Conquer Club

demonfork wrote:If thimerosal (50% methylmercury by weight) is so safe then why is the FDA

"continuing its efforts toward reducing or removing thimerosal from all existing vaccines"

demonfork wrote:If thimerosal causes no harm then why was a special provision that provides protection from lawsuits against corporations like the Eli Lilly Company (manufacturer of thimerosal) added to the Patriot Act?

demonfork wrote:Introducing a heavy metal, like mercury, into your bloodstream is not safe, especially for children and especially when multiple vaccinations are performed at one interval.

demonfork wrote:Mercury poising can cause a wide variety of neurological problems, many of which have characteristics that are indistinguishable from autism.

demonfork wrote:Jenny McCarthy is not against vaccines, she has publicly proclaimed this on many occasions, she is against the dangerous preservatives, like thimerosal, that are added to the vaccines.

Her campaign to help make parents aware of these types of dangerous preservatives that are present in vaccines is commendable. Her efforts have helped afford many uninformed parents the ability to insist on receiving thimerosal and or preservative free vaccinations when they immunize their children.

“It’s not my fault if vaccine-preventable diseases come back; it’s the pharmaceutical companies’ fault for not making ’safer’ vaccines. Oh, and, by the way, we decide what’s ’safe.”

demonfork wrote:I think that it is disgusting that the author of this website is attempting to spin Ms. McCarthy's efforts by making people believe that she is against immunizations and therefore responsible for the deaths of non immunized children.

Do me a favor: compare the death rates from measles, mumps and rubella with the incidence of autism. Even if what the fucking lunatics say is true - which it isn't - vaccinations would be completely and utterly justified. There is no reason NOT to get your children vaccinated. Jesus CHRIST.

J Child Psychol Psychiatry. 2005 Jun;46(6):572-9. Related Articles, Links
No effect of MMR withdrawal on the incidence of autism: a total population study.

Honda H, Shimizu Y, Rutter M.

Yokohama Rehabilitation Center, Yokohama, Japan. honda@yokohama.email.ne.jp

BACKGROUND: A causal relationship between the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine and occurrence of autism spectrum disorders (ASD) has been claimed, based on an increase in ASD in the USA and the UK after introduction of the MMR vaccine. However, the possibility that this increase is coincidental has not been eliminated. The unique circumstances of a Japanese MMR vaccination program provide an opportunity for comparison of ASD incidence before and after termination of the program. METHODS: This study examined cumulative incidence of ASD up to age seven for children born from 1988 to 1996 in Kohoku Ward (population approximately 300,000), Yokohama, Japan. ASD cases included all cases of pervasive developmental disorders according to ICD-10 guidelines. RESULTS: The MMR vaccination rate in the city of Yokohama declined significantly in the birth cohorts of years 1988 through 1992, and not a single vaccination was administered in 1993 or thereafter. In contrast, cumulative incidence of ASD up to age seven increased significantly in the birth cohorts of years 1988 through 1996 and most notably rose dramatically beginning with the birth cohort of 1993. CONCLUSIONS: The significance of this finding is that MMR vaccination is most unlikely to be a main cause of ASD, that it cannot explain the rise over time in the incidence of ASD, and that withdrawal of MMR in countries where it is still being used cannot be expected to lead to a reduction in the incidence of ASD.

Pediatrics. 2001 May;107(5):E84.
Measles-mumps-rubella vaccine and autistic spectrum disorder: report from the New Challenges in Childhood Immunizations Conference convened in Oak Brook, Illinois, June 12-13, 2000.

Halsey NA, Hyman SL; Conference Writing Panel.

BACKGROUND: Parents and physicians are understandably concerned about the causes and treatment of autism, a devastating disease that affects the entire family. Although much has been learned about autism, there are many gaps in our knowledge about what causes the disorder and how it can be prevented. Autistic symptoms occur along a spectrum, often referred to as autistic spectrum disorder (ASD). Concern has been raised about a possible association between measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine and inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) and ASD, especially autism with regression. Also, increased requests for educational services related to ASD have raised concerns about possible increases in the incidence of ASD. METHODS: On June 12-13, 2000, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) convened a conference titled "New Challenges in Childhood Immunizations" in Oak Brook, Illinois. At this conference, parents, practitioners, and scientists presented information and research on MMR vaccine and ASD. Attendees included representatives from select AAP committees and sections as well as federal and other organizations that address related issues. The multidisciplinary panel of experts reviewed data on what is known about the pathogenesis, epidemiology, and genetics of ASD and the available data on hypothesized associations with IBD, measles, and MMR vaccine. Supplemental information was requested from authors who have proposed the hypotheses and other experts in relevant areas. RESULTS: Autism is a complex disorder of uncertain and probably multiple etiologies. Genetic predisposition to ASD may involve as many as 10 genes. Many experts believe that the abnormal brain development in autism occurs before 30 weeks' gestation in most instances. In utero rubella is a known cause of autism. Animal model data support the biologic plausibility that exposure to yet unrecognized infectious or other environmental agents could cause ASD. Several factors may contribute to apparent increases in incidence of ASD in recent years. Most data indicate increased recognition and reporting as primary factors, but the epidemiologic data are insufficient to determine if there has been a true increase in the incidence of ASD. Increased reporting of ASD in recent years has occurred long after the introduction of MMR vaccine in the United States in 1971 and widespread use of this vaccine in the 1970s for routine immunization of children at 12 to 15 months of age. Appropriate detailed studies are needed to define the true incidence and prevalence of ASD. Epidemiologic studies in Europe indicate no association between MMR vaccine and ASD. Some children with ASD have gastrointestinal symptoms, but an increased rate of any specific gastrointestinal disorder in children with ASD has not been established. Studies to detect evidence of measles virus in intestinal tissue specimens from patients with IBD or autism with gastrointestinal symptoms have not used uniform techniques. Several laboratories have found no evidence of measles viruses in tissue specimens from patients with IBD, but 2 groups have found evidence of measles virus using different techniques. A group that found evidence of measles virus in affected tissue specimens from patients with IBD has also reported detecting portions of measles virus in peripheral blood lymphocytes and intestinal tissue specimens from patients with autism and gastrointestinal disorders. Finding a portion of a virus using molecular techniques does not constitute evidence for a causal relationship, because some viruses persist in unaffected hosts. Additional controlled studies in several laboratories are needed to determine if portions of measles virus persist in intestinal and other tissues of people with and without gastrointestinal disease and/or ASD. CONCLUSIONS: Although the possible association with MMR vaccine has received much public and political attention and there are many who have derived their own conclusions based on personal experiences, the available evidence does not support the hypothesis that MMR vaccine causes autism or associated disorders or IBD. Separate administration of measles, mumps, and rubella vaccines to children provides no benefit over administration of the combination MMR vaccine and would result in delayed or missed immunizations. Pediatricians need to work with families to ensure that children are protected early in the second year of life from these preventable diseases. Continued scientific efforts need to be directed to the identification of the causes of ASD.

Lancet. 1999 Jun 12;353(9169):2026-9.
Autism and measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine: no epidemiological evidence for a causal association.

Taylor B, Miller E, Farrington CP, Petropoulos MC, Favot-Mayaud I, Li J, Waight PA.

Department of Community Child Health, Royal Free and University College Medical School, University College London, UK.

BACKGROUND: We undertook an epidemiological study to investigate whether measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine may be causally associated with autism. METHODS: Children with autism born since 1979 were identified from special needs/disability registers and special schools in eight North Thames health districts, UK. Information from clinical records was linked to immunisation data held on the child health computing system. We looked for evidence of a change in trend in incidence or age at diagnosis associated with the introduction of MMR vaccination to the UK in 1988. Clustering of onsets within defined postvaccination periods was investigated by the case-series method. FINDINGS: We identified 498 cases of autism (261 of core autism, 166 of atypical autism, and 71 of Asperger's syndrome). In 293 cases the diagnosis could be confirmed by the criteria of the International Classification of Diseases, tenth revision (ICD10: 214 [82%] core autism, 52 [31%] atypical autism, 27 [38%] Asperger's syndrome). There was a steady increase in cases by year of birth with no sudden "step-up" or change in the trend line after the introduction of MMR vaccination. There was no difference in age at diagnosis between the cases vaccinated before or after 18 months of age and those never vaccinated. There was no temporal association between onset of autism within 1 or 2 years after vaccination with MMR (relative incidence compared with control period 0.94 [95% CI 0.60-1.47] and 1.09 [0.79-1.52]). Developmental regression was not clustered in the months after vaccination (relative incidence within 2 months and 4 months after MMR vaccination 0.92 [0.38-2.21] and 1.00 [0.52-1.95]). No significant temporal clustering for age at onset of parental concern was seen for cases of core autism or atypical autism with the exception of a single interval within 6 months of MMR vaccination. This appeared to be an artifact related to the difficulty of defining precisely the onset of symptoms in this disorder. INTERPRETATION: Our analyses do not support a causal association between MMR vaccine and autism. If such an association occurs, it is so rare that it could not be identified in this large regional sample.

BMJ. 2002 Feb 16;324(7334):393-6.
Measles, mumps, and rubella vaccination and bowel problems or developmental regression in children with autism: population study.

Taylor B, Miller E, Lingam R, Andrews N, Simmons A, Stowe J.

Centre for Community Child Health, Royal Free and University College Medical School, University College London Royal Free Campus, London. b.taylor@rfc.ucl.ac.uk

Objectives: To investigate whether measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccination is associated with bowel problems and developmental regression in children with autism, looking for evidence of a "new variant" form of autism. Design: Population study with case note review linked to independently recorded vaccine data. Setting: Five health districts in north east London. Participants: 278 children with core autism and 195 with atypical autism, mainly identified from computerised disability registers and born between 1979 and 1998. Main outcome measures: Recorded bowel problems lasting at least three months, age of reported regression of the child's development where it was a feature, and relation of these to MMR vaccination. Results: The proportion of children with developmental regression (25% overall) or bowel symptoms (17%) did not change significantly (P value for trend 0.50 and 0.47, respectively) during the 20 years from 1979, a period which included the introduction of MMR vaccination in October 1988. No significant difference was found in rates of bowel problems or regression in children who received the MMR vaccine before their parents became concerned about their development (where MMR might have caused or triggered the autism with regression or bowel problem), compared with those who received it only after such concern and those who had not received the MMR vaccine. A possible association between non-specific bowel problems and regression in children with autism was seen but this was unrelated to MMR vaccination. Conclusions: These findings provide no support for an MMR associated "new variant" form of autism with developmental regression and bowel problems, and further evidence against involvement of MMR vaccine in the initiation of autism.

JAMA. 2001 Mar 7;285(9):1183-5.
Time trends in autism and in MMR immunization coverage in California.

Dales L, Hammer SJ, Smith NJ.

Immunization Branch, California Department of Health Services, 2151 Berkeley Way, Room 712, Berkeley, CA 94704, USA. ldales@dhs.ca.gov

CONTEXT: Considerable concern has been generated in the lay and medical communities by a theory that increased measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) immunization among young children may be the cause of an apparent marked increase in autism occurrence. OBJECTIVE: To determine if a correlation exists in secular trends of MMR immunization coverage among young children and autism occurrence. DESIGN, SETTING, AND PARTICIPANTS: Retrospective analyses of MMR immunization coverage rates among children born in 1980-1994 who were enrolled in California kindergartens (survey samples of 600-1900 children each year) and whose school immunization records were reviewed to retrospectively determine the age at which they first received MMR immunization; and of autism caseloads among children born in these years who were diagnosed with autism and were enrolled in the California Department of Developmental Services regional service center system. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Measles-mumps-rubella immunization coverage rates as of ages 17 months and 24 months and numbers of Department of Developmental Services system enrollees diagnosed with autism, grouped by year of birth. RESULTS: Essentially no correlation was observed between the secular trend of early childhood MMR immunization rates in California and the secular trend in numbers of children with autism enrolled in California's regional service center system. For the 1980-1994 birth cohorts, a marked, sustained increase in autism case numbers was noted, from 44 cases per 100 000 live births in the 1980 cohort to 208 cases per 100 000 live births in the 1994 cohort (a 373% relative increase), but changes in early childhood MMR immunization coverage over the same time period were much smaller and of shorter duration. Immunization coverage by the age of 24 months increased from 72% to 82%, a relative increase of only 14%, over the same time period. CONCLUSIONS: These data do not suggest an association between MMR immunization among young children and an increase in autism occurrence.

Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med. 2003 Jul;157(7):628-34.

Association of autistic spectrum disorder and the measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine: a systematic review of current epidemiological evidence.

Wilson K, Mills E, Ross C, McGowan J, Jadad A.

Department of Medicine and Health Policy, University of Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

OBJECTIVE: To systematically review the evidence for and against the existence of an association between autistic spectrum disorder (ASD) and the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine.Study DESIGN: We conducted a systematic review of the medical literature to identify all controlled epidemiological articles examining for an association between ASD and the MMR vaccine. We extracted data from the articles on the characteristics and objectives of the study as well as evidence of an association. RESULTS: Twelve articles met the inclusion criteria. One study found no difference in the rates of ASD and the MMR vaccine in children who were vaccinated and those who were not. Six studies examined for evidence of an increase in ASD associated with an increase in the MMR vaccine coverage, none of which showed evidence of an association. Four studies examined if a variant form of ASD was associated with the MMR vaccine, none of which showed evidence of an association. Eight studies attempted to determine if there was a temporal association between developing ASD and receiving the MMR vaccine. Of these, 1 study identified an increase in parental concern in the 6-month period following vaccination with MMR in one of its analyses. The results of all other studies showed no association between ASD and the MMR vaccine. CONCLUSIONS: The current literature does not suggest an association between ASD and the MMR vaccine; however, limited epidemiological evidence exists to rule out a link between a rare variant form of ASD and the MMR vaccine. Given the real risks of not vaccinating and that the risks and existence of variant ASD remain theoretical, current policies should continue to advocate the use of the MMR vaccine.

Ugeskr Laeger. 2002 Dec 2;164(49):5741-4.

[MMR vaccination and autism--a population-based follow-up study]

Madsen KM, Hviid A, Vestergaard M, Schendel D, Wohlfahrt J, Thorsen P, Olsen J, Melbye M.

Center for Epidemiologisk Grundforskning, Institut for Epidemiologi og Socialmedicin, Aarhus Universitet, DK-8000 Arhus C. kmm@dadlnet.dk

INTRODUCTION: It has been suggested that the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccination causes autism. MATERIAL AND METHODS: We conducted a retrospective cohort study of all children born in Denmark from January 1991 through December 1998. The cohort was established based on data from the Danish Civil Registration System. A unique person identifiable number given to all subjects enabled linkage with other national registries. MMR vaccination status was obtained from the Danish National Board of Health. Information on the children's autism status was obtained from the Danish Psychiatric Central Register which contains information on all diagnoses received from psychiatric hospitals, psychiatric wards, and outpatient clinics in Denmark. We obtained information on potential confounders from the Danish Medical Birth Registry, the National Hospital Registry, and Statistics Denmark. RESULTS: In the cohort of 537,303 children (2,129,864 person-years), 440,655 children had been MMR vaccinated. We identified 316 children with a diagnosis of autistic disorder and 442 with a diagnosis of other spectrum disorders. After adjusting for potential confounders, the risk for autistic disorder and other spectrum disorders was not increased in vaccinated compared with unvaccinated children (relative risk 0.92; 95 percent confidence interval, 0.68 to 1.24 and relative risk 0.83; 95 percent confidence interval, 0.65 to 1.07). There was no association between age at vaccination, time since vaccination or calendar period at time of vaccination and development of autistic disorder. DISCUSSION: This study provides strong evidence against the hypothesis that MMR vaccination causes autism.

N Engl J Med. 2002 Nov 7;347(19):1477-82.
A population-based study of measles, mumps, and rubella vaccination and autism.

Madsen KM, Hviid A, Vestergaard M, Schendel D, Wohlfahrt J, Thorsen P, Olsen J, Melbye M.

Danish Epidemiology Science Center, Department of Epidemiology and Social Medicine, Arhus, Denmark. kmm@dadlnet.dk

BACKGROUND: It has been suggested that vaccination against measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) is a cause of autism. METHODS: We conducted a retrospective cohort study of all children born in Denmark from January 1991 through December 1998. The cohort was selected on the basis of data from the Danish Civil Registration System, which assigns a unique identification number to every live-born infant and new resident in Denmark. MMR-vaccination status was obtained from the Danish National Board of Health. Information on the children's autism status was obtained from the Danish Psychiatric Central Register, which contains information on all diagnoses received by patients in psychiatric hospitals and outpatient clinics in Denmark. We obtained information on potential confounders from the Danish Medical Birth Registry, the National Hospital Registry, and Statistics Denmark. RESULTS: Of the 537,303 children in the cohort (representing 2,129,864 person-years), 440,655 (82.0 percent) had received the MMR vaccine. We identified 316 children with a diagnosis of autistic disorder and 422 with a diagnosis of other autistic-spectrum disorders. After adjustment for potential confounders, the relative risk of autistic disorder in the group of vaccinated children, as compared with the unvaccinated group, was 0.92 (95 percent confidence interval, 0.68 to 1.24), and the relative risk of another autistic-spectrum disorder was 0.83 (95 percent confidence interval, 0.65 to 1.07). There was no association between the age at the time of vaccination, the time since vaccination, or the date of vaccination and the development of autistic disorder. CONCLUSIONS: This study provides strong evidence against the hypothesis that MMR vaccination causes autism. Copyright 2002 Massachusetts Medical Society

Expert Rev Vaccines. 2004 Feb;3(1):19-22.

MMR vaccine and autism: an update of the scientific evidence.

DeStefano F, Thompson WW.

National Immunization Program, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 1600 Clifton Road, Mailstop E61, Atlanta, Georgia 30333, USA. fdestefano@cdc.gov

An hypothesis published in 1998 suggested that measles-mumps-rubella vaccine may cause autism as a result of persistent measles virus infection of the gastrointestinal tract. Results of early studies were not supportive and in 2001 a review by the Institute of Medicine concluded that the evidence favors the rejection of a causal relationship at the population level between measles-mumps-rubella vaccine and autistic spectrum disorder. Studies published since the Institute of Medicine report have continued not to find an increased risk of autistic spectrum disorder associated with measles-mumps-rubella. The vaccine also has not been found to be associated with a unique syndrome of developmental regression and gastrointestinal disorders. The evidence now is convincing that the measles-mumps-rubella vaccine does not cause autism or any particular subtypes of autistic spectrum disorder.

Measles infects 30 to 40 million children each year and kills over 500,000, often from complications related to pneumonia, diarrhoea and malnutrition. Many that survive are left with life-long disabilities: blindness, deafness or brain damage. Measles is a viral respiratory infection that attacks the immune system and is so contagious that any children not immunized will suffer from the disease when exposed. Those under five years of age are most at risk.

The majority of measles deaths occur in the 14 countries where immunization coverage for children was reported to be less than 50 per cent of children in 1999: Afghanistan, Angola, Central African Republic, Chad, Congo, Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC), Djibouti, Equatorial Guinea, Ethiopia, Niger, Nigeria, Somalia and Togo.

Although the case-fatality rate of mumps encephalitis is low and overall mortality is 1/10 000 cases, permanent sequelae occur in about 25% of encephalitis cases. Mumps is a leading cause of acquired sensorineural deafness among children, affecting approximately 5/100 000 mumps patients. Mumps infection during the first 12 weeks of pregnancy is associated with a 25% incidence of spontaneous abortion, although malformations following mumps virus infection during pregnancy have not been found

In the pre-vaccination era mumps was the main cause of viral encephalitis in many countries. By 2002 mumps vaccine was included in the routine immunization schedule of 121 countries/territories. In countries where vaccination was introduced and high coverage was sustained the incidence of the disease has dropped tremendously and circulation has stopped. In countries where vaccination was not introduced the incidence of mumps remains high, mostly affecting children aged 5-9 years

ANYONE WHO ADVOCATES NOT VACCINATING CHILDREN IS ADVOCATING CHILD ABUSE ON THE SCALE OF POPULATIONS.

demonfork wrote:

Jenny McCarthy is not against vaccines, she has publicly proclaimed this on many occasions, she is against the dangerous preservatives, like thimerosal, that are added to the vaccines.

demonfork wrote:I'll say it again....

demonfork wrote:

Jenny McCarthy is not against vaccines, she has publicly proclaimed this on many occasions, she is against the dangerous preservatives, like thimerosal, that are added to the vaccines.

demonfork wrote:I'll say it again....

demonfork wrote:

Jenny McCarthy is not against vaccines, she has publicly proclaimed this on many occasions, she is against the dangerous preservatives, like thimerosal, that are added to the vaccines.

demonfork wrote:I'll say it again....

demonfork wrote:

Jenny McCarthy is not against vaccines, she has publicly proclaimed this on many occasions, she is against the dangerous preservatives, like thimerosal, that are added to the vaccines.

Neoteny wrote:

demonfork wrote:I'll say it again....

demonfork wrote:

Jenny McCarthy is not against vaccines, she has publicly proclaimed this on many occasions, she is against the dangerous preservatives, like thimerosal, that are added to the vaccines.

Repeating yourself in a larger font does not make a valid argument. I discussed your statement, and you ignored that. So I'm going to continue ignoring you until you pose a decent response.

Neoteny wrote:So now that is two arguments you are ignoring. Keep on ignoring them. Display your ignorance proudly.

demonfork wrote:
Dude I wasn't talking to you, I was responding to this...


"ANYONE WHO ADVOCATES NOT VACCINATING CHILDREN IS ADVOCATING CHILD ABUSE ON THE SCALE OF POPULATIONS."

demonfork wrote:What arguments am I ignoring?

Furthermore, being the father of a 9 year old child with autism I can assure you that I am no where near the point of ignorance on the matter.

Snorri1234 wrote:So? Nobody was saying that that statement was directed at Jenny McCarthy, it was directed at the actual people who exist who are very much against vacccinating children.

Neoteny wrote:

demonfork wrote:Jenny McCarthy is not against vaccines, she has publicly proclaimed this on many occasions, she is against the dangerous preservatives, like thimerosal, that are added to the vaccines.

Her campaign to help make parents aware of these types of dangerous preservatives that are present in vaccines is commendable. Her efforts have helped afford many uninformed parents the ability to insist on receiving thimerosal and or preservative free vaccinations when they immunize their children.

I saw her on Larry King the other day, and she does say that she's not anti-vaccine, "she's anti-vaccines-that-don't-measure-up-to-her-standard-of-safety". Miss McCarthy said:

“It’s not my fault if vaccine-preventable diseases come back; it’s the pharmaceutical companies’ fault for not making ’safer’ vaccines. Oh, and, by the way, we decide what’s ’safe.”

Unfortunately, her ideas of safety are based on a concept that has been disproven several times over. Studies have found no link between thiomersal and autism.

It's her campaign to make parents aware of vaccine ingredients that she thinks are dangerous.

demonfork wrote:I think that it is disgusting that the author of this website is attempting to spin Ms. McCarthy's efforts by making people believe that she is against immunizations and therefore responsible for the deaths of non immunized children.

I think it's a perfectly fair assessment. Someone of her notoriety can spread ideas around very effectively. And if they are harmful, even as well-intentioned I'm sure we can assume they are, she should take responsibility for it. There is no excuse to not vaccinate our children. We are putting them and others in danger by not doing so.

pimpdave wrote:This was a great thread. Thanks for bumping it Neo. I'm bookmarking this to use as a reference.

Also, I think if you take out the quotation marks in the url in your last post, it should make the hypertext work.

pimpdave wrote:Would?

Timminz wrote:How many more years will this "debate" rage on?