Civil War or Just Sectarian Violence

[Twill]

kitten, you would like this game

http://www.socialimpactgames.com/module ... =1&thold=0

[ksslemp]

not trying to say that all soldiers are there to rape women, far from it. the vast majority of them have only the best intentions of others at heart.

but...
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wir ... id=2171860
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/07/09/soldi ... index.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00545.html
http://www.aztlan.net/iraqi_women_raped.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6156656.stm
(yes, I do understand that these site hold biases, and in that aztlan case, rather extreme biases...I dont necessarily agree with any of them, but they represent the power of propoganda and I promise you someone is using this in a very anti-US way somewhere)

These HUGELY undermine any sort of credability that the US ever had. These are EXACTLY the things that will be grabbed and used by extremists, terrorists and general "bad guys" to recruit and incite violence against US occupational forces.

What you quoted was intended to show the worst of what US soliders have done...and indeed soldiers from many armies have done...with the expressed intent of suggesting that these acts need to stop, now and because they have happened have undeniably and forever harmed the US mission in Iraq to a point that may not be repairable.

That's all.

But, you are more than welcome to your opinion that I belong in hell when I pull my head out of my ass. Just like I think that you need to look critically at what I am saying and not just provide a knee-jerk reaction because you think I am insulting you, your friends, soldiers or the american mission in Iraq.

Have a good one.

Twill

Yes, Aztlan.net IS Propoganda, and Racist Propoganda at that!
You can't stop these "Insidents" from happening, it just isn't going to happen. You can try, and we do but it's just the way of the World.

We have to stop analysing every story as if its real news and discard reports from sites until they show a proven record of TRUTH. thats all i care about, TRUTH. Bending facts, reporting things "Out of Context" is LYING!, pure and simple.

Their propoganda, and blowing things out of proportion has worked, but lets make sure it only works on the Ignorant, and not elevate these stories in the U.S. news to a position higher than deserved. Which is what our media is doing today. Its a war on ignorance, and the net has done wonders to increase this with its Conspirancy theories galore!

This is the problem, you have very isolated insidents of dirtbags in the military doing horrendous things and those are the only stories put out there. the same story, day after day after day. small incidents that happen much more frequently in every major city in America. reported on for the sole purpose of making the U.S. look bad! Reported by "American" reporters (and i say this loosely) looking for a headline for there own personal aggrandizement, they don't care how it makes us look to the World. Its just ME ME ME, and look at ME, look at what I found! another Evil BUSH administration "Cover-Up" They all dream of being the next Woodward, the country be Damned!
It just makes me and a lot of Americans sick!

just Me and my Knee-Jerk reaction.

[ksslemp]

or we could send every single person who is in the military, every other person who wants to serve, close off all the borders, and just move in until everyone who is fighting against the government is dead...no prisoners, nothing...if you have a gun pointed at us, we shoot you...end of story...that would work too...

That would mean Armegeddon! a little larger conflict than we want i think!
The problem is a little more Complex than that.

No Offense.

[areon]

I don't think you can argue that the good stories in Iraq are not being reported. The reporters on the ground aren't going around looking for the dirtiest stories either. I've only heard a small amount done on the ineffective Iraq military/police forces. Usually they will say that American and Iraqi forces working in conjuction did something. Why aren't we hearing about the lack of infrastructure in Iraq? That isn't being reported on heavily when water and electrical systems are completely unavailable to Iraqi people.

A prelude to a civil war is no better than a civil war, usually the prelude to something is imminent. If it was just sectarian then why are shi'ite killing shi'ite? Al-Sadr and his block have been boycotting the parliament deliberately for the past week to destabilize it. We won't be able to stop it and all of these plans for a fazed withdrawal by 08 is nonsense. That's just a political move, we'll see if Bush accepts or rejects the Baker report.

[vtmarik]

I agree with the "Struggle against global extremism" instead of "war on terror" or "islamofascist" instead of "islamic fundamentalist." notion, but this doesn't correspond to your "civil war/sectarian violence" argument. Sectarian Violence is not equal to Civil War, more like Sectarian Violence = Denominational War. A Civil War refers to a struggle for Control of a Gov't or region.

Why do you think they're fighting? Neither side likes the US-installed government, so they're fighting in the perceived power vacuum.

It is "Sectarian Violence", with no aim revenge!
If the methodist and protestants were killing eachother in America, would you call it a Civil War? NO, you'd call it "Sectarian Violence"! and Madness!

If they were fighting to turn their particular version of the religion into a theocracy, i'd call it a civil war.

We have to stop analysing every story as if its real news and discard reports from sites until they show a proven record of TRUTH. thats all i care about, TRUTH. Bending facts, reporting things "Out of Context" is LYING!, pure and simple.

Their propoganda, and blowing things out of proportion has worked, but lets make sure it only works on the Ignorant, and not elevate these stories in the U.S. news to a position higher than deserved. Which is what our media is doing today. Its a war on ignorance, and the net has done wonders to increase this with its Conspirancy theories galore!

This is the problem, you have very isolated insidents of dirtbags in the military doing horrendous things and those are the only stories put out there. the same story, day after day after day. small incidents that happen much more frequently in every major city in America. reported on for the sole purpose of making the U.S. look bad! Reported by "American" reporters (and i say this loosely) looking for a headline for there own personal aggrandizement, they don't care how it makes us look to the World. Its just ME ME ME, and look at ME, look at what I found! another Evil BUSH administration "Cover-Up" They all dream of being the next Woodward, the country be Damned!
It just makes me and a lot of Americans sick!

As an American, this makes me sick.

And what makes me sicker is the soldiers doing this aren't even going to get a slap on the wrist.

Sure, these actions may be in the minority, but that doesn't diminish how wrong they are.

How much does it take before it becomes wrong to you? 50 reports? 100? 1000?

[Caleb the Cruel]

I don't think you can argue that the good stories in Iraq are not being reported. The reporters on the ground aren't going around looking for the dirtiest stories either.

Do you even watch the news? ever?
Sure, an occassional "good" story will appear on the news, but it is very rare. And when one does appear it almost always has a bad twist in it somewhere.
And reporters do look for the most negative things because they know that people will be attracted to them. It's human nature to be attracted to dirty stories, and the media is feeding off of it.
It's also scary how the media can control people's thoughts. Even I, a supporter Bush's decisions in Iraq, began to waver on my opinion after hearing NBC call it a civil war. I also do admit that it fits the technical definition of a civil war but calling it a civil war makes it sound a lot worse than I think it is, sectarian violence is a much better phrasing for it for my blood.

[ksslemp]

I agree with the "Struggle against global extremism" instead of "war on terror" or "islamofascist" instead of "islamic fundamentalist." notion, but this doesn't correspond to your "civil war/sectarian violence" argument. Sectarian Violence is not equal to Civil War, more like Sectarian Violence = Denominational War. A Civil War refers to a struggle for Control of a Gov't or region.

Why do you think they're fighting? Neither side likes the US-installed government, so they're fighting in the perceived power vacuum.

It is "Sectarian Violence", with no aim revenge!
If the methodist and protestants were killing eachother in America, would you call it a Civil War? NO, you'd call it "Sectarian Violence"! and Madness!

If they were fighting to turn their particular version of the religion into a theocracy, i'd call it a civil war.

We have to stop analysing every story as if its real news and discard reports from sites until they show a proven record of TRUTH. thats all i care about, TRUTH. Bending facts, reporting things "Out of Context" is LYING!, pure and simple.

Their propoganda, and blowing things out of proportion has worked, but lets make sure it only works on the Ignorant, and not elevate these stories in the U.S. news to a position higher than deserved. Which is what our media is doing today. Its a war on ignorance, and the net has done wonders to increase this with its Conspirancy theories galore!

This is the problem, you have very isolated insidents of dirtbags in the military doing horrendous things and those are the only stories put out there. the same story, day after day after day. small incidents that happen much more frequently in every major city in America. reported on for the sole purpose of making the U.S. look bad! Reported by "American" reporters (and i say this loosely) looking for a headline for there own personal aggrandizement, they don't care how it makes us look to the World. Its just ME ME ME, and look at ME, look at what I found! another Evil BUSH administration "Cover-Up" They all dream of being the next Woodward, the country be Damned!
It just makes me and a lot of Americans sick!

As an American, this makes me sick.

And what makes me sicker is the soldiers doing this aren't even going to get a slap on the wrist.

Sure, these actions may be in the minority, but that doesn't diminish how wrong they are.

How much does it take before it becomes wrong to you? 50 reports? 100? 1000?

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, THEY'RE GOING TO JAIL!
GET INFORMED!

And in regards to your last sentence, I'M THINKING 37,895! of course its wrong, and they're being dealt with!
Thats what Americans do, they punish people like that. Which side are you on?

[areon]

I don't think you can argue that the good stories in Iraq are not being reported. The reporters on the ground aren't going around looking for the dirtiest stories either.

Do you even watch the news? ever?
Sure, an occassional "good" story will appear on the news, but it is very rare. And when one does appear it almost always has a bad twist in it somewhere.
And reporters do look for the most negative things because they know that people will be attracted to them. It's human nature to be attracted to dirty stories, and the media is feeding off of it.
It's also scary how the media can control people's thoughts. Even I, a supporter Bush's decisions in Iraq, began to waver on my opinion after hearing NBC call it a civil war. I also do admit that it fits the technical definition of a civil war but calling it a civil war makes it sound a lot worse than I think it is, sectarian violence is a much better phrasing for it for my blood.

No I don't watch "mainstream" news, they are more interested in ratings. TV will always be TV, even the history channel has to deal with that. When I read articles that show different angles I tend to think they actually made an effort to be objective. Especially if the information is verified somewhere else.