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Will we be better educated than our children?(U.S.)
Posted:
Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:55 amby Juan_Bottom
Story in this months REDBOOK makes a good point.....
Thanks in large part to NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND, and state education budget cuts, WILL WE BE BETTER EDUCATED THAN OUR CHILDREN?
scary thought...
Re: Will we be better educated than our children?(U.S.)
Posted:
Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:57 amby Skittles!
You will be if the government doesn't act soon.
Re: Will we be better educated than our children?(U.S.)
Posted:
Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:46 amby Nobunaga
Skittles! wrote:You will be if the government doesn't act soon.
... Government
is the problem, Skittles. The standard gov't procedure of throwing money at a problem and hoping it goes away does not work with schools. Schools with the most money being spent per student are the schools with the worst grades and highest dropout rates, in nearly every state.
... But you don't live here. Your system is probably quite different.
...
Re: Will we be better educated than our children?(U.S.)
Posted:
Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:01 amby Skittles!
Nobunaga wrote:Skittles! wrote:You will be if the government doesn't act soon.
... Government
is the problem, Skittles. The standard gov't procedure of throwing money at a problem and hoping it goes away does not work with schools. Schools with the most money being spent per student are the schools with the worst grades and highest dropout rates, in nearly every state.
... But you don't live here. Your system is probably quite different.
...
I know the government is the problem. That's why the government needs to act better with education. I know that throwing money at the problem won't help schools, I never stated that. Government needs to start everything again. Totally change it, it might not make it 100% better, but honestly, how much worst can it get? Don't answer that, it's rhetorical.
My system is different. It's still stupid, and it's still different, but it does work, in a stupid way. We don't have to go to uni/college to advance in life, we can go to TAFE or have second chances of grade 11 and 12.
There will be drop outs no matter where you go, unless it's illegal for students to not drop out [which is stupid, and yes, I seem to be using that word a lot in this post]. Less discipline is being taught into students, though going back to the cane obviously isn't the answer [I don't know if you had the cane there, but I'm just stating it from my perspective].
Re: Will we be better educated than our children?(U.S.)
Posted:
Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:54 amby Juan_Bottom
This is America, if you were lucky, there was "the switch," if you were unlucky your teacher/policeman used a .22 pistol. Gun culture.....I know....
Re: Will we be better educated than our children?(U.S.)
Posted:
Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:54 amby Nobunaga
Skittles! wrote:Nobunaga wrote:Skittles! wrote:You will be if the government doesn't act soon.
... Government
is the problem, Skittles. The standard gov't procedure of throwing money at a problem and hoping it goes away does not work with schools. Schools with the most money being spent per student are the schools with the worst grades and highest dropout rates, in nearly every state.
... But you don't live here. Your system is probably quite different.
...
I know the government is the problem. That's why the government needs to act better with education. I know that throwing money at the problem won't help schools, I never stated that. Government needs to start everything again. Totally change it, it might not make it 100% better, but honestly, how much worst can it get? Don't answer that, it's rhetorical.
My system is different. It's still stupid, and it's still different, but it does work, in a stupid way. We don't have to go to uni/college to advance in life, we can go to TAFE or have second chances of grade 11 and 12.
There will be drop outs no matter where you go, unless it's illegal for students to not drop out [which is stupid, and yes, I seem to be using that word a lot in this post]. Less discipline is being taught into students, though going back to the cane obviously isn't the answer [I don't know if you had the cane there, but I'm just stating it from my perspective].
... We are in complete agreement then.
... Science and math - we utterly suck.
...
Re: Will we be better educated than our children?(U.S.)
Posted:
Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:09 amby PLAYER57832
Unfortunately, many of the so-called "fixes" like vouchers won't work because all they do is draw off some of the better or just plain luckier students and take money from the schools.
As for the money issue, you are only partially correct. It sounds good, but the real truth is that districts with more money do better than those without. Is it a catch-all? No. For one thing, since school money is often tied to property taxes, those places with more money have more kids from well off families. And, that usually does mean fewer of some issues. Kids who do show up in those districts hungry or without pencils at least get them provided at school. Or, if not from school from groups like the Lions, etc. that are more likely to have money in those areas. In the poorer districts, that is often not true. (those organizations do go into poorer areas, but it is much easier to care for the 20 kids in your neighborhood who need backpacks and clothes than it is to provide for the 2000 in the big city district).
That said, "no child left behind" had one goal... to create a minimally educated workforce, without regard to real advancement. It was based upon faulty data and logic that is not based on real educational research. Ironically, they are celebrating gains that came not from no child left behind, but from other measures that were undertaken before no child left behind. Those same successful programs are now at risk.
BUT, the other alternative ... home schooling is even worse, except in a very few narrow circumstances. Specifically, children who have problems the schools cannot handle, children who just live too far from any school. I am more and more feeling that religion should NOT be a reason UNLESS the children so taught are mandated to learn real and true science and history. There is an old song from the civil rights days that goes, with sarcasm, "they have to be carefully taught". We DO NOT need another generation of kids who are taught that the "races should not mix", that "evolution is not real science" and that "science is an attack on religion".
What we really need are for more professionals in many fields to become involved in their local schools and in after school programs. This means time and money. It means commitments from the government and employers. It means that people have to care about their neighbor's kids and the kids across town, not just their own. It means that people have to do more than talk. When people are involved, schools are ALWAYS better. Then, when people see what the real needs are, then things will change.
Re: Will we be better educated than our children?(U.S.)
Posted:
Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:48 amby strike wolf
Nobunaga wrote:Skittles! wrote:Nobunaga wrote:Skittles! wrote:You will be if the government doesn't act soon.
... Government
is the problem, Skittles. The standard gov't procedure of throwing money at a problem and hoping it goes away does not work with schools. Schools with the most money being spent per student are the schools with the worst grades and highest dropout rates, in nearly every state.
... But you don't live here. Your system is probably quite different.
...
I know the government is the problem. That's why the government needs to act better with education. I know that throwing money at the problem won't help schools, I never stated that. Government needs to start everything again. Totally change it, it might not make it 100% better, but honestly, how much worst can it get? Don't answer that, it's rhetorical.
My system is different. It's still stupid, and it's still different, but it does work, in a stupid way. We don't have to go to uni/college to advance in life, we can go to TAFE or have second chances of grade 11 and 12.
There will be drop outs no matter where you go, unless it's illegal for students to not drop out [which is stupid, and yes, I seem to be using that word a lot in this post]. Less discipline is being taught into students, though going back to the cane obviously isn't the answer [I don't know if you had the cane there, but I'm just stating it from my perspective].
... We are in complete agreement then.
...
Science and math - we utterly suck.
...
No question about that.
Re: Will we be better educated than our children?(U.S.)
Posted:
Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:56 pmby ksslemp
That all depends on their parents!
If they believe its the responsibility of big government to educate their children, then yes they will!
But then of course if they believe that then they weren't very smart to begin with.
Re: Will we be better educated than our children?(U.S.)
Posted:
Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:04 pmby qeee1
Tell everyone they can't have education then watch them fight for it.
Also isn't education in the U.S. poorly funded anyway?
Re: Will we be better educated than our children?(U.S.)
Posted:
Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:14 pmby ksslemp
qeee1 wrote:Tell everyone they can't have education then watch them fight for it.
Also isn't education in the U.S. poorly funded anyway?
Education in the U.S. is more than adequately funded!
Re: Will we be better educated than our children?(U.S.)
Posted:
Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:25 pmby jonesthecurl
ksslemp wrote:That all depends on their parents!
If they believe its the responsibility of big government to educate their children, then yes they will!
But then of course if they believe that then they weren't very smart to begin with.
Um, good point. (
never thought I'd say that to kssslemp)
Re: Will we be better educated than our children?(U.S.)
Posted:
Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:59 pmby qeee1
ksslemp wrote:Education in the U.S. is more than adequately funded!
that's just like your opinion bro.
Re: Will we be better educated than our children?(U.S.)
Posted:
Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:21 pmby Skittles!
How much money does the schools get from the government?
Re: Will we be better educated than our children?(U.S.)
Posted:
Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:50 pmby ksslemp
Skittles! wrote:How much money does(DO) the schools get from the government?
Well the schools don't really get money from the government, they get it from the citizens through the government. But anyway according to statistics i read, the U.S.A. spends 7.4%(2007) of its GDP on all levels of education. this is the highest level amongst the G-8 nations and we have increased educational funding every year since they started compiling yearly educational statistics which was in 1969. the decade before that the stats were compiled every 2 years and previous to 1959 they compiled them every 10 years.
Re: Will we be better educated than our children?(U.S.)
Posted:
Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:31 pmby qeee1
Interesting website, not sure how accurate,
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_e ... ing-of-gdpseriously though, I dunno what the U.S.A.'s problem is,
maybe everyone there is stupid but private schooling is not the way forward.
Re: Will we be better educated than our children?(U.S.)
Posted:
Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:55 pmby Fircoal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx4pN-aiofw Good video, it's quite long, but it's good and relevant
Re: Will we be better educated than our children?(U.S.)
Posted:
Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:08 pmby CrazyAnglican
Skittles! wrote:How much money does the schools get from the government?
The State of Georgia spends a little over $7,000 per student per year (now ask how much we spend per prisoner per year). Only about 4% of education funds come from the federal government and about 60% (could be way off base here as I have no reference handy) comes from the local (city or county) government. Most of educational funds come from homeowner's property taxes. Many systems try for SPLOST (Special prupose local sales taxes) where a 1% increase in sales taxes over a set period of time goes for a specific purpose (building schools, roads, etc). These have to be voted on by the general populace of the area, and voted on again to extend them.
Re: Will we be better educated than our children?(U.S.)
Posted:
Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:12 pmby Neoteny
CrazyAnglican wrote:Skittles! wrote:How much money does the schools get from the government?
The State of Georgia spends a little over $7,000 per student per year (now ask how much we spend per prisoner per year). Only about 4% of education funds come from the federal government and about 60% (could be way off base here as I have no reference handy) comes from the local (city or county) government. Most of educational funds come from homeowner's property taxes. Many systems try for SPLOST (Special prupose local sales taxes) where a 1% increase in sales taxes over a set period of time goes for a specific purpose (building schools, roads, etc). These have to be voted on by the general populace of the area, and voted on again to extend them.
And if there's one thing people love bitching about, it's a SPLOST. Seriously. The Columbus Ledger-Enquirer has at least one letter to the editor complaining about it every day. I kid you not.
Re: Will we be better educated than our children?(U.S.)
Posted:
Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:16 pmby CrazyAnglican
Yeah there are always folks who grip about any taxes, but it's hardly fair to make all homeowners (even the ones without kids) to pay for all the kids' educations (even the ones who's parents don't own homes).
In answer to the original question........not if I have anything to say about it.
Also In Georgia we have revamped our curriculum and have moved ahead of eight other states in test scores in three years. We still have a long way to go, but we're heading in the right direction. It has been really cool, as I'm seeing a marked increase in students' ability levels from one year to the next.
Re: Will we be better educated than our children?(U.S.)
Posted:
Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:35 pmby dcowboys055
I think the worst part about schools ( at least the ones in my district) today is that there is too much focus on learning lots of different ways to solve something. They teach you 6 different ways to solve an equation but then you are only tested on knowing how to solve it all 6 ways, not on getting the problem right. I think there should be a lot more emphasis on being able to get the right answer, more concrete teaching, rather than the 'well you know different ways to do it atleast, since you showed your work I'll give you a B' theory.
Re: Will we be better educated than our children?(U.S.)
Posted:
Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:37 pmby hecter
Here's somethin' for you all to think about... Raise the standards. :O That means that everybody is going to have to work harder to get the same grade and ultimately, their diploma, as such they'll learn more and be smarter. I don't know what it's like down there, but up here it's hard to even get a burger flipping job if your a drop-out.
Re: Will we be better educated than our children?(U.S.)
Posted:
Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:43 pmby CrazyAnglican
Raising the standards is part of the plan. Students who don't make the grade on reading and math state testing don't pass (grade 3, 5, and
, the state tests are becoming more rigorous too.
Re: Will we be better educated than our children?(U.S.)
Posted:
Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:03 pmby jonesthecurl
I'd heard that in the US, the progression from one grade to another wasn't automatic. that you could be "held back".
I know that this is theoretically true, but I've only heard of one or two cases (one anecdotal, possibly not true) in all the kids mine know.
I think it should be a nore real possibility: you're not doing a child any favours moving them on to more complex stuf when they don't get what they've been taught already.
IN the UK, you move up automatically - if you are too far behind you may be taken out of normal schooling and put in a special needs school. (most "special needs" kids are taught in normal school with a little extra help)But it's not uncommon to be returned to a lower year, or promoted to a higher one, in a particular subject.
Re: Will we be better educated than our children?(U.S.)
Posted:
Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:08 amby black elk speaks
CrazyAnglican wrote:Raising the standards is part of the plan. Students who don't make the grade on reading and math state testing don't pass (grade 3, 5, and
, the state tests are becoming more rigorous too.
lets not forget the fact that funding for NCLB has declined over the years since our president signed the legislation into law. we are talking about a program that was never fully funded. as such, it can be considered as the rest of the education programs in this country. inadequate. teachers have probably one of the most difficult jobs of all. their classrooms are over crowded, they over flow into trailers, they have to work mad hours to prepare for your kids classes and often times, purchase their own materials. music and art programs have to host fund raisers, and there is a massive influx in this country with esl (english as a second language) which pulls resources away from the majority of the kids.
personally, i don't think that any kind of educational program will work when you abuse a workforce like the way that we abuse the workforce of the American Education System.
but most importantly, I think, is the responsibility of parents to take an interest in their kids education, teach them the value of the education that they are given and the hard work that it takes to make the best of it. get those kids off the ritalin and video games and take them hiking, read with them, expose them to the things of their world that will challenge them to aspire to be something better than a fat spastic blob that can't read.