Conquer Club

Posted: **Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:54 am**

Has anyone else seen this movie?

I bring it up because this forum is the only place I go where I might get a variety of responses and I am genuinely interested (and not trolling, well not yet

)

It's a documentary about an evangelical kids' summer camp in dakota run by a woman called Becky Fischer.

Lots of prayer, singing, speaking in tongues, etc etc. And that's fine. But a few things about this film were scary:
These kids are being indoctrinated. Thereis no other word for it. At the start, this woman talks about the enemy ('muslims') training their kids from the age of 5, and how america has to respond by, er, doing likewise. 'And i'm sorry, but we have the truth,' says Ms Fischer.
These are young kids, utterly impressionable. One 9-year old girl keeps parotting her parents/preachers in a very worrying way. Many are homeschooled by parents with a very shaky grasp of science, to say the least.

I guess my point is: I can understand why parents want to bring their children up in the faith to which they beling, but at what point do you allow children to make their own minds up? is keeping them shut off from the outside world and its influences fair to these kids? If they have 'the truth', what are these people so scared of?
It seems to me to be cruel, in a way, but then i don't believe in god.

PS Ted Haggard makes an appearance, telling his congregations that homosexuality is wrong. Which was a bit of light relief.

Posted: **Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:59 am**

I've seen it - and I agree with you completely. Don't forget the part where they get the cardboard cutout of GWB and pray directly to it.

Posted: **Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:02 am**

I've wished to of seen this since my friend told me about it. To me, it's pretty horrible. Making children cry over God. It is just, so bad.

Posted: **Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:02 am**

I think it was aired here some time ago, I found it by coincidence while channel hopping so I missed the beginning of it. If it was the one you mean it was actually frightening to see what the kids were taught and what they believed.

ps
That part about praying to GWB was ironical though, he wasn't christian enough for them and they saw him as a puppet of big (anti-christian) business if I recall correctly.

Posted: **Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:13 am**

MeDeFe wrote:I think it was aired here some time ago, I found it by coincidence while channel hopping so I missed the beginning of it. If it was the one you mean it was actually frightening to see what the kids were taught and what they believed.

ps
That part about praying to GWB was ironical though, he wasn't christian enough for them and they saw him as a puppet of big (anti-christian) business if I recall correctly.

MeDeFe i don't think irony is in their repertoire, although i do think someone criticises him for that elsewhere in the film.
It's the way that this woman produces a cardboard cut out of GWB, and the kids start wailing and laying their hands on this effigy without even a murmur or a whsipered 'what the hell are we doing?' They are told, 'pray to this' and they do it unquestioningly. They are being taught NOT to think for themselves.

i think brainwashing is not too strong a term. It is inhumane.

Posted: **Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:15 am**

Man, I was just going to make some quip about "Of course Jesus was camp, just go look at the thread about him being a homosexual" etc.

But on actually reading this thread: Yes, brainwashing kids is fucking sick, and I wouldn't be unhappy to see those responsible put to death or imprisoned... really their actions are tantamount to the murder of minds.

Posted: **Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:49 am**

i think the interesting thing is, people on both sides of the documentary believed it portrayed their interests well. If i remember correctly, the woman who ran the Jesus camp was happy with the way the film was done. I think it speaks volumes to how they run their program. Ted haggard was the only one at the time who didnt like his bit, but that was all washed away once the scandel came out.

Posted: **Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:59 am**

I actually went to a week long Bible Camp back in the day. It was friggin unberable. My friends mom was a super JesusFreak and was pestering my friend to go for years. We finally gave in and went just for shits and giggles when we were like 16. We were really just looking to get laid, as you mifght expect. Boy, were we in for a surprise.

I brought my walkman and a bunch of Iron Maiden tapes which got confescated on the bus ride to the camp. When we got there it was straight church every day with brief breaks for basketball or swimming. The dudes and chicks were totally segregated to the point of hardly being able to actually see a chick except for during service (obviously limits the macking opprotunities for which we were even there). Toward the end of each service everyone would make thier way to the altar/stage thing and end up crying on thier knees or "speaking in tongues :roll:

. Me my friend and a couple of other troublemakers were the only kids in our seats biting our nails and looking at the clock while all this silliness was going on.

One day we went on a field trip to some cheesy ass church "amusement park". The day ended up with some service on this rocky outcropingand 4-5 advisors trying to get me and my friend to "get saved". I mean, with the hard sell they were putting on us at this point you would think they got a commission. I finally relented and said"Fine, fine, I accept Jesus as my personal savior, blah blah blah." They bought it and left me alone after that. We kept it light but it could have been a horrible experience. I would have hated to be without a steadfast buddy.

Posted: **Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:56 am**

I considered watching the movie, but I'm pretty sure I'd be disgusted 10-15 minutes in and would have to stop. The scary thing is that the truly hardcore religious (quick note: I don't see the really religious people here as "hardcore", just pious. I refer more to the aforementioned talking in tongues) have to come from somewhere, and those camps probably have a lot of similarities to their childhood in general. I can't say how thankful I am that my parents didn't force either of their religions on me.

Posted: **Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:59 am**

Dancing Mustard wrote:Man, I was just going to make some quip about "Of course Jesus was camp, just go look at the thread about him being a homosexual" etc.

But on actually reading this thread: Yes, brainwashing kids is fucking sick, and I wouldn't be unhappy to see those responsible put to death or imprisoned... really their actions are tantamount to the murder of minds.

They're brainwashed themselves.

Posted: **Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:01 pm**

Napoleon Ier wrote:
Dancing Mustard wrote:Man, I was just going to make some quip about "Of course Jesus was camp, just go look at the thread about him being a homosexual" etc.

But on actually reading this thread: Yes, brainwashing kids is fucking sick, and I wouldn't be unhappy to see those responsible put to death or imprisoned... really their actions are tantamount to the murder of minds.

They're brainwashed themselves.

True. That sort of crap probably goes all the way back to the persecution of heretics in the Middle Ages.

Posted: **Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:06 pm**

I am all for freedom of religion, but in America at least religion has turned into a HUGE money making operation. My wife got her Masters degree at Harvard Divinity School. She was on the academic track while most of her class mates were looking to go into the ministery for various religions.

Some kids were leaving that program for 6 figure starting salaries. Even the lower paying jobs included rent free homes and fat living stipends. It was disgusting seeing all these people begging over their faith and conviction, then turning around and trying to get top dollar for their piousness and knowledge.

This is one reason why I love the Mormons. Not a single religious leader in the mormon church, from local congregations all the way to their prophet gets a dime for their work as ministers. They do not even get homes or stipends like catholic priests and nuns who profess to live lives of poverty. There is not one paid clergy member in the entire mormon church.

In my opinion that should be a law. The trade-off for religious freedom is that you are not allowed to make money from it.

Posted: **Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:51 pm**

unriggable wrote:I've seen it - and I agree with you completely.

Posted: **Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:56 pm**

heavycola wrote:Has anyone else seen this movie?

I bring it up because this forum is the only place I go where I might get a variety of responses and I am genuinely interested (and not trolling, well not yet )

It's a documentary about an evangelical kids' summer camp in dakota run by a woman called Becky Fischer.

Lots of prayer, singing, speaking in tongues, etc etc. And that's fine. But a few things about this film were scary:
These kids are being indoctrinated. Thereis no other word for it. At the start, this woman talks about the enemy ('muslims') training their kids from the age of 5, and how america has to respond by, er, doing likewise. 'And i'm sorry, but we have the truth,' says Ms Fischer.
These are young kids, utterly impressionable. One 9-year old girl keeps parotting her parents/preachers in a very worrying way. Many are homeschooled by parents with a very shaky grasp of science, to say the least.

I guess my point is: I can understand why parents want to bring their children up in the faith to which they beling, but at what point do you allow children to make their own minds up? is keeping them shut off from the outside world and its influences fair to these kids? If they have 'the truth', what are these people so scared of?
It seems to me to be cruel, in a way, but then i don't believe in god.

PS Ted Haggard makes an appearance, telling his congregations that homosexuality is wrong. Which was a bit of light relief.

it's nuts. it really shows how crazy religions can become. that lady talking about warriors for jesus and fake speaking in tougues was amazing.

Posted: **Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:01 pm**

HungrySomali wrote:I actually went to a week long Bible Camp back in the day. It was friggin unberable. My friends mom was a super JesusFreak and was pestering my friend to go for years. We finally gave in and went just for shits and giggles when we were like 16. We were really just looking to get laid, as you mifght expect. Boy, were we in for a surprise.

I brought my walkman and a bunch of Iron Maiden tapes which got confescated on the bus ride to the camp. When we got there it was straight church every day with brief breaks for basketball or swimming. The dudes and chicks were totally segregated to the point of hardly being able to actually see a chick except for during service (obviously limits the macking opprotunities for which we were even there). Toward the end of each service everyone would make thier way to the altar/stage thing and end up crying on thier knees or "speaking in tongues . Me my friend and a couple of other troublemakers were the only kids in our seats biting our nails and looking at the clock while all this silliness was going on.

One day we went on a field trip to some cheesy ass church "amusement park". The day ended up with some service on this rocky outcropingand 4-5 advisors trying to get me and my friend to "get saved". I mean, with the hard sell they were putting on us at this point you would think they got a commission. I finally relented and said"Fine, fine, I accept Jesus as my personal savior, blah blah blah." They bought it and left me alone after that. We kept it light but it could have been a horrible experience. I would have hated to be without a steadfast buddy.

it's crazy to put kids into camps like that. the peer and councilor pressure is very constant and intense. the psycology behind it all is evil. glad you made it out alive. did you get your maiden tapes back?

Posted: **Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:02 pm**

Best horror movie I've ever seen. I was scared out of my mind.

Posted: **Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:27 pm**

mybike_yourface wrote:
HungrySomali wrote:I actually went to a week long Bible Camp back in the day. It was friggin unberable. My friends mom was a super JesusFreak and was pestering my friend to go for years. We finally gave in and went just for shits and giggles when we were like 16. We were really just looking to get laid, as you mifght expect. Boy, were we in for a surprise.

I brought my walkman and a bunch of Iron Maiden tapes which got confescated on the bus ride to the camp. When we got there it was straight church every day with brief breaks for basketball or swimming. The dudes and chicks were totally segregated to the point of hardly being able to actually see a chick except for during service (obviously limits the macking opprotunities for which we were even there). Toward the end of each service everyone would make thier way to the altar/stage thing and end up crying on thier knees or "speaking in tongues . Me my friend and a couple of other troublemakers were the only kids in our seats biting our nails and looking at the clock while all this silliness was going on.

One day we went on a field trip to some cheesy ass church "amusement park". The day ended up with some service on this rocky outcropingand 4-5 advisors trying to get me and my friend to "get saved". I mean, with the hard sell they were putting on us at this point you would think they got a commission. I finally relented and said"Fine, fine, I accept Jesus as my personal savior, blah blah blah." They bought it and left me alone after that. We kept it light but it could have been a horrible experience. I would have hated to be without a steadfast buddy.

it's crazy to put kids into camps like that. the peer and councilor pressure is very constant and intense. the psycology behind it all is evil. glad you made it out alive. did you get your maiden tapes back?

Defenitly. On the bus ride home.

Posted: **Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:28 pm**

HungrySomali wrote:I actually went to a week long Bible Camp back in the day. ... We were really just looking to get laid, as you mifght expect.

This was where you went wrong...

Posted: **Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:30 pm**

Guiscard wrote:
HungrySomali wrote:I actually went to a week long Bible Camp back in the day. ... We were really just looking to get laid, as you mifght expect.

This was where you went wrong...

I've got to say, good point. The name "Bible Camp" immediately throws up red flags sex-wise. For me at least.

Posted: **Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:38 pm**

Guiscard wrote:
HungrySomali wrote:I actually went to a week long Bible Camp back in the day. ... We were really just looking to get laid, as you mifght expect.
This was where you went wrong...

On the other hand, twenty bonus points for good use of the word 'macking'.

Posted: **Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:07 pm**

Neoteny wrote:Best horror movie I've ever seen. I was scared out of my mind.

I truly didn't know whether to laugh (which i did at the Ted Haggard part) or be severely concerned about this. In the end I did my best to not think about it. What can you say to someone who has such total and intense faith in something so absurdly terrifying?

Posted: **Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:32 pm**

Guiscard wrote:
HungrySomali wrote:I actually went to a week long Bible Camp back in the day. ... We were really just looking to get laid, as you mifght expect.

This was where you went wrong...

I dunno. We used to have quite a lot of success with Father O'Riordan. It was a boys only camp though

Posted: **Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:30 pm**

Fieryo wrote:
Neoteny wrote:Best horror movie I've ever seen. I was scared out of my mind.

I truly didn't know whether to laugh (which i did at the Ted Haggard part) or be severely concerned about this. In the end I did my best to not think about it. What can you say to someone who has such total and intense faith in something so absurdly terrifying?

Most of my reactions were uncomfortable chuckles. Haggard I was aware of in the past, and had (in jest) predicted he would make an ass out of himself (which he did beyond my wildest expectations). The worst part about it was that the people seriously did not think there was anything wrong with killing in the name of Christ.

Posted: **Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:29 pm**

I like Haggard. I mean, he doesn't seem like somebody who actually believes the things he says, but at least he's funny.

Posted: **Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:30 pm**

unriggable wrote:I like Haggard. I mean, he doesn't seem like somebody who actually believes the things he says, but at least he's funny.

What's even funnier is that he actually managed to own Dawkins in "Religion : The Root of All Evil"

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