Conquer Club

Snorri, or indeed any other of our dutch brothers and sisters:

What have the social and/or economic conseqeunces of decriminalising cannabis been in the Netherlands?

Is everyone too stoned? Is there more or less crime? more or less problems with hard drugs?
That sort of thing.

I am interested. And sober.

heavycola wrote:Snorri, or indeed any other of our dutch brothers and sisters:

What have the social and/or economic conseqeunces of decriminalising cannabis been in the Netherlands?

Is everyone too stoned? Is there more or less crime? more or less problems with hard drugs?
That sort of thing.

I am interested. And sober.

OK, I'm going into this with the assumption that you're kidding. That said, I'm doing a search on "Netherlands cannibalism". OK, there. I just had to make sure. Phew.

CANNABIS... POT!!!

Not cannibals!

Legalizing cannibalism... can't imagine that even the redoubtable Orange would go for that. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the pet cause of some Amsterdam legislator, though. We should keep an eye on him.
Frigidus started it...

heavycola wrote:Snorri, or indeed any other of our dutch brothers and sisters:

What have the social and/or economic conseqeunces of decriminalising cannabis been in the Netherlands?

Is everyone too stoned? Is there more or less crime? more or less problems with hard drugs?
That sort of thing.

I am interested. And sober.

Sadly, it has not been really decriminalised. You won't get arrested for selling or carrying, but growing it is illegal if it's more than 5 plants (i.e. if it's not for personal use). This ofcourse means that canabis bought in shops is still the result of criminals who have large grow-facilities and are generally real violent asses. (Noone saw that one coming ofcourse....) What is even more worrying now is that the government is making plans to recriminalise it, even though reseach shows we use less than a bunch of other european countries and it would only futher crime. The government says they're doing it because they believe it's morally wrong. Holy crap, they're a bunch of fucking retards.

We do have less problems with hard drugs, though that's due to other policies like giving free heroin to users. Sadly, they're also planning to cancel those.

Basically, the consequences were rather splendid till those bastards tried to mess with it.

Really, I'm more interested in the economics. f*ck what other people think of me, they can get over it. I want to know if it'll be more or less expensive.

Anarkistsdream wrote:CANNABIS... POT!!!

Not cannibals!

Oh. The scientific name. I see. Well this is hardly news.

Neoteny wrote:Really, I'm more interested in the economics. f*ck what other people think of me, they can get over it. I want to know if it'll be more or less expensive.

At the moment it's far less expensive, but that is possibly because there are no taxes on it.

I pay about 150 euros an ounce or something, but I believe our pot is about 4 times as strong as yours.

Snorri1234 wrote:This of course means that cannabis bought in shops is still the result of criminals who have large grow-facilities and are generally real violent asses.

This is an eye opener to me. I would of thought the number 1 reason to decriminalise weed would be to remove the crime element. I always assumed the dutch government would control/cultivate the supply to the legal cafes.

Snorri1234 wrote:

Neoteny wrote:Really, I'm more interested in the economics. f*ck what other people think of me, they can get over it. I want to know if it'll be more or less expensive.

At the moment it's far less expensive, but that is possibly because there are no taxes on it.

I pay about 150 euros an ounce or something, but I believe our pot is about 4 times as strong as yours.

Ahhh, the age old "Mine is better than yours" theory... Region means fuckall when it comes to strength... It dpeends on how it was grown, not where.

Anarkistsdream wrote:

Snorri1234 wrote:

Neoteny wrote:Really, I'm more interested in the economics. f*ck what other people think of me, they can get over it. I want to know if it'll be more or less expensive.

At the moment it's far less expensive, but that is possibly because there are no taxes on it.

I pay about 150 euros an ounce or something, but I believe our pot is about 4 times as strong as yours.

Ahhh, the age old "Mine is better than yours" theory... Region means fuckall when it comes to strength... It dpeends on how it was grown, not where.

And the genetics, as well. With all the globalization we're experiencing, I doubt that really matters. Did you know it's really hard to find a cut and dry list of various factors and how they relate to cannabinoid production? You'd think one of us amateur scientists would be willing to run a few iterations of tests to categorically define these things. I think I just heard my calling...

pot scientist!

I have grown a bunch... And I know how to do it well here in Oklahoma without a greenhouse. However, a greenhouse or another region would change the factors considerably.

And, Neo, when you find your calling, make sure I'm a test subject!

Anarkistsdream wrote:I have grown a bunch... And I know how to do it well here in Oklahoma without a greenhouse. However, a greenhouse or another region would change the factors considerably.

And, Neo, when you find your calling, make sure I'm a test subject!

Surely.

Neoteny wrote:

Anarkistsdream wrote:

Snorri1234 wrote:

Neoteny wrote:Really, I'm more interested in the economics. f*ck what other people think of me, they can get over it. I want to know if it'll be more or less expensive.

At the moment it's far less expensive, but that is possibly because there are no taxes on it.

I pay about 150 euros an ounce or something, but I believe our pot is about 4 times as strong as yours.

Ahhh, the age old "Mine is better than yours" theory... Region means fuckall when it comes to strength... It dpeends on how it was grown, not where.

hehe Christ. honestly the Skunk Strains engineered in Holland genuinely do hold multiple times the THC compared with other parts of the world. (you must remember this is almost exclusively hydroponically grown, so region does matter ... in as much as they get intensive light and the perfect balance of nutrients passed through rockwall i think it's called) I am told that it gets to more than 20% compared with about 7% with the strongest US strains and around 3 -4 % without too much tinkering... you could be right though Neo.. i am sure some pot-mentalists have imported some seeds by now... Try out the Jack Hera if you get the chance it is a bloody marvel ... oooh white-widow..mixed with a little Orange Bud... !

chesus! a potent Dutch herb is not for the feint-hearted.

Pedronicus wrote:

Snorri1234 wrote:This of course means that cannabis bought in shops is still the result of criminals who have large grow-facilities and are generally real violent asses.

This is an eye opener to me. I would of thought the number 1 reason to decriminalise weed would be to remove the crime element. I always assumed the dutch government would control/cultivate the supply to the legal cafes.

Yeah you would think so, but you'd be forgetting how stupid governments are.

There are a number of political parties who want to legalize it, but they just don't get enough votes.

jiminski wrote:hehe Christ. honestly the Skunk Strains engineered in Holland genuinely do hold multiple times the THC compared with other parts of the world. (you must remember this is almost exclusively hydroponically grown, so region does matter ... in as much as they get intensive light and the perfect balance of nutrients passed through rockwall i think it's called) I am told that it gets to more than 20% compared with about 7% with the strongest US strains and around 3 -4 % without too much tinkering... you could be right though Neo.. i am sure some pot-mentalists have imported some seeds by now... Try out the Jack Hera if you get the chance it is a bloody marvel ... oooh white-widow..mixed with a little Orange Bud... !

chesus! a potent Dutch herb is not for the feint-hearted.

Word. White widow is some potent shit.

A gram of the middle-price stuff gets two people utterly stoned, depending on whether they're experienced users or not.

Snorri1234 wrote:

Pedronicus wrote:

Snorri1234 wrote:This of course means that cannabis bought in shops is still the result of criminals who have large grow-facilities and are generally real violent asses.

This is an eye opener to me. I would of thought the number 1 reason to decriminalise weed would be to remove the crime element. I always assumed the dutch government would control/cultivate the supply to the legal cafes.

Yeah you would think so, but you'd be forgetting how stupid governments are.

There are a number of political parties who want to legalize it, but they just don't get enough votes.

Vote for them. Unless they're actually Nazis, then don't. Anything else, I want Snorri's vote for these guys.

And word to the white widow. Even the placebo effect of thinking I was smoking widow got me in rarefied air.
w

Now I can't wait to get home and chief...

jiminski wrote:

Neoteny wrote:

Anarkistsdream wrote:

Snorri1234 wrote:

Neoteny wrote:Really, I'm more interested in the economics. f*ck what other people think of me, they can get over it. I want to know if it'll be more or less expensive.

At the moment it's far less expensive, but that is possibly because there are no taxes on it.

I pay about 150 euros an ounce or something, but I believe our pot is about 4 times as strong as yours.

Ahhh, the age old "Mine is better than yours" theory... Region means fuckall when it comes to strength... It dpeends on how it was grown, not where.

hehe Christ. honestly the Skunk Strains engineered in Holland genuinely do hold multiple times the THC compared with other parts of the world. (you must remember this is almost exclusively hydroponically grown, so region does matter ... in as much as they get intensive light and the perfect balance of nutrients passed through rockwall i think it's called) I am told that it gets to more than 20% compared with about 7% with the strongest US strains and around 3 -4 % without too much tinkering... you could be right though Neo.. i am sure some pot-mentalists have imported some seeds by now... Try out the Jack Hera if you get the chance it is a bloody marvel ... oooh white-widow..mixed with a little Orange Bud... !

chesus! a potent Dutch herb is not for the feint-hearted.

hear hear. Jack Herer permanently altered my brain chemistry.

Er... also, thanks for your commenst Snorri. I'm sorry to hear the govt is backtracking - i'd better get over there for a farewell party soon... up for a beer?

That's it. When I get done with my errands today, I'm going to sit down and see if I can find anything on this stuff in a peer reviewed article.

Frigidus wrote:Well this is hardly news.

this isn't a news thread, it's more of a question one.

heavycola wrote:Er... also, thanks for your commenst Snorri. I'm sorry to hear the govt is backtracking - i'd better get over there for a farewell party soon... up for a beer?

Sure thing.

Vote for them. Unless they're actually Nazis, then don't. Anything else, I want Snorri's vote for these guys.

Well I would if they weren't a bunch of former commies.
Besides, they'll never get into the gov anyway. The biggest parties are right-wing and christians, who don't like people to do what they want.

Snorri1234 wrote:The biggest parties are right-wing and christians, who don't like people to do what they want.

And you can't just tell them to go be politicians in, say for example, jay-land?

heavycola wrote:Snorri, or indeed any other of our dutch brothers and sisters:

What have the social and/or economic conseqeunces of decriminalising cannabis been in the Netherlands?

Is everyone too stoned? Is there more or less crime? more or less problems with hard drugs?
That sort of thing.

I am interested. And sober.

I have never been in Holland, but have lived in another area noted for its (albiet illegal) use of pot. I have seen go from something that "yea old hippies" would grow in their backyards to high crime. What caused it? Reagan's anti marihauna campaign. When the property seizure laws came into play we started seeing folks growing in public lands (forest, range, etc.). They would protect their crops with traps not seen since vietnahm, according to a lot of ex vets.

Interestingly, it wasn't so long ago that farmers were paid by the government to grow hemp(close relative, if you aren't aware ... so close that it is essentially the same plant), used then for rope. Hemp, devoid of the "toxin" (yeah, I know no fun, but anyway ...) is a nutritious food item, the fibers make wonderfully durable and practical clothing. One acre of hemp will replace a huge number of acres of forest for paper (I think around 50, but cannot find reference)

I was always on the fence about this up until I attended an alternative energy rally. One of the booths was in favor of hemp uses, expounding on its positive uses. Downtown, there were protestors with signs saying "say no to drugs". I went closer, expecting to see some fellow church members or such. I did not recognize one... not a SINGLE ONE. It turns out they were all PAID EMPLOYEES of a big paper mill nearby. Why? Because hemp is a direct competitor of wood pulp for paper. Except... they were not saying "save our jobs". No, they used "drugs" as the issue. I have found far too much of that kind of hypocrisy in this issue.

Further, as an EMT, though we often sw results of drunk drivers, we did not see the same effects from marihuana. NOW, that was a few years ago. Teh stuff available now is much stronger and, I have heard DOES impair driving. However, back then, it didn't.

I wish it were legalized, taxed and regulated like alchohol.

PLAYER57832 wrote:

heavycola wrote:Snorri, or indeed any other of our dutch brothers and sisters:

What have the social and/or economic conseqeunces of decriminalising cannabis been in the Netherlands?

Is everyone too stoned? Is there more or less crime? more or less problems with hard drugs?
That sort of thing.

I am interested. And sober.

I have never been in Holland, but have lived in another area noted for its (albiet illegal) use of pot. I have seen go from something that "yea old hippies" would grow in their backyards to high crime. What caused it? Reagan's anti marihauna campaign. When the property seizure laws came into play we started seeing folks growing in public lands (forest, range, etc.). They would protect their crops with traps not seen since vietnahm, according to a lot of ex vets.

Interestingly, it wasn't so long ago that farmers were paid by the government to grow hemp(close relative, if you aren't aware ... so close that it is essentially the same plant), used then for rope. Hemp, devoid of the "toxin" (yeah, I know no fun, but anyway ...) is a nutritious food item, the fibers make wonderfully durable and practical clothing. One acre of hemp will replace a huge number of acres of forest for paper (I think around 50, but cannot find reference)

I was always on the fence about this up until I attended an alternative energy rally. One of the booths was in favor of hemp uses, expounding on its positive uses. Downtown, there were protestors with signs saying "say no to drugs". I went closer, expecting to see some fellow church members or such. I did not recognize one... not a SINGLE ONE. It turns out they were all PAID EMPLOYEES of a big paper mill nearby. Why? Because hemp is a direct competitor of wood pulp for paper. Except... they were not saying "save our jobs". No, they used "drugs" as the issue. I have found far too much of that kind of hypocrisy in this issue.

Further, as an EMT, though we often sw results of drunk drivers, we did not see the same effects from marihuana. NOW, that was a few years ago. Teh stuff available now is much stronger and, I have heard DOES impair driving. However, back then, it didn't.

I wish it were legalized, taxed and regulated like alchohol.

Everyone wants that, but we ain't Dutch, brother. The same private company's that run the prisons here write the laws here too. Pot is the biggest business maker for them. This country is F-ed up. Especially since the CIA controls 80% of the worlds HEROIN, and nearly 90% of its opiates(Afghanistan). Right stoners?

But we ain't Dutch, so this is neither the time or the place.....