ObamaCare - "Give up your phone to get it!!!"

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Re: ObamaCare: Reactions

Postby PLAYER57832 on Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:52 am

Night Strike wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:He further convinced me that my vote for Jill Stein will be the right one.


Yeah.. as long as you want Romney to be president.


How does it feel to be a sellout and a sucker? You're a bought and paid for shill, you're being played, and you're happy about it.


She's not bought and paid for.....unless you're talking about the governmental handouts she demands the rest of us pay to her.
What handouts?
Chances are you contribute far less to this country than my family has.... going back a few generations, even. (and you are quite welcome to challenge me on that one!)
Night Strike wrote:She's a liberal democrat who wants the government to have as much power as possible. Her vote for Obama is expected, even though it's the wrong direction for this country and Constitutional freedoms.

When will you stop pretending that there are only 2 views in life... those who oppose you and those who don't.
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Re: ObamaCare: Reactions

Postby Woodruff on Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:08 am

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:He further convinced me that my vote for Jill Stein will be the right one.


Yeah.. as long as you want Romney to be president.


How does it feel to be a sellout and a sucker? You're a bought and paid for shill, you're being played, and you're happy about it.


She's not bought and paid for.....unless you're talking about the governmental handouts she demands the rest of us pay to her.
What handouts?
Chances are you contribute far less to this country than my family has.... going back a few generations, even. (and you are quite welcome to challenge me on that one!)
Night Strike wrote:She's a liberal democrat who wants the government to have as much power as possible. Her vote for Obama is expected, even though it's the wrong direction for this country and Constitutional freedoms.

When will you stop pretending that there are only 2 views in life... those who oppose you and those who don't.


You mean like "Romney or Obama"?
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Re: ObamaCare: Reactions

Postby Woodruff on Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:10 am

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:How does it feel to be a sellout and a sucker? You're a bought and paid for shill, you're being played, and you're happy about it.

Honestly, I would say that applies much more to you in this case than I.


Well that's an interesting claim. Perhaps you can point out exactly how that is true?

PLAYER57832 wrote:Until our system changes...


You have it in your power to help it change, but are instead CHOOSING the status quo. You claim you want the system to change, but your actions speak louder than your words.

PLAYER57832 wrote:The green party in the US so far is a joke. Its had over 20 years to make ground and has yet to do more than shout.


With friends like you, who needs enemies?
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Re: ObamaCare: Reactions

Postby PLAYER57832 on Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:03 pm

Woodruff wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
When will you stop pretending that there are only 2 views in life... those who oppose you and those who don't.


You mean like "Romney or Obama"?

In the US election, that IS the case. Life has a few more options.
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Re: ObamaCare: Reactions

Postby PLAYER57832 on Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:08 pm

Woodruff wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:How does it feel to be a sellout and a sucker? You're a bought and paid for shill, you're being played, and you're happy about it.

Honestly, I would say that applies much more to you in this case than I.


Well that's an interesting claim. Perhaps you can point out exactly how that is true?

Well if Romney wins by a slim margin, then we can thank those who voted for third parties, particularly parties like the Green party with members that otherwise would vote Obama.

There are other reasons, but this is far enough off topic.

Woodruff wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:Until our system changes...


You have it in your power to help it change, but are instead CHOOSING the status quo. You claim you want the system to change, but your actions speak louder than your words.

Hmm... you mean my actions such as teaching my kids, those around me to care about the world around, consider choices and impacts carefully... or do you mean a secret vote in a poll that no one will even acknowledge, unless its for one of the top 2 condidates.

Woodruff wrote:[
PLAYER57832 wrote:The green party in the US so far is a joke. Its had over 20 years to make ground and has yet to do more than shout.


With friends like you, who needs enemies?

That could very much be said of the entire green party. They talk a good talk, but have never been effective. The reason is because they take such an extreme position and have a "take it all or leave it" attitude. They deny compromise and celebrate that as if it were some kind of gift or benefit.

The result is more and more marginalization, less and less voice, not more. They actually had chances to gain power in parts of CA, elsewhere... and utterly blew it. Yet, instead of changing, they keep on.
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Re: ObamaCare: Reactions

Postby Night Strike on Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:10 pm

Johnson will take more votes away from Romney than Stein will take away from Obama.
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Re: ObamaCare: Reactions

Postby Woodruff on Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:57 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
When will you stop pretending that there are only 2 views in life... those who oppose you and those who don't.


You mean like "Romney or Obama"?

In the US election, that IS the case. Life has a few more options.


There are plenty of options. You're self-limiting.
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Re: ObamaCare: Reactions

Postby Woodruff on Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:00 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:How does it feel to be a sellout and a sucker? You're a bought and paid for shill, you're being played, and you're happy about it.


Honestly, I would say that applies much more to you in this case than I.


Well that's an interesting claim. Perhaps you can point out exactly how that is true?

Well if Romney wins by a slim margin, then we can thank those who voted for third parties, particularly parties like the Green party with members that otherwise would vote Obama.


How does that make me a sellout or a shill?

PLAYER57832 wrote:There are other reasons, but this is far enough off topic.


Yeah, I didn't think you could back it up either.

PLAYER57832 wrote:That could very much be said of the entire green party. They talk a good talk, but have never been effective. The reason is because they take such an extreme position and have a "take it all or leave it" attitude. They deny compromise and celebrate that as if it were some kind of gift or benefit.

The result is more and more marginalization, less and less voice, not more. They actually had chances to gain power in parts of CA, elsewhere... and utterly blew it. Yet, instead of changing, they keep on.


You keep saying things like this, and they keep being false. The Green Party is growing, not getting smaller.

It really is too bad that they stick to their principles though. I can see why someone who would vote for Obama wouldn't care for that too much.
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Re: ObamaCare: Reactions

Postby PLAYER57832 on Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:07 am

Woodruff wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:How does it feel to be a sellout and a sucker? You're a bought and paid for shill, you're being played, and you're happy about it.


Honestly, I would say that applies much more to you in this case than I.


Well that's an interesting claim. Perhaps you can point out exactly how that is true?

Well if Romney wins by a slim margin, then we can thank those who voted for third parties, particularly parties like the Green party with members that otherwise would vote Obama.


How does that make me a sellout or a shill?
It makes you ineffective. The sell out bit is allowing Romney to win.

Woodruff wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:There are other reasons, but this is far enough off topic.


Yeah, I didn't think you could back it up either.
Your jobs are and have been about supporting the status quo. I am not attacking the military, but to claim that youare opposing the system, and that I am a sell out because I am not voting for an ineffectual nominee, while your entire occupation is about supporting the system is, well hypocritical.

I believe in working within the system and changing it that way.

Woodruff wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:That could very much be said of the entire green party. They talk a good talk, but have never been effective. The reason is because they take such an extreme position and have a "take it all or leave it" attitude. They deny compromise and celebrate that as if it were some kind of gift or benefit.

The result is more and more marginalization, less and less voice, not more. They actually had chances to gain power in parts of CA, elsewhere... and utterly blew it. Yet, instead of changing, they keep on.


You keep saying things like this, and they keep being false. The Green Party is growing, not getting smaller.
It is not growing the way it could, by any means. And what I said above is very true. They did not have much of a push to claim Northern CA in the 80's and early 90's... but they failed.

Woodruff wrote:It really is too bad that they stick to their principles though. I can see why someone who would vote for Obama wouldn't care for that too much.

Principles? Failure to compromise, to listen to others, to actually talk to others and hear what they are saying is not what I call "principles".

Also, while the green party is closer to what I would like to see, it is not fully what I agree with. I don't agree on their stance on the military, for example... though I do think we should have more debate on the topics they bring up.
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Re: ObamaCare: Reactions

Postby Woodruff on Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:05 pm

Night Strike wrote:Johnson will take more votes away from Romney than Stein will take away from Obama.


I think I agree with this.
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Re: ObamaCare: Reactions

Postby Woodruff on Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:13 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:How does it feel to be a sellout and a sucker? You're a bought and paid for shill, you're being played, and you're happy about it.


Honestly, I would say that applies much more to you in this case than I.


Well that's an interesting claim. Perhaps you can point out exactly how that is true?

Well if Romney wins by a slim margin, then we can thank those who voted for third parties, particularly parties like the Green party with members that otherwise would vote Obama.


How does that make me a sellout or a shill?
It makes you ineffective. The sell out bit is allowing Romney to win.


That doesn't even make basic sense. Do you have no concept of what the term "sellout" means? Because it has nothing to do with a secondary coincidental result, that's for sure.

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:There are other reasons, but this is far enough off topic.


Yeah, I didn't think you could back it up either.


Your jobs are and have been about supporting the status quo. I am not attacking the military, but to claim that youare opposing the system, and that I am a sell out because I am not voting for an ineffectual nominee, while your entire occupation is about supporting the system is, well hypocritical.

I believe in working within the system and changing it that way.


Getting the Federal money for the Green Party is literally working within the system. It's certainly more of an aspect of working for change than a vote for Obama is. We've seen how much Obama is willing to change the system...he's not.

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:That could very much be said of the entire green party. They talk a good talk, but have never been effective. The reason is because they take such an extreme position and have a "take it all or leave it" attitude. They deny compromise and celebrate that as if it were some kind of gift or benefit.

The result is more and more marginalization, less and less voice, not more. They actually had chances to gain power in parts of CA, elsewhere... and utterly blew it. Yet, instead of changing, they keep on.


You keep saying things like this, and they keep being false. The Green Party is growing, not getting smaller.


It is not growing the way it could, by any means. And what I said above is very true.


No, what you said is not true. It very much IS growing, thanks in large part to the utter failure of the man you are going to be voting for again. The Green Party (and also the Libertarian Party) has a great opportunity in this election year, and the primary thing holding us back is individuals like yourself who vote for your fears instead of your values.

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:It really is too bad that they stick to their principles though. I can see why someone who would vote for Obama wouldn't care for that too much.


Principles? Failure to compromise, to listen to others, to actually talk to others and hear what they are saying is not what I call "principles".


You do realize that it's possible to hear a position with an open mind and still disagree with it, right? That's called sticking to your principles. It's not called voting for someone so that you'll get a handout.

PLAYER57832 wrote:Also, while the green party is closer to what I would like to see, it is not fully what I agree with. I don't agree on their stance on the military, for example... though I do think we should have more debate on the topics they bring up.


For me, that's the primary attraction of both the Green Party and the Libertarian Party...more discourse. This two-party dichotomy-but-not-a-dichotomy we've got going on is frankly just stupid. That I happen to agree with both of them a little more than either of the other two "normal" parties is just icing on the cake.
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Re: ObamaCare: Reactions

Postby PLAYER57832 on Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:30 pm

moved my response, here:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=179904
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Re: ObamaCare: Reactions

Postby Woodruff on Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:11 pm

WILLIAMS5232 wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Controlling for alcohol and tobacco use, 45,000 people die each year from lack of Insurance tobacco use.
"The uninsured are 40 percent more likely to die prematurely. "

what is prematurely? suffocating with or without the oxygen bottle? my mom's dad died ten years after he quit smoking, probably just as excruciating a death as those that were not insured.

Juan_Bottom wrote:But that's not the whole story. That doesn't address the strain on our economy or our hospitals created by people without insurance.
There are currently more than 50,000 Americans who don't have insurance and when they get sick, John Q. taxpayer bails them out. This new system is attempting to end the freeloading that you hate so much, because they will be coerced to getgiven insurance.


so what really changes here. let's assume that insurance costs for me does go up until they go down. we'll both have to wait and see. except of course in your fantasy land where money is no object. how often is it that prices usually tend to go up and not down? don't that usually happen with everything. because people who are in the business to make money, strive to make it right?

Juan_Bottom wrote:62% of all bankruptcies in 2007 were tied to medical expenses.


can't we just say, that bankruptcy comes from owing more than you have, or can make?
so these people that overextended on houses they couldn't afford full of overpriced furniture and luxery cars in the driveway, really didn't need the things they thought were so important at the time.
if you file bankruptcy, i'm going to have to think you are in debt. meaning you owe money that you don't have. if you're modest house of say 50,000 is paid for, instead of owing 400,000 bucks on a nice luxery one. then you're bank may tend to loan you a little more. especially when they see you take care fo things.... but when you're 200,000 dollar medical bill nearly buckles you and you see you'll never get that house paid for.. isn't it much easier to lean on the govt and just let everyone else flip the bill. heck, you can always start over.

Juan_Bottom wrote:By having everyone covered by health insurance, the cost will go down because the risk to hospitals and the government will go down. Bills will be paid, so they wont have to charge extra for services to cover the losses that they take when people have to file for bankruptcy or can't pay because they have no insurance.
And once again, it was going to be 30% of our GNP by 2030. We've got to do something to stop all of this.

And at any rate, you can still choose to not have insurance. But you have to pay the tax.


do you think that doctors and insurance companies are going to lose money. when doctors start to make less they will charge more for their fees, or our medical system will go down the drain by not having quality doctors because the govt will try to manipulate the amount the doctors are allowed to charge, because of course as we can see. the govt is in bed with the insurance companies. or as the doctors charge higher fees, the insurance companies will do the same. because we know they're not going to make less money. and now the doctors are in bed with the govt. no matter what, prices will go up. and it's because we ( the majority of america ) think the govt is the awnser to all our problems.

if you took insurance completely out of the equation, there would be no way that health care would cost so much. because only the elite 1% that you despise could afford it.

insurance makes money off of knowing you feel insecure about your future. but they also know that most likely you will not get sick. let's say 1 out of every 10 people cost them 1000 dollars a month in hospital costs. well damn. this is easy. let's charge all ten 200 dollars apiece and then we'll give 100 to the doctors and we'll keep 100 for ourself.
well now the doctors say... hey now! where doing all the work here... if you're going to do it like that, then i want a little more. this goes back and forth until now you are forced to pay insurance because that's all you can afford.
can't you see this is a racket. all i can see now, is this is fixing to get out of control because they now have the power backed by the govt to slowly increase rates that may not be noticable in the short term, but i would bet my health insurance now. that i had before obamacare, that there will be a much more rapid increase in insurance premiums in the next 10 years that there were in the last 10. or any other ten you'd like to use.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/06/05/earlyshow/health/main5064981.shtml
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Re: ObamaCare: Reactions

Postby WILLIAMS5232 on Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:13 pm

i sure hope Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius is right woodruffster,

until then, i'm betting on things will be worse before they are good. we'll just have to wait and see.

and i'll say again, i think the bankruptcies that they are trying to claim that come from medical expenses, are really people overextending on houses and cars and i-phones and nice furniture only to be bombarded by an untimely illness. i doubt that someone debt free is bankrupting over a medical cost alone. or at least the numbers are far different than this most likely rigged study is trying to portray.
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Re: ObamaCare: Reactions

Postby Woodruff on Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:02 pm

WILLIAMS5232 wrote:i sure hope Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius is right woodruffster,

until then, i'm betting on things will be worse before they are good. we'll just have to wait and see.

and i'll say again, i think the bankruptcies that they are trying to claim that come from medical expenses, are really people overextending on houses and cars and i-phones and nice furniture only to be bombarded by an untimely illness. i doubt that someone debt free is bankrupting over a medical cost alone. or at least the numbers are far different than this most likely rigged study is trying to portray.


Rigged study? Good Lord man, they clearly say the numbers simply represent "was a factor", not that it was SOLELY the factor. I don't know how you could possibly conclude that it's a rigged study, to be honest.
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