Conquer Club

This came up in the Holocaust thread. Rather than divert that thread, I am starting a new one.

Here are a few links just dealing with various episodes. This is by no means a complete list. In some cases, I am not sure the linke I am providing are the best. (if anyone has better, post them!!!)


I urge any American not well informed, and even those who believe they are well informed (never hurts to learn more) to do a little research into this. It behooves us all to be informed of the realities of our countries' history.


Here is a link from PBS: http://www.ask.com/bar?q=Trail+of+Tears ... trail.html ON the trail of tears.

Indian boarding schools:
http://www.ask.com/bar?q=Trail+of+Tears ... trail.html

A commentary on the lack of education about what happened to Native Americans
http://www.ask.com/bar?q=Indian+Genocid ... Farc12.htm


From the American Indian Genodice museum, on Indian Genocide: (note, have not explored this link...not sure how trustworthy it is)
http://www.ask.com/bar?q=Indian+Genocid ... nom.com%2F

Why would a people do that to themselves?

If they'd have just handed over their bows and arrows everything would've been peace and love.

HapSmo19 wrote:Why would a people do that to themselves?

If they'd have just handed over their bows and arrows everything would've been peace and love.

cuz the white man raped,killed women and children.........

Natives were there first...just like the white man..they always want everything.....

black hills was stolen from them,the natives were lied to,robbed of their native lands...
native americans derserve more and the goverment should pay them back in full....

Interesting article in this month's American History magazine, What do we owe the Indians?

HapSmo19 wrote:Why would a people do that to themselves?

If they'd have just handed over their bows and arrows everything would've been peace and love.

I now declare myself supreme overlord of the US, and demand everybody follow my commands or be crushed. I assume you're going to immediately submit so that everything can be peace and love.

Is my sarcasm that hard to spot?

jonesthecurl wrote:Interesting article in this month's American History magazine, What do we owe the Indians?

Whatever it is, I hope an IOU will do.

HapSmo19 wrote:Why would a people do that to themselves?

If they'd have just handed over their bows and arrows everything would've been peace and love.

Actually many of them did just that, and became statistics shortly thereafter. We defeated the Indians by treachery and broken treaties, and not by out and out war. Also putting a bounty on buffalo tongues worked pretty good as far as wiping out their main food source.

The best source for anyone who's interested is "Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee", although i can't remember the author's name right off.


Honibaz

b.k. barunt wrote:

HapSmo19 wrote:Why would a people do that to themselves?

If they'd have just handed over their bows and arrows everything would've been peace and love.

Actually many of them did just that, and became statistics shortly thereafter. We defeated the Indians by treachery and broken treaties, and not by out and out war. Also putting a bounty on buffalo tongues worked pretty good as far as wiping out their main food source.

The best source for anyone who's interested is "Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee", although i can't remember the author's name right off.


Honibaz

Dee Brown

Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee should be compulsory reading in all schools however it is history, its done and dusted, it can't be changed and there is nothing to be gained pointing the finger of blame, it was another time and attitudes were so radically different and lets hope its one episode we, as a species have all learnt from.

Captain_Scarlet wrote:. . . however it is history, its done and dusted, it can't be changed and there is nothing to be gained pointing the finger of blame, it was another time and attitudes were so radically different and lets hope its one episode we, as a species have all learnt from.

Part of history unfortunately involves pointing the finger of blame. I was raised by extremely nationalistic "patriotic" parents, and taught all my life that America was the "best country" and that we were the "good guys". When i found out the truth i lost a great deal of respect for my parents' intelligence and never really trusted their judgement after that.

It was another time, but people and their attitudes are the same as they were then, howbeit with a veneer of progressive thinking that could easily be stripped off in the right circumstances. "Pointing the finger" is necessary to make us acutely aware of where we come from, who our forefathers really were, and who we might become ourselves if we get too arrogant.


Honibaz

Captain_Scarlet wrote:Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee should be compulsory reading in all schools however it is history, its done and dusted, it can't be changed and there is nothing to be gained pointing the finger of blame, it was another time and attitudes were so radically different and lets hope its one episode we, as a species have all learnt from.

Except, it really isn't done.

Did you know that a woman raped by a white on many native reservations has almost no chance of convicting her attacker? Did you know that the poverty rate among Native Americans (aside from a few lucky "casino" tribes) is the lowest in the US, and that a large part of that is directly attributable to US and BIA policies?

Did you know, for example, that Thunderheart (the movie) is based upon real events?
Do you know anything of AIM and the events of Wounded Knee just a few years (oK a couple of decades..) ago?
Link to NPR article/story http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=92833011

If you have the ability, here is link to PBS podcasts, etc of the recent set of documentaries We Shall Remain.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/weshallremain/native_now/

b.k. barunt wrote:

Captain_Scarlet wrote:. . . however it is history, its done and dusted, it can't be changed and there is nothing to be gained pointing the finger of blame, it was another time and attitudes were so radically different and lets hope its one episode we, as a species have all learnt from.

Part of history unfortunately involves pointing the finger of blame. I was raised by extremely nationalistic "patriotic" parents, and taught all my life that America was the "best country" and that we were the "good guys". When i found out the truth i lost a great deal of respect for my parents' intelligence and never really trusted their judgement after that.

It was another time, but people and their attitudes are the same as they were then, howbeit with a veneer of progressive thinking that could easily be stripped off in the right circumstances. "Pointing the finger" is necessary to make us acutely aware of where we come from, who our forefathers really were, and who we might become ourselves if we get too arrogant.


Honibaz

You have just explained much of the 60's

(or, I should say, put forward a common explanation for the 60's)

PLAYER57832 wrote:

Captain_Scarlet wrote:Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee should be compulsory reading in all schools however it is history, its done and dusted, it can't be changed and there is nothing to be gained pointing the finger of blame, it was another time and attitudes were so radically different and lets hope its one episode we, as a species have all learnt from.

Except, it really isn't done.

Did you know that a woman raped by a white on many native reservations has almost no chance of convicting her attacker? Did you know that the poverty rate among Native Americans (aside from a few lucky "casino" tribes) is the lowest in the US, and that a large part of that is directly attributable to US and BIA policies?

Did you know, for example, that Thunderheart (the movie) is based upon real events?
Do you know anything of AIM and the events of Wounded Knee just a few years (oK a couple of decades..) ago?
Link to NPR article/story http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=92833011

If you have the ability, here is link to PBS podcasts, etc of the recent set of documentaries We Shall Remain.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/weshallremain/native_now/

actually even though I am in Australia I do know something about the situation as it is mirrored here in part by the Koorie

Thunderheart I am more than familiar with but prehaps it would be better to suggest reading "In the Spirit of Crazy Horse" by Peter Matthiessen

obviously this is a very passionate and a very personal topic to you

Captain_Scarlet wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:

Captain_Scarlet wrote:Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee should be compulsory reading in all schools however it is history, its done and dusted, it can't be changed and there is nothing to be gained pointing the finger of blame, it was another time and attitudes were so radically different and lets hope its one episode we, as a species have all learnt from.

Except, it really isn't done.

Did you know that a woman raped by a white on many native reservations has almost no chance of convicting her attacker? Did you know that the poverty rate among Native Americans (aside from a few lucky "casino" tribes) is the lowest in the US, and that a large part of that is directly attributable to US and BIA policies?

Did you know, for example, that Thunderheart (the movie) is based upon real events?
Do you know anything of AIM and the events of Wounded Knee just a few years (oK a couple of decades..) ago?
Link to NPR article/story http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=92833011

If you have the ability, here is link to PBS podcasts, etc of the recent set of documentaries We Shall Remain.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/weshallremain/native_now/

actually even though I am in Australia I do know something about the situation as it is mirrored here in part by the Koorie

Thunderheart I am more than familiar with but prehaps it would be better to suggest reading "In the Spirit of Crazy Horse" by Peter Matthiessen

obviously this is a very passionate and a very personal topic to you

Oops forgot you were Australian. And you probably know more of our abuses than I know of yours (though I am not entirely ignorant of Australian history).

Yes, Thunderheart is hardly a documentary. I only mentioned it because so many people do know it.

When i got out of the army in 1970 i traveled around the country for a while, and stopped in South Dakota at one of the Oglala reservations (could've been the one in "Thunderheart" - looked the same) to visit a friend that i was in Nam with.

The poverty is depressing, but the alcoholism there was one of the most heartbreaking things i've experienced in my life. They are the finest people to be around that i've ever met, and when they drink they become the worst. The tribal police bully the people worse than the whites, and they're so corrupt that i asked my friend once why he hadn't killed any of them. He said he hadn't got around to it. I stayed there 3 weeks and couldn't handle the alcoholism anymore, so i left.


Honibaz

The problem with the Indians is that they had a liberal immigration policy. Before they knew it, they were overwhelmed with a WHITE man's high birth rate and of course uncontrolled immigration. So, the conclusion is that, the Indians shot themselves in the foot.

Today America is once again being flooded by illegal aliens, but this time from South of the border. So, the Hispanics will over-populate the WHITES, BLACKS and ASIANS and take control of the USA. We'll become part of Mexico and be herded into reservations.

How history repeats itself.

GENERAL STONEHAM wrote:The problem with the Indians is that they had a liberal immigration policy. Before they knew it, they were overwhelmed with a WHITE man's high birth rate and of course uncontrolled immigration. So, the conclusion is that, the Indians shot themselves in the foot.

Today America is once again being flooded by illegal aliens, but this time from South of the border. So, the Hispanics will over-populate the WHITES, BLACKS and ASIANS and take control of the USA. We'll become part of Mexico and be herded into reservations.

How history repeats itself.

Nice try, but completely inaccurate, and pretty offensive -- particularly in this thread. Or didn't you realize that those "Mexicans" you deride are largely descendents of native populations from down south.

By the time Europeans came, the native peoples had already been heavily diminished by disease. Older history had it being Small Pox, but newer histories point to the Plague as being a more likely culprit. It was our diseases, more than anything else that really did the Native Americans in.

Deriding MEXICANS!?! Save me the drivel!

Mexicans and in fact many of us are not pure-blooded anything.

Go ask Geronimo about Mexicans being Indians. He'll tell you that they raped and killed his family.

What happened to the Indians is sad, but it ends there. Many ethnic and religious groups have been put down by stronger and better armed groups.

Today, we are being flooded by illegal aliens. Illegal aliens who flood our schools, hospitals, jails and other freebies, paid for by AMERICANS and those who came into this country LEGALLY!

Invasion can be violent or come by a flooding of immigrants. Immigrants who don't feel that they have to learn our language or assimilate.

So, just like the Indians who thought trading with Whites was great, eventually succumbed to disease, famine and other fun stuff, we too can become a statistic.

GENERAL STONEHAM wrote:Deriding MEXICANS!?! Save me the drivel!

Mexicans and in fact many of us are not pure-blooded anything.

Go ask Geronimo about Mexicans being Indians. He'll tell you that they raped and killed his family.

What happened to the Indians is sad, but it ends there. Many ethnic and religious groups have been put down by stronger and better armed groups.

Today, we are being flooded by illegal aliens. Illegal aliens who flood our schools, hospitals, jails and other freebies, paid for by AMERICANS and those who came into this country LEGALLY!

Invasion can be violent or come by a flooding of immigrants. Immigrants who don't feel that they have to learn our language or assimilate.

So, just like the Indians who thought trading with Whites was great, eventually succumbed to disease, famine and other fun stuff, we too can become a statistic.

This is not the thread for your rant. The subject is Native American Genocide, not your feelings on immigration.

Oh jeez STONEY... the history that repeats itself is more likely to be the greedy bastards with the financial clout to increase their wealth with no regard for the effect it has on the people around them. Immigration is certainly an issue, but it's going to happen and all people will have to adjust to the times they live in. There probably aren't enough Mexicans living in close proximity to you for you to realise what warm hearted people they are... or you haven't taken the personal initiative to introduce yourself and perhaps rely on the stereotypes you've heard to form an opinion about their nature.

Before America was America it was the English, French and Spanish who were dominating the World and all had colonizing interests in the "New World" which would eventually become these United States. As has been previously stated those were very different times and good or bad, how it came to pass is some fascinating history.

It's amazing how long the indiginous nations of the New England region did co-exist with the French and English who settled there. These tribal people were not ignorant and knew exactly what they were up against. They also knew that the odds were against them and that violence would not solve the growing numbers of people encroaching on their homeland. The American Experience: After the Mayflower does a good job of telling this story and is well worth the time to watch.

PLAYER57832 wrote:

GENERAL STONEHAM wrote:Deriding MEXICANS!?! Save me the drivel!

Mexicans and in fact many of us are not pure-blooded anything.

Go ask Geronimo about Mexicans being Indians. He'll tell you that they raped and killed his family.

What happened to the Indians is sad, but it ends there. Many ethnic and religious groups have been put down by stronger and better armed groups.

Today, we are being flooded by illegal aliens. Illegal aliens who flood our schools, hospitals, jails and other freebies, paid for by AMERICANS and those who came into this country LEGALLY!

Invasion can be violent or come by a flooding of immigrants. Immigrants who don't feel that they have to learn our language or assimilate.

So, just like the Indians who thought trading with Whites was great, eventually succumbed to disease, famine and other fun stuff, we too can become a statistic.

This is not the thread for your rant. The subject is Native American Genocide, not your feelings on immigration.

Player, since when did you make yourself the Moderator for these threads?

Yes, the subject is Genocide of Indians. WOW! Check out the brains on Player.

The Indians waged war on each other and Geronimo was hunted down by Apache scouts. In fact many Indian tribes helped out White soldiers, traders and trappers to wipe out Indians who didn't belong to their own tribe. Sometimes the Indians were their own worse enemy.

So, they couldn't assimilate with the WHITE people and they got squashed like bugs. Uncontrolled immigration of WHITES, led to the downfall of the American Indians, just like it happened in Central America and South America.

You see Player or perhaps you don't, the Europeans refused to assimilate to Indian culture. Just like the illegal aliens refuse to assimilate to the American way of life. But, why should they? We have Hispanic t.v. programming and radio too. Also, they have bilinqual teachers in American schools, paid for by AMERICAN taxpayers. They have their own SPANISH newspapers and their very own racist's organization called, "La Raza." Do you know what La Raza means in ENGLISH? Well, I'll tell you whether you care or not, it means "The Race." Hmmm, I wonder what race they mean? Can you imagine, if a WHITE organization called themselves "THE RACE?"
Oh my GOD!!!! Fucking racist!

Player, you don't like talking or discussing Hispanics fine, but don't try to steer this thread to your liking.

oVo wrote:Oh jeez STONEY... the history that repeats itself is more likely to be the greedy bastards with the financial clout to increase their wealth with no regard for the effect it has on the people around them. Immigration is certainly an issue, but it's going to happen and all people will have to adjust to the times they live in. There probably aren't enough Mexicans living in close proximity to you for you to realise what warm hearted people they are... or you haven't taken the personal initiative to introduce yourself and perhaps rely on the stereotypes you've heard to form an opinion about their nature.

Before America was America it was the English, French and Spanish who were dominating the World and all had colonizing interests in the "New World" which would eventually become these United States. As has been previously stated those were very different times and good or bad, how it came to pass is some fascinating history.

It's amazing how long the indiginous nations of the New England region did co-exist with the French and English who settled there. These tribal people were not ignorant and knew exactly what they were up against. They also knew that the odds were against them and that violence would not solve the growing numbers of people encroaching on their homeland. The American Experience: After the Mayflower does a good job of telling this story and is well worth the time to watch.

Oh my, another poor bleeding heart.

I got news for you, I'm very informed about illegal aliens. I live in a town that's 40% Hispanic. The schools on my side of town our predominately Hispanic. Our County Jail which was built just last year is already overcrowded. ONE THIRD of the prisoners waiting for sentencing are ILLEGAL ALIENS!

Our schools are flooded with students, who's native language ain't ENGLISH. They receive welfare, food stamps and free meals at school. They have bilinqual education for their children at our schools. They don't need to assimilate, they live and work in Hispanic Ghettos.

They flood our hospitals and receive free healthcare at AMERICAN TAXPAYER EXPENSE. Their children form gangs and commit major crimes in our neighborhoods. They have become a burden on our Judicial System, Jails, hospitals, schools and welfare. They come and rent out homes, then they fill up the home with 2 to 3 generations of families and friends. They steal our identities, so they can work in our factories and other fields. This also includes working for peanuts with no benefits. This hurts the average AMERICAN WORKER.

Dial 1 for ENGLISH

Dial 2 for DEPORTATION

The story of indiginous people on every continent of the planet is very similar and ongoing. Whether you live in Canada, Australia, South America, Africa or the USA there are similar histories and ongoing events you can read about.

In the early 1800's the Cherokee Nation encompassed the southern part of Kentucky, all of Tennessee as well as the nothern parts of Mississippi, Alabama and Georgia. They had educated leaders and defined territorial borders as a sovereign nation legally recognized by the Supreme Court of United States of America. Georgia wanted their land and America wanted room to expand. It didn't help when gold was discovered in the territory and President Andrew Jackson defied the edicts of the Supreme Court by not allowing federal troops to protect the Cherokee claims or enforce the rulings by the Supreme Court.

Instead The State of Georgia and President Jackson declared it was time for the Cherokee Nation to relocate to the Oklahoma Territories west of the Mississippi River. Terms were presented to the tribe and about 20% of the indians gave up their homes and moved on to Oklahoma with the assistance and protection of the US Military. Within a year or so after that "voluntary" migration the Cherokees who stayed behind were evicted by force and placed in internment camps until a future time when they too could be sent west. It is that detainment and the march west of those remaining Cherokee in 1838 that became known as The Trail of Tears.

The American Experience: "We Shall Remain" tells the story of this piece of American history.
Episode 1 - After the Mayflower
Episode 2 - Tecumseh's Vision
Episode 3 - The Trail of Tears
Episode 4 - Geronimo
Episode 5 - Wounded Knee