ObamaCare - exchanges ,report your states options!

[jsholty4690]

If you want to pay more taxes go ahead. Do not impose your taxes on other people. The IRS accepts checks. I already pay half my fucking income with nothing to show for it except road construction, which never seems to have enough money. WHY WOULD ANYONE GIVE ANOTHER DIME TO A BLACK HOLE GOV'T?????????????????????????????????????????

Normally, I would agree with you on the tax issue, but right now the government is in so much debt that the clearest way out of it is a tax increase. Heck, I don't want to pay taxes, but it is the most logical way to get out of debt, at this moment.

[Phatscotty]

If you want to pay more taxes go ahead. Do not impose your taxes on other people. The IRS accepts checks. I already pay half my fucking income with nothing to show for it except road construction, which never seems to have enough money. WHY WOULD ANYONE GIVE ANOTHER DIME TO A BLACK HOLE GOV'T?????????????????????????????????????????

Normally, I would agree with you on the tax issue, but right now the government is in so much debt that the clearest way out of it is a tax increase. Heck, I don't want to pay taxes, but it is the most logical way to get out of debt, at this moment.

OK, so they are SOOOOOO bad at holding a budget, you justify that as a reason to give them more? Think about it

[PLAYER57832]

If you want to pay more taxes go ahead. Do not impose your taxes on other people. The IRS accepts checks. I already pay half my fucking income with nothing to show for it except road construction, which never seems to have enough money. WHY WOULD ANYONE GIVE ANOTHER DIME TO A BLACK HOLE GOV'T?????????????????????????????????????????

Normally, I would agree with you on the tax issue, but right now the government is in so much debt that the clearest way out of it is a tax increase. Heck, I don't want to pay taxes, but it is the most logical way to get out of debt, at this moment.

OK, so they are SOOOOOO bad at holding a budget, you justify that as a reason to give them more? Think about it

The government of today is not the government of 4 years ago or 8 years ago ... think about it.

[PopeBenXVI]

The Gov can't run any other programs efficiently so lets move towards them controlling about 20% of our entire economy once the public option destroys private insurance.....and it will. Then when people start to get their rationed care down the road in order to "keep costs low" they will realize it sucks and they had it better before. Just compare the cancer deaths alone in America compared to canada along with the waiting time to get needed treatment. It will be too late once they pass this because the government will not give it back to private companies if it's not working. They would lose all that money to play with too and we all know how the Gov likes more money to squander.

If they were truly interested in affordable healthcare for every American (as opposed to control of everyone) they would not have added all the unnecessary and expensive Bull$&!$ in that bill like free healthcare for millions of illegals and abortions for anyone. It would be a clean bill of reform not 1000 pages of crap. Nothing is free and all the freeloaders out there are going to screw everyone. They can reform the current system without taking it over which is where this is headed.

[Phatscotty]

The Gov can't run any other programs efficiently so lets move towards them controlling about 20% of our entire economy once the public option destroys private insurance.....and it will. Then when people start to get their rationed care down the road in order to "keep costs low" they will realize it sucks and they had it better before. Just compare the cancer deaths alone in America compared to canada along with the waiting time to get needed treatment. It will be too late once they pass this because the government will not give it back to private companies if it's not working. They would lose all that money to play with too and we all know how the Gov likes more money to squander.

If they were truly interested in affordable healthcare for every American (as opposed to control of everyone) they would not have added all the unnecessary and expensive Bull$&!$ in that bill like free healthcare for millions of illegals and abortions for anyone. It would be a clean bill of reform not 1000 pages of crap. Nothing is free and all the freeloaders out there are going to screw everyone. They can reform the current system without taking it over which is where this is headed.

like your comment, can't figure your signature tho

[PopeBenXVI]

The Gov can't run any other programs efficiently so lets move towards them controlling about 20% of our entire economy once the public option destroys private insurance.....and it will. Then when people start to get their rationed care down the road in order to "keep costs low" they will realize it sucks and they had it better before. Just compare the cancer deaths alone in America compared to canada along with the waiting time to get needed treatment. It will be too late once they pass this because the government will not give it back to private companies if it's not working. They would lose all that money to play with too and we all know how the Gov likes more money to squander.

If they were truly interested in affordable healthcare for every American (as opposed to control of everyone) they would not have added all the unnecessary and expensive Bull$&!$ in that bill like free healthcare for millions of illegals and abortions for anyone. It would be a clean bill of reform not 1000 pages of crap. Nothing is free and all the freeloaders out there are going to screw everyone. They can reform the current system without taking it over which is where this is headed.

like your comment, can't figure your signature tho

It's pointing out to those who do not know history that we have only had 2 world wars not 3. Aside from that, 100 Million people died in the first 2 wars and way less than that die from DUI's each year....WAAAAAAYYYYYY LESSSSSSSS

[Phatscotty]

players an idiot, nothing he says is true and gets to name-calling in 2.2

[spurgistan]

Yep, if there's one poster here who reduces everything down to two lines of ad hominem, it's player57832. If only she wrote a bit more substantially...

[PLAYER57832]

Even if the US bureaucracy is so much more worse than in Europe, this will still perform so much more better than the current system.

As I've said many times, it doesn't have to be an all or nothing debate. My problem with the current healthcare plan (which I have actually read) is that it is an "all" plan. I think we can have universal healthcare without a government single-payor system. This is generally called compromise, and is generally what happens in the United States.

(1) Federal government creates regulations making it easier for Americans to get health insurance coverage instead of getting the runaround from their providers
(2) Federal government expands and revamps Medicare to ensure that the uninsured Americans who cannot afford health insurance get coverage.

That should work well without having a single payor system.

The current health care bill does not include a single-payor system.

I would like to see one, yes, but that is not in the bill.

[comic boy]

players an idiot, nothing he says is true and gets to name-calling in 2.2

Wise words from the retard who, despite her describing herself as a mother hundreds of times, cannot work out players sex yet

[Snorri1234]

players an idiot, nothing he says is true and gets to name-calling in 2.2

Wise words from the retard who, despite her describing herself as a mother hundreds of times, cannot work out players sex yet

There is a chance she's Arnold Schwarzenegger though.

[Snorri1234]

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=333933006516877


Yay for crazy conservatives.

Best part:

People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless.

Funniest shit ever.

[Snorri1234]

The Gov can't run any other programs efficiently

Since the private companies can't either, who cares?

so lets move towards them controlling about 20% of our entire economy once the public option destroys private insurance....
.and it will.

IT WILL DESTROY PRIVATE OPTIONS EVEN THOUGH OUR ENTIRE POLITICAL VIEWPOINT REVOLVES AROUND HOW AWESOME PRIVATE STUFF IS LIKE HEAPS BETTER THAN GOVERNMENT STUFF!!!!

Seriously, you fucks better stop toting around this backwards viewpoint which is untrue from both a practical and a theoretical view and just admit you're wrong.

Then when people start to get their rationed care down the road in order to "keep costs low" they will realize it sucks and they had it better before.

Just like all those people in Europe complaining?

Wait....the complaints in Europe are nearly non-existent! BY GODS!

Just compare the cancer deaths alone in America compared to canada along with the waiting time to get needed treatment.

Done. Are you seriously saying that just leaving the poor people with cancer to die is awesome?

If they were truly interested in affordable healthcare for every American (as opposed to control of everyone) they would not have added all the unnecessary and expensive Bull$&!$ in that bill like free healthcare for millions of illegals and abortions for anyone.

Uhhhrrr.....are you sure you're not just letting your backwards and racist views influence your judgment?

It would be a clean bill of reform not 1000 pages of crap.

Yes indeed. If you complete retards who oppose Universal Health Care on the grounds of it being "socialist" would just shut the f*ck up this bill would be far smaller.

Nothing is free and all the freeloaders out there are going to screw everyone.

So warn us when this bill mentions things are going to be "free". In the event that these mythical freeloaders approach the number of people who go bankrupt over medical bills each year in the US I'm sure you'd be so kind as to drop us a line. (60% of the bankruptcies in the US are due to medical bills, whereas in the rest of the western world that number is 0%.)

They can reform the current system without taking it over which is where this is headed.

Soooo why is that awesome reform not being promoted?

[Titanic]

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=333933006516877


Yay for crazy conservatives.

Best part:

People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless.

Funniest shit ever.

Possibly the greatest quote ever.

[PopeBenXVI]

The Gov can't run any other programs efficiently

Since the private companies can't either, who cares?

So every private company out there must be bankrupt then.

so lets move towards them controlling about 20% of our entire economy once the public option destroys private insurance....
.and it will.

IT WILL DESTROY PRIVATE OPTIONS EVEN THOUGH OUR ENTIRE POLITICAL VIEWPOINT REVOLVES AROUND HOW AWESOME PRIVATE STUFF IS LIKE HEAPS BETTER THAN GOVERNMENT STUFF!!!!

I never said "how awesome" private stuff is. I am saying the Gov controlling things is no better and is dangerous. They are running some healthcare right now and IT"S GOING BROKE! Show me the proof they will keep the costs down.

Seriously, you fucks better stop toting around this backwards viewpoint which is untrue from both a practical and a theoretical view and just admit you're wrong.

Then when people start to get their rationed care down the road in order to "keep costs low" they will realize it sucks and they had it better before.

Just like all those people in Europe complaining?

Wait....the complaints in Europe are nearly non-existent! BY GODS!

Really? How many people from the U.S. go abroad for healthcare services now and how many from abroad come here who can not get care in their own country?

Just compare the cancer deaths alone in America compared to canada along with the waiting time to get needed treatment.

Done. Are you seriously saying that just leaving the poor people with cancer to die is awesome?

If they were truly interested in affordable healthcare for every American (as opposed to control of everyone) they would not have added all the unnecessary and expensive Bull$&!$ in that bill like free healthcare for millions of illegals and abortions for anyone.

Uhhhrrr.....are you sure you're not just letting your backwards and racist views influence your judgment?

Uhhhrrr.....No, I am saying that AMERICAN taxpayers should not be TAXED to provide FREE healthcare to ILLEGALS when the goal is supposedly AFFORDABLE CARE FOR AMERICANS! When has Obama been pitching we need to cover 12 million illegals? What about this don't you understand?

It would be a clean bill of reform not 1000 pages of crap.

Yes indeed. If you complete retards who oppose Universal Health Care on the grounds of it being "socialist" would just shut the f*ck up this bill would be far smaller.

That just makes no sense so maybe you try to explain how stupid you are by saying that. Sooooo us opposing the current bill because we think there is too much crap in it somehow makes it longer? Ok, got it.

Nothing is free and all the freeloaders out there are going to screw everyone.

So warn us when this bill mentions things are going to be "free". In the event that these mythical freeloaders approach the number of people who go bankrupt over medical bills each year in the US I'm sure you'd be so kind as to drop us a line. (60% of the bankruptcies in the US are due to medical bills, whereas in the rest of the western world that number is 0%.)

A bill which will provide free care for 12 million illegals.....Hmmmm ok I'll let you know when a different bill gives free care as the current one. Also, 12 million freeloaders from Mexico surpass the number of Americans who go bankrupt over medical each year 10-1. So yeah, I'll let you know, oh wait I just did.

They can reform the current system without taking it over which is where this is headed.

Soooo why is that awesome reform not being promoted?

Because Obama is not interested in that.

[Snorri1234]

The Gov can't run any other programs efficiently

Since the private companies can't either, who cares?

So every private company out there must be bankrupt then.

Oh I thought you were talking about "efficiently providing care".

I never said "how awesome" private stuff is. I am saying the Gov controlling things is no better and is dangerous. They are running some healthcare right now and IT"S GOING BROKE! Show me the proof they will keep the costs down.

Bollocks, you talk about how awesome the private market is all the time.
As for proof that they will keep costs down, I'm just making the reasonable assumption that the US government isn't vastly more incompetent than any other nation's government.

And I don't mean a little more incompetent, I mean an unbelievably shit ton of incompetent.

Really? How many people from the U.S. go abroad for healthcare services now and how many from abroad come here who can not get care in their own country?

Poll on whether americans consider traveling abroad for care.
Story about millions of Americans traveling abroad each year for care.
http://news.health.com/2009/04/08/traveling-treatment/

Want me to give you more stories?

Uhhhrrr.....No, I am saying that AMERICAN taxpayers should not be TAXED to provide FREE healthcare to ILLEGALS when the goal is supposedly AFFORDABLE CARE FOR AMERICANS! When has Obama been pitching we need to cover 12 million illegals? What about this don't you understand?

Unless illegals are denied emergency care, something which will not happen anywhere in the near future, providing them with actual good care is cheaper for the American taxpayer.

I mean, you can be all opposed to it ideologically but the fact is that it saves money.

That just makes no sense so maybe you try to explain how stupid you are by saying that. Sooooo us opposing the current bill because we think there is too much crap in it somehow makes it longer? Ok, got it.

No you mong. You guys opposing every program adds unnecessary stuff to it because the billmakers try to please you. The same thing happened with the bailout; unnecessary clauses and so get added to draw senators over the line.

A bill which will provide free care for 12 million illegals.....Hmmmm ok I'll let you know when a different bill gives free care as the current one. Also, 12 million freeloaders from Mexico surpass the number of Americans who go bankrupt over medical each year 10-1. So yeah, I'll let you know, oh wait I just did.

Yeah.....these 12 million illegals are already freeloading. The only thing this bill changes is that they will now cost less money.

Seriously, if all you can object to in this bill comes down to how much you dislike illegal immigrants just shut up.

Because Obama is not interested in that.

Soooooo.....the only way to do anything in your country is to wait for the President to do it?

[Nobunaga]

... Page 805 is interesting. "Home Visitations" to check on your kids. Are you raising them properly?

...

[PopeBenXVI]

The Gov can't run any other programs efficiently

Since the private companies can't either, who cares?

So every private company out there must be bankrupt then.

Oh I thought you were talking about "efficiently providing care".

I never said "how awesome" private stuff is. I am saying the Gov controlling things is no better and is dangerous. They are running some healthcare right now and IT"S GOING BROKE! Show me the proof they will keep the costs down.

Bollocks, you talk about how awesome the private market is all the time.
As for proof that they will keep costs down, I'm just making the reasonable assumption that the US government isn't vastly more incompetent than any other nation's government.

And I don't mean a little more incompetent, I mean an unbelievably shit ton of incompetent.

Really? How many people from the U.S. go abroad for healthcare services now and how many from abroad come here who can not get care in their own country?

Poll on whether americans consider traveling abroad for care.
Story about millions of Americans traveling abroad each year for care.
http://news.health.com/2009/04/08/traveling-treatment/

Want me to give you more stories?

Uhhhrrr.....No, I am saying that AMERICAN taxpayers should not be TAXED to provide FREE healthcare to ILLEGALS when the goal is supposedly AFFORDABLE CARE FOR AMERICANS! When has Obama been pitching we need to cover 12 million illegals? What about this don't you understand?

Unless illegals are denied emergency care, something which will not happen anywhere in the near future, providing them with actual good care is cheaper for the American taxpayer.

I mean, you can be all opposed to it ideologically but the fact is that it saves money.

That just makes no sense so maybe you try to explain how stupid you are by saying that. Sooooo us opposing the current bill because we think there is too much crap in it somehow makes it longer? Ok, got it.

No you mong. You guys opposing every program adds unnecessary stuff to it because the billmakers try to please you. The same thing happened with the bailout; unnecessary clauses and so get added to draw senators over the line.

A bill which will provide free care for 12 million illegals.....Hmmmm ok I'll let you know when a different bill gives free care as the current one. Also, 12 million freeloaders from Mexico surpass the number of Americans who go bankrupt over medical each year 10-1. So yeah, I'll let you know, oh wait I just did.

Yeah.....these 12 million illegals are already freeloading. The only thing this bill changes is that they will now cost less money.

Seriously, if all you can object to in this bill comes down to how much you dislike illegal immigrants just shut up.

Because Obama is not interested in that.

Soooooo.....the only way to do anything in your country is to wait for the President to do it?

I might actually care what you think if you lived in this country but since you don't I really don't care. If you think it's so great to tax people to the rafters then why don't we tax you more? I am sure you would not disagree for everyone in your country to be taxed more to provide health care for all of Mexico then? After all, you are such a humanitarian and if you said that you did not want to be taxed for their free health care then you would be a racist. Many Africans need Health care too. India needs some, want to help them all?

Your an idiot. In America when we don't like what our representation is doing we protest it. People here don't like freeloaders. We promote hard work to earn your keep which has been what has made our country great. Unfortunately hard work has been less important to some in recent decades but we still protest. If you want to be taxed more to give health care to 12 million illegals then you do that. I am sure you can send a check to the Government right now and they would take it. I will give to my Church which runs free clinics with far more efficiency than any Government will and will have far more compassion with end of life care.

[PopeBenXVI]

This could be why some people are so upset.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07242009/po ... htm?page=0

[Snorri1234]

I might actually care what you think if you lived in this country but since you don't I really don't care.

Instead of a rebuttal disproving my facts you opt for the "You don't live here anyway so I don't care!!" approach. Interesting.

If you think it's so great to tax people to the rafters then why don't we tax you more?

When did I ever say I love taxes?

I am sure you would not disagree for everyone in your country to be taxed more to provide health care for all of Mexico then? After all, you are such a humanitarian and if you said that you did not want to be taxed for their free health care then you would be a racist. Many Africans need Health care too. India needs some, want to help them all?

Truthfully, I do not actually care about them. I don't care about the illegal immigrants much either. I do know that it would be cheaper to give them proper healthcare than to merely provide emergency care for them.

Your an idiot.

In America when we don't like what our representation is doing we protest it.

Jup, even when they're correct.

People here don't like freeloaders. We promote hard work to earn your keep which has been what has made our country great. Unfortunately hard work has been less important to some in recent decades but we still protest. If you want to be taxed more to give health care to 12 million illegals then you do that. I am sure you can send a check to the Government right now and they would take it.

I goddamn fucking do want to "pay more taxes" when it's cheaper. Maybe you like to pay twice as much as anyone else to get healthcare with a standard far below that of them just so that you can be at ease with your delusions that the government always fucks up and the free market always wins, but I don't.

I will give to my Church which runs free clinics with far more efficiency than any Government will and will have far more compassion with end of life care.

[Snorri1234]

This could be why some people are so upset.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07242009/po ... htm?page=0

I guess you seriously are retarded.

[thegreekdog]

Okay, can anyone (i.e. Snorri) explain to me why my reasoned and measured ideas for healthcare fixes are worse than either (1) the current system or (2) the healthcare plan currently on the table?

Also, apparently we're still arguing about whether the current healthcare plan will actually impose a single payor system when I've already explained how it will work (i.e. you have private health insurance, plan goes into effect, your plan is grandfathered in, you lose your job, you're on goverment health insurance).

Frankly, all I'm seeing is a lot of "it's socialism" rhetoric from one side and "you crazy conservative birthers" on the other side.

Finally, player is not an idiot, and is not a "he." So relax with that bullsh!t.

[Snorri1234]

Okay, can anyone (i.e. Snorri) explain to me why my reasoned and measured ideas for healthcare fixes are worse than either (1) the current system or (2) the healthcare plan currently on the table?

I don't know. I haven't seen these ideas anywhere. I can't actually explain why something sucks or is a good idea when noone wants to tell me what it is.

Also, apparently we're still arguing about whether the current healthcare plan will actually impose a single payor system when I've already explained how it will work (i.e. you have private health insurance, plan goes into effect, your plan is grandfathered in, you lose your job, you're on goverment health insurance).

Wait....I don't understand what you mean here. Are you agreeing that the private insurance will still exist?

Frankly, all I'm seeing is a lot of "it's socialism" rhetoric from one side and "you crazy conservative birthers" on the other side.

Hehe. True, but I'd like to see you reply to "it's socialism" in the face of facts and evidence and not eventually just resort to "you goddamn crazies". I mean, I disagree with you nearly all of the time but at least you ask questions that are harder to answer and also not the product of a deranged imagination.

[Snorri1234]

Okay, can anyone (i.e. Snorri) explain to me why my reasoned and measured ideas for healthcare fixes are worse than either (1) the current system or (2) the healthcare plan currently on the table?

I don't know. I haven't seen these ideas anywhere. I can't actually explain why something sucks or is a good idea when noone wants to tell me what it is.

Right. This is an invitation to provide a better alternative to the current plan. I don't really love the plan as is, I just think it's the best thing anyone has offered at the moment. So if you got a better plan that offers universal coverage I'm all ears.

[thegreekdog]

Okay, can anyone (i.e. Snorri) explain to me why my reasoned and measured ideas for healthcare fixes are worse than either (1) the current system or (2) the healthcare plan currently on the table?

I don't know. I haven't seen these ideas anywhere. I can't actually explain why something sucks or is a good idea when noone wants to tell me what it is.

Right. This is an invitation to provide a better alternative to the current plan. I don't really love the plan as is, I just think it's the best thing anyone has offered at the moment. So if you got a better plan that offers universal coverage I'm all ears.

Problem - Poor people don't have insurance.
Solution - Government provides health insurance (including preventative care) for poor people

Problem - Lower middle class, middle class get screwed when they have accidents/illnesses because insurance won't pay.
Solution - Government regulates when insurance companies have to pay.

Problem - Rising healthcare costs because of litigation.
Solution - Cap damages for medical malpractice law suits and/or impose stiff penalties on attorneys/plaintiffs bring frivolous suits.

This is "my" plan.