts, but assistance is there if they need it.
What veterans want is for the general populace to get behind them in their mission; let the military leadership fight wars, not politicians.
They just want a thank you when they get home.
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Re: How many Flags are flying for vets

Postby DaGip on Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:41 pm

xtratabasco wrote:Besides the schools, post office, government buildings and car dealerships, what percentage of flags are flying for the vets or wars where you live and work, and please be honest.


In my neighborhood of about 70 homes there is 1 small flag on a mailbox that will be removed by tonight, im sure.


Where I work there is over 1000 homes and there was about 30 flags out.
after 911 there was about 700 flags.


I dont think this is do to anti-vets, I believe it is anti-Iraq/Middle East Invasion and Empire Building


I didn't see any except for the ones that usually are flying anyway...but then again, I don't know how big of a flag-flying-day Veteran's Day is? I know on Flag Day you will see a lot of flags.
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Postby xtratabasco on Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:42 pm

Pearl Harbor was not a surprise attack

1 of hundreds of websites that show the declassified documents that show FDR knew and did nothing.

http://www.geocities.com/northstarzone/PEARL.html
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Postby DaGip on Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:43 pm

I'm sorry, but this is just plain false.
Walter Reid aside (and measures have been taken to fix the situation there), the "homeless problem" among vets is just not true. It may have been post-Vietnam, but not now.
Uh? Can I say something about the HOMELESS VET thing?...I was homeless for two years and the majority of homeless people that I met were HOMELESS VIETNAM VETS! SO SHUT THE FUK UP!
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Postby xtratabasco on Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:50 pm

Quote:
I'm sorry, but this is just plain false.
Walter Reid aside (and measures have been taken to fix the situation there)




your insane, the VA is and has been in shambles for decades.
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Postby Frigidus on Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:01 pm

xtratabasco wrote:Pearl Harbor was not a surprise attack

1 of hundreds of websites that show the declassified documents that show FDR knew and did nothing.

http://www.geocities.com/northstarzone/PEARL.html


A geocities account...
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Postby Iz Man on Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:14 pm

DaGip wrote:
I'm sorry, but this is just plain false.
Walter Reid aside (and measures have been taken to fix the situation there), the "homeless problem" among vets is just not true. It may have been post-Vietnam, but not now.
Uh? Can I say something about the HOMELESS VET thing?...I was homeless for two years and the majority of homeless people that I met were HOMELESS VIETNAM VETS! SO SHUT THE FUK UP!

First of all, I conceded the post-Vietnam era....
Second,
You want a hand out?
It's pretty pathetic that the first thing some look for when down on hard times is charity.
When I was struggling financially, as a vet, I worked 2 jobs and went to school to better myself. I was able to do this partly because of the G.I. bill... A VETERAN BENEFIT.
I didn't piss and moan because other people wouldn't give me free money.

Get off your ass, get off the crack, and get a job.
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Postby Iz Man on Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:17 pm

xtratabasco wrote:your insane, the VA is and has been in shambles for decades.

You know this from all the V.A. assistance you've applied for as a vet?:roll:
Doubtful, as you wouldn't last 3 hours of bootcamp.......


Oh, and it's " you're "
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Postby xtratabasco on Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:39 pm

Iz Man wrote:
you wouldn't last 3 hours of bootcamp.







absolutlly, Im a horrible boot-licker
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Postby Iz Man on Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:44 pm

xtratabasco wrote:absolutlly, Im a horrible boot-licker

typical copout response.
Not surprising.
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Postby xtratabasco on Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:17 pm

Iz Man wrote:
xtratabasco wrote:absolutlly, Im a horrible boot-licker

typical copout response.
Not surprising.



actually, I dont like killing men, women and children for Freedom either.


silly me :roll:


maybe you should put your skull and crossbone uniform on and rejoin, instead of wasting time here.

bush is calling you, its for Freedom of course. :D
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Postby got tonkaed on Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:09 pm

IZ, ill admit there are things that are being done yes to aid veterans and that these things should be acknowledged. I dont dispute any of that...however

The G.I. Bill has been cut back since it was so instrumental in changing the lives of many americans in the first few decades it was being implemented. A lot of families can lay some of the claim to their lives improving because we as a country did so much for our Vets once they came home with things like the education provided by the G.I. Bill. The problem is...a lot of these programs have been cut into or repealed or given out with more stringent criteria. Im certainly not saying that every vet may need a free tuition, but a lot of things have in fact been cut.

I also watched a few pretty good documentaries about some of the issues Vets have with mental health problems. A lot of the groups who do assist the Vets are outside of the offical armed forces in the form of advocacy groups. The problem is, the armed forces could do a lot more to destigmatize getting help, which is in some ways tied into the military culture, and leaves many to fall through the cracks. Also it seems a few different studies recently corroborated the notion that 25% of the homeless are in fact Vets. If we have up to 3 million who are homeless (not counting near homeless) thats a pretty large number of individuals who end up out on the streets.

Its not worth continuing the discussion about charity i would assume. The idea that per capita and gross charity statistics probably reflect differences of opinion that we wouldnt be able to discuss (since one i dont have the often enough access to be invovled and i dont know if you could discuss it civily).

I think we are closer in opinion on this issue than you realize IZ. I think we should do more to make sure that our troops are supported, i would just rather we put some teeth behind a lot of the things we could be doing, and to bolster some of the good things we are already doing.
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