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The State of Beer in Britain

PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:37 pm
by Iz Man
From AP:
http://www.pr-inside.com/british-pub-in-peril-as-beer-r725770.htm
LONDON (AP) — The traditional British pub is in peril.
Squeezed by a nationwide smoking ban, rising costs, competition from supermarkets and the economic downturn, the pub industry reported Monday that beer sales have fallen to their lowest level since the Great Depression.
Pub managers around the country are now pulling some 14 million pints a day,
1.6 million fewer than last year and 7 million less than at the height of the market in 1979.
The pressures on the industry are speeding up a long-term decline _ more than 1,400 pubs called last orders for the final time in 2007 and the Campaign for Real Ale claims that more than half Britain's villages are «dry» for the first time since the Norman Conquest of 1066.
Rob Hayward, the chief executive of the British Beer and Pub Association, whose members brew 98 percent of Britain's beer and include nearly two-thirds of the country's pubs, urged the government to rethink heavy taxes which the industry blames in large part for its woes.
«We need a change of approach from the government,» Hayward said. «Brewing is a major industry, beer our national drink and pubs a treasured part of our national culture.
The group's Quarterly Beer Barometer revealed that total beer sales were 4.5 percent lower between April and June this year, compared with the same quarter last year.
Beer sales in pubs fell even further, sinking 10.6 percent, while sales in shops and supermarkets rose 3.8 percent.
Pubs have repeatedly criticized supermarkets for selling multipacks of drinks at below cost to entice custom.
However, there are fears that the sliding pub beer sales will have the effect of spurring on another, less attractive, aspect of British culture as cash-strapped pub owners return to sales promotions that encourage binge drinking _ such as selling cheap drinks until a team scores in a soccer match.
Around half of Britain's 57,000 pubs have ditched a voluntary code banning aggressive happy-hour deals and other promotions after the beer and pub organization said it could be in breach of European competition law, prompting police to call on the government to step in. That has raised speculation about an intense price war among pubs in Britain's major cities and towns.
«Sadly, the trade repeatedly shows that it cannot be relied upon to consistently act in a responsible way,» said Chris Allison, a spokesman for the Association of Chief Police Officers.
Some pubs are beefing up the food side of the business to make up for declining beer sales. Mitchells & Butlers, Britain's second largest pub group, revealed last week that beer now accounts for just a quarter of all revenue but that it now serves some 110 million meals to customers each year.
Enterprise Inns, which has about 7,700 pubs, said it has had to give more help to licensees who are having to cope with difficult trading conditions.
After battling with the smoking ban in England, which marked its first anniversary this month, the pub chain said it was struggling to cope with pressures on consumers' disposable income, such as high mortgage costs, petrol prices and gloomy sentiment.
However, in good news for the trade, some consumers suggested that traditional pubs could survive by transforming to meet new demand.
Ian White, 44, an IT director for a hospital, a nonsmoker visiting London from Leeds with his wife and three sons, said he goes to the pub more these days.
«They're increasingly more friendly to families, the quality of the food has increased,» White said. «The ones that are closing aren't seeing the threat and the opportunity. Their old clientèle who just wanted to booze and smoke are less inclined to go, but people like me are more inclined to go.


To our good friends from across the pond:
Please go out and support what is one of your national treasures.......the local pub.


CHEERS !

Re: British Pubs In Peril ?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:39 pm
by Anarkistsdream
Yep, I read about this last week.

Pretty crappy... I'm a drunk, so I don't know what I'd do.

Re: British Pubs In Peril ?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:41 pm
by Iz Man
Anarkistsdream wrote:Yep, I read about this last week.

Pretty crappy... I'm a drunk, so I don't know what I'd do.

Get over to the nearest pub and start drinking ! 8-)

Re: British Pubs In Peril ?

PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:04 pm
by jonesthecurl
Yeah, in my old village when I went back the other week, one pub was now a thai food joint, one had tried to go upmarket (and taken out the quiz machine!) and the other looked quieter than usual.
I think the smoking thing has a lot to do with it.
Once more people have given up, they'll head back to the pubs.

Re: British Pubs In Peril ?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:28 am
by Nickbaldwin
I've done my bit today. Me and my dad were the only ones in however.

Re: British Pubs In Peril ?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:27 am
by Prestor Jack
not the first time an overreaching mandate impacted a lot more than it intended to.

nobody likes to be called a fascist, but if you can't slowly kill your ownself with beer and cigs because of public fear you're blowing smoke in the faces of babies then what word should be used? "progressive" should mean something else entirely.

saying this as a nonsmoker who respects the rules laid down by the business and property owners. if they want to run a smoke-free bar, let them. they don't need parliament to inform them as to what brings in customers.

Re: British Pubs In Peril ?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:43 pm
by Snorri1234
Prestor Jack wrote:saying this as a nonsmoker who respects the rules laid down by the business and property owners. if they want to run a smoke-free bar, let them. they don't need parliament to inform them as to what brings in customers.


Exactly. If a bar want's to prohibit smoking, then it's fine with me and I might even visit occasionally if it's a cool bar. But don't prohibit something that the majority of the people really don't fucking care about.

Shit, in our country the smoking ban has been put into place "to protect the personnel from having to breathe in smoke" while the vast majority of barmen I know smoke. It's clear the government has been influenced by the anti-smoking lobby.

I mean, I know smoking is bad for you (though second-hand smoke isn't nearly as bad as the anti-smokers make you believe) but honestly you can overdo it.

Re: British Pubs In Peril ?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:05 pm
by Pedronicus
I went to a new pub today because I'm an alcoholic .

Re: British Pubs In Peril ?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:30 pm
by Snorri1234
Pedronicus wrote:I went to a new pub today because I'm an alcoholic .


It's not alcoholic, it's "psychoactive drug challenged".

Re: British Pubs In Peril ?

PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:28 pm
by MeDeFe
I bought and drank a sixpack of Guiness today.

Re: British Pubs In Peril ?

PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:08 am
by jonesthecurl
MeDeFe wrote:I bought and drank a sixpack of Guiness today.


But not in a pub.

Re: British Pubs In Peril ?

PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:41 am
by MeDeFe
jonesthecurl wrote:
MeDeFe wrote:I bought and drank a sixpack of Guiness today.

But not in a pub.

That's true, but I nevertheless supported a brand from the British Isles.

Re: British Pubs In Peril ?

PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:49 am
by DaGip
Brit pubs...we don't have any here in South Dakota.

Re: British Pubs In Peril ?

PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:51 am
by 2dimes
DaGip wrote:Brit pubs...we don't have any here in South Dakota.
You all ready failed them by drinking in the bushes, they had to close.

Re: British Pubs In Peril ?

PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:30 am
by jonesthecurl
Da Gip, I love the new avi. That's one of all-time favourite cartoons.
Now, one last time, what season is it?

Re: British Pubs In Peril ?

PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:01 pm
by DAZMCFC
are the British Boozer. nowadays it's too dear to buy a pint. in the City Centres it's all Alco-pops and shit like that, sure there are still quite a few pubs where you can get Real Ale.


a couple of weeks ago, there was an article in a national paper about an Asain man bought a pub in West Bromwich(near Birmingham in the midlands). he bought so many barrles that he could sell his beer at 89p a pint. that is the cheapest in Britain. instead of getting just a few people in every night, he was getting a lot more in just for a couple of pints before going home.


now surely if this man can do this, the big breweries could quite easily do this also. then we would not see so many pubs closing down. in the last 20 years in my area alone i could count upto 40 pubs that i know of with only 1 opening up as a new build pub. scary, but not as many people are going out locally and as often.

Re: British Pubs In Peril ?

PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:41 pm
by Iz Man
DAZMCFC wrote:are the British Boozer. nowadays it's too dear to buy a pint. in the City Centres it's all Alco-pops and shit like that, sure there are still quite a few pubs where you can get Real Ale.
a couple of weeks ago, there was an article in a national paper about an Asain man bought a pub in West Bromwich(near Birmingham in the midlands). he bought so many barrles that he could sell his beer at 89p a pint. that is the cheapest in Britain. instead of getting just a few people in every night, he was getting a lot more in just for a couple of pints before going home.
now surely if this man can do this, the big breweries could quite easily do this also. then we would not see so many pubs closing down. in the last 20 years in my area alone i could count upto 40 pubs that i know of with only 1 opening up as a new build pub. scary, but not as many people are going out locally and as often.
I would be hesitant to "lay blame" on the breweries, if that is what your assertion that "the big breweries could quite easily do this" means.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but English pubs by in large (certainly may be exceptions) do not brew their own beer on premises, but rather buy the beer they serve from the local breweries and/or distributors. The growing trend in the U.S. for the past 20 years has been to brew the beer the pub serves on the premises. This affords the American Brew Pub to offer a cheaper pint because its brewed right there. Smoking ban or not (we've got plenty of those big brother laws here too).
Now a barrel of beer costs the pub what the brewery/distributor charges. If the man bought many barrels and got a discount, then he certainly needed enough capital to buy more than a "normal" purchase. This is not possible for every pub owner. It is also not the brewery's "fault". The brewery needs to make a profit, just like any other business. Unfortunately with the hop & barley shortage of the past year, the price of beer has gone up considerably across the globe. The price will go down again once the hop harvests come in 2009.

So is it a "cultural thing"? Man I hope not.

When the Germans & Czechs (and everyone else for that matter) started brewing lagers & pilsners; the English, Scots, & Irish all said "screw that, we want our ales!", and kept to them.
Now I love a good lager or pilsner myself, but I always thought that was cool.

I dread to see the day that England is known for its fine Alco-Pops...... :shock:
Just doesn't sit well.

Re: British Pubs In Peril ?

PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:10 pm
by Snorri1234
Iz Man wrote:I would be hesitant to "lay blame" on the breweries, if that is what your assertion that "the big breweries could quite easily do this" means.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but English pubs by in large (certainly may be exceptions) do not brew their own beer on premises, but rather buy the beer they serve from the local breweries and/or distributors. The growing trend in the U.S. for the past 20 years has been to brew the beer the pub serves on the premises. This affords the American Brew Pub to offer a cheaper pint because its brewed right there. Smoking ban or not (we've got plenty of those big brother laws here too).
Now a barrel of beer costs the pub what the brewery/distributor charges. If the man bought many barrels and got a discount, then he certainly needed enough capital to buy more than a "normal" purchase. This is not possible for every pub owner. It is also not the brewery's "fault". The brewery needs to make a profit, just like any other business. Unfortunately with the hop & barley shortage of the past year, the price of beer has gone up considerably across the globe. The price will go down again once the hop harvests come in 2009.


Yeah this would be true if some breweries (the large ones) didn't fucking make pricedeals. At least they did here in the netherlands, raising the price of beer with quite a lot. A beer in the capital can easily cost 3 euros, which is amazingly expensive. (Since a few years ago it cost about 1.50 euros.)

Re: British Pubs In Peril ?

PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:30 pm
by Iz Man
Snorri1234 wrote:
Iz Man wrote:I would be hesitant to "lay blame" on the breweries, if that is what your assertion that "the big breweries could quite easily do this" means.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but English pubs by in large (certainly may be exceptions) do not brew their own beer on premises, but rather buy the beer they serve from the local breweries and/or distributors. The growing trend in the U.S. for the past 20 years has been to brew the beer the pub serves on the premises. This affords the American Brew Pub to offer a cheaper pint because its brewed right there. Smoking ban or not (we've got plenty of those big brother laws here too).
Now a barrel of beer costs the pub what the brewery/distributor charges. If the man bought many barrels and got a discount, then he certainly needed enough capital to buy more than a "normal" purchase. This is not possible for every pub owner. It is also not the brewery's "fault". The brewery needs to make a profit, just like any other business. Unfortunately with the hop & barley shortage of the past year, the price of beer has gone up considerably across the globe. The price will go down again once the hop harvests come in 2009.


Yeah this would be true if some breweries (the large ones) didn't fucking make pricedeals. At least they did here in the netherlands, raising the price of beer with quite a lot. A beer in the capital can easily cost 3 euros, which is amazingly expensive. (Since a few years ago it cost about 1.50 euros.)
The price of hops alone went up 500% in a matter of a few weeks back in the fall.
The cost of barley rose over 17% in just 2007, the highest in over 10 years.

I'm not sure what price deals you're referring to; but when the ingredients that you use to make your product have such a spike in your cost, you have to charge more to stay in business.

My concern here is the popularity of the English Pub is dropping, so why?

Re: British Pubs In Peril ?

PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:49 pm
by Snorri1234
Iz Man wrote:
Snorri1234 wrote:
Iz Man wrote:I would be hesitant to "lay blame" on the breweries, if that is what your assertion that "the big breweries could quite easily do this" means.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but English pubs by in large (certainly may be exceptions) do not brew their own beer on premises, but rather buy the beer they serve from the local breweries and/or distributors. The growing trend in the U.S. for the past 20 years has been to brew the beer the pub serves on the premises. This affords the American Brew Pub to offer a cheaper pint because its brewed right there. Smoking ban or not (we've got plenty of those big brother laws here too).
Now a barrel of beer costs the pub what the brewery/distributor charges. If the man bought many barrels and got a discount, then he certainly needed enough capital to buy more than a "normal" purchase. This is not possible for every pub owner. It is also not the brewery's "fault". The brewery needs to make a profit, just like any other business. Unfortunately with the hop & barley shortage of the past year, the price of beer has gone up considerably across the globe. The price will go down again once the hop harvests come in 2009.


Yeah this would be true if some breweries (the large ones) didn't fucking make pricedeals. At least they did here in the netherlands, raising the price of beer with quite a lot. A beer in the capital can easily cost 3 euros, which is amazingly expensive. (Since a few years ago it cost about 1.50 euros.)
The price of hops alone went up 500% in a matter of a few weeks back in the fall.
The cost of barley rose over 17% in just 2007, the highest in over 10 years.

I'm not sure what price deals you're referring to; but when the ingredients that you use to make your product have such a spike in your cost, you have to charge more to stay in business.


Well basically the large breweries agreed with eachother to keep the price of beer at a certain hight, completely destroying the competition in the market and getting bigger profits than they would usually get in a free market. I'm not sure on the english word for it, but it's basically what the free-market economists are against and is also completely illegal. (They had to pay quite hefty fines when the government found out, though I doubt it was more than the profit they made.)

Re: British Pubs In Peril ?

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:12 pm
by Pedronicus
My local (at work) - It sells a decent range of Ales brewed by milton breweries. They currently name all their beers after ancient greek / roman stuff. I'm going to send them an email to see if they could make a 'Pedronicus' Ale as a special. :D Image

Re: British Pubs In Peril ?

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:05 pm
by Iz Man
Pedronicus wrote:My local (at work) - It sells a decent range of Ales brewed by milton breweries. They currently name all their beers after ancient greek / roman stuff. I'm going to send them an email to see if they could make a 'Pedronicus' Ale as a special. :D Image

Wow !
That Milton Brewery looks impressive.
40+ beers ........ and "old school" too.
I love the old grain mill, and the wood clad lauter tun. Very cool.
How are their ales? The Barley Wines (Ur & Dreamtime) look particularly impressive.

With a 12-BBL system, I doubt they're big enough to export to the U.S. unfortunately :evil:

I see The Oakdale has 8 hand pumps behind the bar........ nice.

Looks like a great place to enjoy an ale after work. Its great that you support them.
Keep it up ! =D>

Re: British Pubs In Peril ?

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:14 pm
by Snorri1234
40+ beers is not that special. I sporadically go to a bar in amsterdam serving over 150 beers or so.

Most of those are fucking weird. Raspberry flavoured beer is just...strange, though my friend seems to like it. but when they serve you some of the finest belgian and german beers all is forgiven.

Re: British Pubs In Peril ?

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:33 pm
by chaosfactor
Can we make a smilie of Mr yellow geezer downing a pint please?

Pub Co, are responsible for the destruction of a lot of English Pubs, they will buy anything that resembles a pub, and if the pub is breaking even or just making a little cash, they will knock it down and build luxury housing in its place. Petrol Bomb them if you see their Logo.

Lets face it, Drinking in the city of London, is all about small imported bottles of beer imported from elsewhere, the emphasis being for the customers not to get to comfortable. So gone are the seats, and cozy atmosphere.

What is it with these small 330ml bottles? I have drunk one while I am waiting for my change, I generally order 3 to save leg work.

I blame the supermarkets in the long run, Tesco's is knocking out booze that is cheaper than bottled water, it might not taste like the real deal, but at least financially you are still afloat.

Re: British Pubs In Peril ?

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:24 pm
by Iz Man
Snorri1234 wrote:40+ beers is not that special. I sporadically go to a bar in amsterdam serving over 150 beers or so.

Most of those are fucking weird. Raspberry flavoured beer is just...strange, though my friend seems to like it. but when they serve you some of the finest belgian and german beers all is forgiven.
I was actually referring to the brewery, not the pub.
It's a little unusual for a brewery to brew that many different beers, albeit after checking their website some are really just minor variations of the same style.
Pubs are certainly different; same here in the States.
There's a bar (not a brew pub) very near my house that offers over 280 different types of beer from around the world. 40 of which are on tap......

So I thought it was really cool to see a small local English brewery brewing so many different beers.
Another example of why more of the English need to get out to their local pub. 8-)