Conquer Club

A Church of England bishop has sought police assistance after receiving death threats over an article which claimed Islamist radicals had turned some parts of the country into hostile "no-go areas" for non-Muslims.

The Bishop of Rochester, the Right Reverend Dr Michael Nazir-Ali, said calls had been made to his home in Kent threatening himself and his family.

Kent Police would not say if the bishop had been given police protection, adding it did not comment on matters of personal security.

The Rev Canon Tony Smith, chaplain to the bishop, said police had looked into the calls, and steps had been taken to ensure the bishop's safety.

"We are getting on with life," he added.

The Pakistan-born cleric had written in an article in the Sunday Telegraph last month that non-Muslims found it hard to live and work in these separated communities, comparing the hostility to the intimidation associated with some supporters of far-right political parties.

"There has been a worldwide resurgence of the ideology of Islamic extremism," the bishop had written.

"One of the results of this has been to further alienate the young from the nation in which they were growing up and also to turn already separate communities into "no-go" areas where adherence to this ideology has become a mark of acceptability.

"Those of a different faith or race may find it difficult to live or work there because of hostility to them."

But the bishop attempted to clarify his comments, writing on his Web site that the phrase "no-go" was meant to imply parallel lives and self-contained communities rather than segregation similar to that which had existed in some neighbourhoods in Northern Ireland in the past.

"I made clear in the article that my comments were about the particular impact of Islamic extremism and were not about Muslims in general," he added.

Nazir-Ali, who was appointed in 1994, said the best way of welcoming and integrating newer arrivals in this country should have been "a Christian vision of hospitality and not the secular policy of multiculturalism which has led to such disastrous consequences".

Referring to the threats, he said it was critically important to encourage discussion not diminish it, and that he had received overwhelming support in his "overflowing postbag".

"I was aware that what I had written would cause a debate on the issue but I have been surprised at its scale," he wrote.

"I deeply regret any hurt and do not wish to cause offence to anyone, let alone by Muslim friends."

your views on this

Shock horror extremists exist.

That's completely unfair and wrong, we are not teh violent. Take it back or we kill you!!

bump

::Trying not to get involved::

ok, infidel...

Guiscard wrote:Shock horror extremists exist.

I'm scared!! I do hope they won't hurt us....let's give them benefits, homes, rights to do whatever the f*ck they please in our country, and hey, whilst we're at it, invent a range of names to insult and denigrate the people who decide to take a stand against them, hopefully we might thus appease our muslim overlords. I'm off to my madrasa now.

Napoleon Ier wrote:

Guiscard wrote:Shock horror extremists exist.

I'm scared!! I do hope they won't hurt us....let's give them benefits, homes, rights to do whatever the f*ck they please in our country, and hey, whilst we're at it, invent a range of names to insult and denigrate the people who decide to take a stand against them, hopefully we might thus appease our muslim overlords. I'm off to my madrasa now.

I like how skillfully you employ such literary techniques as hyperbole in your arguments.

EDIT: oops, I forgot hyperbole meant exaggeration and not sarcasm Ah well, for this post it means sarcasm!

InkL0sed wrote:

Napoleon Ier wrote:

Guiscard wrote:Shock horror extremists exist.

I'm scared!! I do hope they won't hurt us....let's give them benefits, homes, rights to do whatever the f*ck they please in our country, and hey, whilst we're at it, invent a range of names to insult and denigrate the people who decide to take a stand against them, hopefully we might thus appease our muslim overlords. I'm off to my madrasa now.

I like how skillfully you employ such literary techniques as hyperbole in your arguments.

EDIT: oops, I forgot hyperbole meant exaggeration and not sarcasm Ah well, for this post it means sarcasm!

Hopefully he's exaggerating

silence, i kill you!

It just goes to show you that when you speak the truth, you better expect some consciences. Although in this case I'm positive that his comments were misunderstood. At the same time, you can't blame Muslims completely. If I was Muslim, I would take offence to his comments because of the growing steriotype against Muslims. You can deny it all you want. The truth is though that Muslims are becoming a hated people and to make comments like he did only adds to the hate that's growing around the world. We as people of earth have really got to watch what we say. There's no sense in adding fuel to the fire by making cimments that can so easily be misunderstood.

Peace is an illusion that only results in sin.

2dimes wrote:That's completely unfair and wrong, we are not teh violent. Take it back or we kill you!!

you know someone actually said that? And said it seriously

Gregrios wrote:

Peace is an illusion that only results in sin.

Uh huh. And war is the only way to continually cleanse the collective human soul?

Napoleon Ier wrote:
I'm scared!! I do hope they won't hurt us....let's give them benefits, homes, rights to do whatever the f*ck they please in our country, and hey, whilst we're at it, invent a range of names to insult and denigrate the people who decide to take a stand against them, hopefully we might thus appease our muslim overlords. I'm off to my madrasa now.

Locking them out and discriminating against them is a good idea now? Ignoring the fact that this stands directly against more or less everything modern Western civilization does, it won't work. People do not react well to locked doors.

Napoleon Ier wrote:

Guiscard wrote:Shock horror extremists exist.

I'm scared!! I do hope they won't hurt us....let's give them benefits, homes, rights to do whatever the f*ck they please in our country, and hey, whilst we're at it, invent a range of names to insult and denigrate the people who decide to take a stand against them, hopefully we might thus appease our muslim overlords. I'm off to my madrasa now.

For once I think you've made a good point, even though you're being a little silly about it. Bending over backwards to make extremists think we mean them no harm is stupid. I used to think that if we tried to make nicey nice with them they might leave us alone but it looks like they're determined to force people to accept their idea of what Islam should be like.

I guess the way i see it, religion has historical been practiced (ie shaped) by the cultural contexts it finds itself in. In some periods, religions are very hostile toward one another and in some periods they are more concilatory. Currently we live in a period where numbers of religious individuals of a few different faiths, albeit not a majority percentage of either faith, are taking up more hostile stances. Many of those people do not plan on moving from the stances they hold, even if it doesnt necessarily mean they are going to attempt to harm anyone physically, rather just exert the influence of their ideas (nothing new secular or religious).

The problem lies in what exactly do you do about it. One approach, as adopted by one of my housemates who plays quite a bit of a xbox live, often shouts into his headset..."You do not negotiate with Terrorists!" as he shoots down one of his enemies. To a point this works, you just try to remove the threat, deal with negative latent consequences as they arise and hope that your way of life comes out to the good.

On a personal level, i have misgivings about this approach though. I do think there is a real danger that in order to fight an ideology, you have to turn and grab one of your own. Typically civic ideologies tend to have some pretty negative results. I think theres a real issue of becoming the enemy you try to fight, which does not often get solved by the first approach.

silvanricky wrote:

Napoleon Ier wrote:

Guiscard wrote:Shock horror extremists exist.

I'm scared!! I do hope they won't hurt us....let's give them benefits, homes, rights to do whatever the f*ck they please in our country, and hey, whilst we're at it, invent a range of names to insult and denigrate the people who decide to take a stand against them, hopefully we might thus appease our muslim overlords. I'm off to my madrasa now.

For once I think you've made a good point, even though you're being a little silly about it. Bending over backwards to make extremists think we mean them no harm is stupid. I used to think that if we tried to make nicey nice with them they might leave us alone but it looks like they're determined to force people to accept their idea of what Islam should be like.

I think the main problem is the extremists haven't actually seen much of the US' fabled "mercy". Tanks, bombers, cruise mssiles and occupation don't spell "we come in peace" as far as I'm aware. True, the US is rebuilding, but things are barely back to where they were before the US invaded. Really, the extremists have seen nothing but the pointy end of the stick. How are they supposed to gain an image of the US as a peaceful nation from the shattered remains of their brother's house?

Neutrino wrote:I think the main problem is the extremists haven't actually seen much of the US' fabled "mercy". Tanks, bombers, cruise mssiles and occupation don't spell "we come in peace" as far as I'm aware. True, the US is rebuilding, but things are barely back to where they were before the US invaded. Really, the extremists have seen nothing but the pointy end of the stick. How are they supposed to gain an image of the US as a peaceful nation from the shattered remains of their brother's house?

WTF!! Are you trying to say America is to blame for these people murdering innocents?

i believe what he is trying to say is, its hard to necessarily sell to the perhaps more moderate or even less ideologicaly firm fundamentalists, that you are interested in negotiation and peacemaking, when you continually have positions that stand in opposition to arabic and islamic interest in the region.

No, I'm just saying that I haven't heard of the US showing everyone it's "peace face" as much as you seem to insist it has.

silvanricky wrote:

Neutrino wrote:I think the main problem is the extremists haven't actually seen much of the US' fabled "mercy". Tanks, bombers, cruise mssiles and occupation don't spell "we come in peace" as far as I'm aware. True, the US is rebuilding, but things are barely back to where they were before the US invaded. Really, the extremists have seen nothing but the pointy end of the stick. How are they supposed to gain an image of the US as a peaceful nation from the shattered remains of their brother's house?

WTF!! Are you trying to say America is to blame for these people murdering innocents?

This is one of the major right-wing fallacies. If you criticise the state of America, or the UK, then somehow you are agreeing with the Terrorist 'side'. I can (and do) disapprove of Terrorism, or Islamic fundamentalism, and categorically do not think it should be tolerated. You'd be hard to find many on the left who 'approve' of extremism. The difference is that we believe you can seek to explain it, and to act on the factors present in our own society which aggravate the situation, without 'accepting' terrorism as right. The Bush and Blairisms of 'right and wrong' are not necessarily as clear as those on the right make out. Your reactionary exclamation is a perfect example of this dangerous mindset.

Iliad wrote:

2dimes wrote:That's completely unfair and wrong, we are not teh violent. Take it back or we kill you!!

you know someone actually said that? And said it seriously

Yeah, that's what makes it funny. I don't have a problem with muslims either. I've had some plesant aquantinces that were moderate muslims.

Religion just tends to mess with people and give them that, "join us or you suck" attitude.

It's actually hilarious as long as there isn't the "Something has to be done about those that can't see our truth." thing going on.

I do take issue with the quoran plainly calling for "convert or be killed." fortunatly at this time most muslims deny it's there.

well that's good to know Neutrino. I have heard people say that America created the problem. I think this gives the right-wing talk show hosts ammunition. Then i've got to deal with that in class from all the Rush Limbaugh followers. Glad to see you haven't totally gone off that cliff.

Guiscard if you think that I'm a right winger then you are mistaken. I get totally frustrated with both the left and right. there are probably good solutions from both sides. The thing is nobody wants to listen to the other side and then we get our own version of extremism. We argue with ourselves instead. Glad to see that you also oppose the terrorists.

Guiscard wrote:

silvanricky wrote:

Neutrino wrote:I think the main problem is the extremists haven't actually seen much of the US' fabled "mercy". Tanks, bombers, cruise mssiles and occupation don't spell "we come in peace" as far as I'm aware. True, the US is rebuilding, but things are barely back to where they were before the US invaded. Really, the extremists have seen nothing but the pointy end of the stick. How are they supposed to gain an image of the US as a peaceful nation from the shattered remains of their brother's house?

WTF!! Are you trying to say America is to blame for these people murdering innocents?

This is one of the major right-wing fallacies. If you criticise the state of America, or the UK, then somehow you are agreeing with the Terrorist 'side'. I can (and do) disapprove of Terrorism, or Islamic fundamentalism, and categorically do not think it should be tolerated. You'd be hard to find many on the left who 'approve' of extremism. The difference is that we believe you can seek to explain it, and to act on the factors present in our own society which aggravate the situation, without 'accepting' terrorism as right. The Bush and Blairisms of 'right and wrong' are not necessarily as clear as those on the right make out. Your reactionary exclamation is a perfect example of this dangerous mindset.

It's that kind of narrowed minded non sense that is making Muslims a hated people. Muslims are NOT all extremists. So to say that a person that criticises the US(etc) is somehow agreeing with terrorists is COMPLETE BULL SHIT! In your statement you are combining terrorists and Muslims into the same group. When the truth is that well over half of Muslims in the Middle East don't believe in violence against the US in anyway. Sure, most Muslims follow the Islamic religion but by no means do they all agree with terrorism. The same goes for others who disagree with what the US is doing. I suggest pulling your ignorance mind out of the sand and get with the program.

This really got me fired up. Can you tell?

Gregrios wrote:Sure, most Muslims follow the Islamic religion

yeah that sure would make them Muslims all right