ObamaCare - "Give up your phone to get it!!!"

\\OFF-TOPIC// conversations about everything that has nothing to do with Conquer Club.

Moderators: Global Moderators, Discussions Team

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Re: Liberty VS ObamaCare: Back to Supreme Court

Postby jj3044 on Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:16 pm

WILLIAMS5232 wrote:this is bunk. your telling me i must go to the doctor to recieve a 30 percent cut to go to the doctor. i've not been to the doctor but once in the past 17 years. and he did nothing for me then but tell me i don't need a doctor.

You may have been healthy then, but there are many "silent" diseases out there that you SHOULD be checked out periodically, even if you feel fine. These silent killers typically are treated easily if caught early, but are very expensive and destroy your quality of life if caught late. 17 years is way too long to go without a checkup, any doctor would tell you that. You are either exaggerating, or the doctor you went to got his license inside of a cereal box.
i have insurance with my company. if it were not for that, i wouldn't have insurance ( until the ACA ). i'm not interested in living in a society that feels they know whats best for me. in order for you to get what you want, you are expecting me to get what i don't want. and i don't like that.

medical care will never be free. as much as everyone wishes it would be. for everyone who doesn't pay for it there is another person that is. a 30 percent cut in cost is no better than paying 70 percent of something i don't want/need.

tell me, what's going to happen if i quit my job, pull out my 401k, by some property, build a house with a sawmill and work 3 months out of the year making about 12000 dollars per year? will i need to purchase healthcare, or will i be covered under the ACA for free? ( this is a serious question )

If you are only making 12k a year, your insurance would be subsidized, and possibly free (I don't know enough about the specific thresholds to definitively say).

You are saying that insurance is forced upon you. Well, yes, it is. Should you have a right to refuse? Maybe, and I'm not arguing that. However, there are factors in play here that make a mandate (or socialized healthcare) needed. See, you can say "I don't want to purchase insurance, I don't need no doctor!", and live a happy life... until you come down with a serious ailment that can only be treated with modern medicine. At that point you can say "well I didn't buy insurance, so I guess I'm not getting the service done, and I'm going to die prematurely!". If that was the case, then the free market principle would work. However, this doesn't happen.

What DOES happen, is that you say "well, if I go to the hospital, they WILL treat me, because they have to. Man I love that Hippocratic Oath!". You get the service done, and because you only make 12k a year, they can't collect anything from you. Guess what? Then, everyone pays for YOUR service! Pretty good gig.

Imagine if you went into Sears and said "I can't afford a TV, but because I want one, you are going to give it to me and the taxpayers are going to foot the bill!". I don't think you would get the TV...
Image
User avatar
Colonel jj3044
 
Posts: 499
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:22 pm
Medals: 71
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (1)
General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (23)

Re: Liberty VS ObamaCare: Back to Supreme Court

Postby PLAYER57832 on Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:14 pm

WILLIAMS5232 wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
WILLIAMS5232 wrote:This.......... consequences.


do you think the adversisers of these products have any culpability?


let me look up the word culpability real quick......

ob, ok. so it means "blame". i'm really impressed with your vocabulary. however, your spelling needs work.

to answer your question. no i do not. but that's where our opinions are so different. i tend to put more blame to the consumer than the provider where you would prefer the opposite. it's typical, i think, for a democrat to try to weasel out of any blame that can be placed on a poor decision. surely when you eat sugar alot. and you start to get fat and lose energy you should know that you are practicing unhealthy habits no?

I see, so according to you Democrats are irresponsible... but what about the bill and this debate?

The "problems with the Demoractic party thread is elsewhere"

WILLIAMS5232 wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:Funny, isn’t it.. the problem here is a market and yet, the market is supposed to be the ultimate solution?


the only problem here is making my insurance and her insurance cost the same. now of course it's my mother i'm talking about and i would happily pay for her insurance if she needed it, but she doesn't. so i'm not. how many other people with her attitude am i going to be paying for? when is the nation as a whole going to get healthy so i can start getting this supposed "cheaper insurance in the long run"

Apparently you misunderstand the purpose of insurance. See, you buy fire insurance, not because you think you will lose your home to a fire, but because if you did, you would not otherwise have the money to rebuild it or buy another. According to you, the person who keeps their home is somehow a “loser” because they paid into something from which they don’t benefit. Sorry, but I don’t feel sorry for someone who gets to keep their belongings and house.
Similarly, if you “fail to use” all the insurance coverage available, then you can resent paying or you can be intelligent and be grateful for having your health.

People are notoriously bad about estimating their own medical risks. Sure, plenty of people want to believe they don’t need medical insurance or need far less than they have. That is a big part of why our emergency rooms are overrun and so many people cannot pay medical bills.
Sergeant PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 2324
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4)
Training Achievement (1)

Re: Liberty VS ObamaCare: Back to Supreme Court

Postby PLAYER57832 on Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:18 pm

Night Strike wrote:http://swampland.time.com/2013/02/05/how-much-obamacare-costs-in-one-chart/

By the way, people should note how the chart in the link talks about the penalty for not buying insurance. Remember, if this was a penalty, it would have been ruled unconstitutional. It's a TAX, yet the government still refuses to tell that to the public.

Also player, that link itself (from the CBO) says 27 million more people will have health insurance, which is about 9% of the population, meaning my previous statements about barely increasing coverage for a massive price tag is still accurate.

Whil you are charting that, how about charting the numerous advances that mean much more care is available every year.

Also, how about charting the cost of caring for highly disabled children... you can stick with medical care, but really ought to include lost income, increased medical care for the rest of the familiy (due to stress)?

OR... care for terminal individuals, including seriously ill elderly people.

You are fine denying fully healthy people care, but have no problem with paying millions for those groups.
Sergeant PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 2324
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4)
Training Achievement (1)

Re: Liberty VS ObamaCare: Back to Supreme Court

Postby Night Strike on Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:48 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Night Strike wrote:http://swampland.time.com/2013/02/05/how-much-obamacare-costs-in-one-chart/

By the way, people should note how the chart in the link talks about the penalty for not buying insurance. Remember, if this was a penalty, it would have been ruled unconstitutional. It's a TAX, yet the government still refuses to tell that to the public.

Also player, that link itself (from the CBO) says 27 million more people will have health insurance, which is about 9% of the population, meaning my previous statements about barely increasing coverage for a massive price tag is still accurate.

Whil you are charting that, how about charting the numerous advances that mean much more care is available every year.

Also, how about charting the cost of caring for highly disabled children... you can stick with medical care, but really ought to include lost income, increased medical care for the rest of the familiy (due to stress)?

OR... care for terminal individuals, including seriously ill elderly people.

You are fine denying fully healthy people care, but have no problem with paying millions for those groups.


Actually, I don't think the government should be involved in any person's health care.
Image
User avatar
Lieutenant Night Strike
Tournament Director
Tournament Director
 
Posts: 8622
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:52 pm
Medals: 77
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (10) Tournament Contribution (12) General Contribution (18)

Re: Liberty VS ObamaCare: Back to Supreme Court

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:05 am

CBO projections now not only imply that the subsidized exchange pool will shrink more precipitously, but the average benefit will be rising 5.7% a year at the end of the 10-year window — faster than seen last August.

This combination of fewer beneficiaries and faster benefit growth implies that low-income and older beneficiaries will make up an increasing share of the insurance pool. ObamaCare subsidies rise with age and decline as incomes rise; falling to zero for households who earn more than 400% of the poverty level.

A faster projected rise in average premiums suggests younger, healthier individuals and families will increasingly decide to go without insurance, with many paying a tax penalty.

While the Supreme Court ruling that states needn't expand Medicaid will likely shift millions of currently uninsured to the exchanges, it doesn't explain the projected enrollment decline.

http://news.investors.com/030713-647240 ... -peak.aspx
User avatar
Colonel BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 3585
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: Liberty VS ObamaCare: Back to Supreme Court

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:15 am

Night Strike wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Night Strike wrote:http://swampland.time.com/2013/02/05/how-much-obamacare-costs-in-one-chart/

By the way, people should note how the chart in the link talks about the penalty for not buying insurance. Remember, if this was a penalty, it would have been ruled unconstitutional. It's a TAX, yet the government still refuses to tell that to the public.

Also player, that link itself (from the CBO) says 27 million more people will have health insurance, which is about 9% of the population, meaning my previous statements about barely increasing coverage for a massive price tag is still accurate.

Whil you are charting that, how about charting the numerous advances that mean much more care is available every year.

Also, how about charting the cost of caring for highly disabled children... you can stick with medical care, but really ought to include lost income, increased medical care for the rest of the familiy (due to stress)?

OR... care for terminal individuals, including seriously ill elderly people.

You are fine denying fully healthy people care, but have no problem with paying millions for those groups.


Actually, I don't think the government should be involved in any person's health care.

UNLESS... it is women's care, because according to you, that's not really health care.

AND forget end of life decisions. Only the Roman Catholic Church and their cronies get to make those decisions!
Sergeant PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 2324
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4)
Training Achievement (1)

Re: Liberty VS ObamaCare: Back to Supreme Court

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:23 am

A "stand alone" PS.
I did not write this, It came from another mother

On grieving her son's death
"This is such a hard thing to explain to someone who hasn't been through it, but when Ronan got his terminal diagnosis, that was the day for me that he died. That was the day of his death for me was Jan. 10, 2011. Not to say that I didn't enjoy being with him through his life, but I felt — I think — the full weight of that loss on the day that he was diagnosed, and when he did die I was relieved that he was released from his suffering, and so that grief is different than it was. It's just, it's qualitatively different, and not that it's not still devastating. It was devastating to watch somebody deteriorating, too, and to know that you couldn't stop it and to worry that there would be more suffering and wanting so deeply to spare him that. ... For me that first year was really the worst, because watching him change and all the hopes kind of dashed and sprinting to the end at the beginning was how I grieved."


See, this is the thing, Nightstrike, others. When someone decides to terminate a very ill child before birth, it is not that they don't love the child or even don't appreciate the child. It is that they know this child is, essentially already dead. Whether you believe that or not is a matter of faith and biology. MY assertion is just that no other person, particularly no governmental entity or clergy person talking to non-parishoners has the right to make this decision, only the parents. ONLY they love the child, understand the full situation.

AND... proclaiming that you demand people make this choice the way you want AND ALSO proclaiming that you will cut medical care, won't provide payment... or won't provide payment unless they decide the way you think is best, is the worst kind of hypocrisy.
Sergeant PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 2324
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4)
Training Achievement (1)

Re: Liberty VS ObamaCare: Back to Supreme Court

Postby Metsfanmax on Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:24 am

Night Strike wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Night Strike wrote:http://swampland.time.com/2013/02/05/how-much-obamacare-costs-in-one-chart/

By the way, people should note how the chart in the link talks about the penalty for not buying insurance. Remember, if this was a penalty, it would have been ruled unconstitutional. It's a TAX, yet the government still refuses to tell that to the public.

Also player, that link itself (from the CBO) says 27 million more people will have health insurance, which is about 9% of the population, meaning my previous statements about barely increasing coverage for a massive price tag is still accurate.

Whil you are charting that, how about charting the numerous advances that mean much more care is available every year.

Also, how about charting the cost of caring for highly disabled children... you can stick with medical care, but really ought to include lost income, increased medical care for the rest of the familiy (due to stress)?

OR... care for terminal individuals, including seriously ill elderly people.

You are fine denying fully healthy people care, but have no problem with paying millions for those groups.


Actually, I don't think the government should be involved in any person's health care.


Do you believe we should rescind the rule requiring an emergency room to treat everyone who shows up there while seriously ill?
User avatar
Lieutenant Metsfanmax
Head Thinker
Head Thinker
 
Posts: 3695
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:01 pm
Location: NY
Medals: 40
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (2)
General Contribution (5)

Re: Liberty VS ObamaCare: Back to Supreme Court

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:44 am

Metsfanmax wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Night Strike wrote:http://swampland.time.com/2013/02/05/how-much-obamacare-costs-in-one-chart/

By the way, people should note how the chart in the link talks about the penalty for not buying insurance. Remember, if this was a penalty, it would have been ruled unconstitutional. It's a TAX, yet the government still refuses to tell that to the public.

Also player, that link itself (from the CBO) says 27 million more people will have health insurance, which is about 9% of the population, meaning my previous statements about barely increasing coverage for a massive price tag is still accurate.

Whil you are charting that, how about charting the numerous advances that mean much more care is available every year.

Also, how about charting the cost of caring for highly disabled children... you can stick with medical care, but really ought to include lost income, increased medical care for the rest of the familiy (due to stress)?

OR... care for terminal individuals, including seriously ill elderly people.

You are fine denying fully healthy people care, but have no problem with paying millions for those groups.


Actually, I don't think the government should be involved in any person's health care.


Do you believe we should rescind the rule requiring an emergency room to treat everyone who shows up there ill?

Of course not!

And, the primary reason is because during an emergency there just is not time to fully get into all the details.

Also, note, my point is about choice. Nightstrike wants to declare that he is all about freedom… but has glaring exceptional holes when it comes to women’s health and the elderly.

I know more than most people about this. I have have gone into a LOT of details in other threads at other times, maybe you caught some of it, maybe it predated your appearance, I cannot remember.

Anyway, I believe that both beginning and end of life decisions are as much about faith as biology. I think that the state has an interest in setting the EXTREME bondaries.. I mean, you can’t “knock off” your mother in law (no matter how irritating she is ;) ) or your grandmother just to get their inheritances and I would say aborting a child for gender selection is wrong (but hard to prove). However, when it comes to saying that someone HAS to raise a particular child or even give birth to a particular child…. It goes beyond the bounds of what any outsider should say.

AND, the ultimate truth is that most people don’t really and truly think about end of life issues until they are actually faced with the decisions. When they do, it is under stress, often involves a lot of heartache as various children might have differing ideas, etc. Its much better for all if these things are thought out in advance, preferably if the person themselves makes the decisions. (failing that, the siblings should get together and talk about it).

Part of this very much does involve understanding what happens in various situations. For example, a lot of people just don’t know that dementia is not just a simple problem of “grandma cannot think” any longer. People can sometimes go on for years holding dolls, talking about Santa and the Easter Bunny, etc. However, there comes a point when it also starts to impact the throat muscles and the basic immune system… all those changes tend to happen at the same time. This means that its not just that Grandma thinks she is 5 again, she won’t be able to eat, and her body is far less resistant to many diseases. There is a high incidence of death from pneumonia in dementia patients, partially because when the muscles don’t work, the food can wind up going down the wrong tube, but also because the patient’s body is just far less resistant to illnesses. Understanding that makes a difference in how most people view care and treatment. Unfortunately, what often happens, absent a living will, is that the family that is near to the patient and who see the patient will have talked to the doctors, come to reluctantly understand that, well, their mother is just plain dying and there is really little to be done to lengthen the life, but definitely not to improve their living status. But, then in comes Johnny from across the country and he has not had the time to learn and understand, likely feels guilty for not paying attention earlier, is likely somewhat shocked by the state of his mother (“those damn nursing home people – neglecting my MOM!!!!!!” ). The people who live there know that “mom” is half (or fully) out of her mind, forgets that she ate, forgets that she cannot eat most things, etc… but “Johnny” just comes and hears his mother complain about the staff and the food and when the doctor comes in and says “maybe doing this advanced surgery (or fancy new medicine, etc.) is really not a good idea … HE thinks “oh these idiots just don’t care about mom!”.

Anyway, I see this over and over. There is a guy where I work who can basically eat nothing but hamburgers. They try to offer options, but he needs to eat with his hands, etc…. (not going into the full rundown, of course). There is another who complains that his food is “boring”… well, he is on a cardiac, renal, no sugar diet, AND is a picky eater besides! Both of these people are on “suicide watch”. (there are some other issues, but I don’t want to be too specific). Yet, if family comes in and says “oh grandpa has a tumor… get it treated” and maybe get him some counseling. Is that the “correct” decision? The ideal would be if they had thought this out and made their own decisions before they were too far along to be considered competent.

THOSE are the types of situations I am talking about that need to be discussed. I am not suggesting euthanasia. I can understand why some people might think that is a good option, but it is not one with which I am personally comfortable, BUT… I also don’t think that extraordinary measures should be taken to preserve the life of someone who is in that kind of state, not unless they have very clearly said that is what they want. Legally, though, doctors often have little choice.
Sergeant PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 2324
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4)
Training Achievement (1)

Re: Liberty VS ObamaCare: Back to Supreme Court

Postby Night Strike on Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:50 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:UNLESS... it is women's care, because according to you, that's not really health care.

AND forget end of life decisions. Only the Roman Catholic Church and their cronies get to make those decisions!


The government shouldn't be involved in any of it, nor should individuals be able to force someone else to pay for their medical costs.

Metsfanmax wrote:Do you believe we should rescind the rule requiring an emergency room to treat everyone who shows up there while seriously ill?


Yes. Emergency rooms should be there to stabilize individuals who have a true emergency, not nurse someone back to full health. In no other industry is a person allowed to go in and demand services without paying for them.
Image
User avatar
Lieutenant Night Strike
Tournament Director
Tournament Director
 
Posts: 8622
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:52 pm
Medals: 77
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (10) Tournament Contribution (12) General Contribution (18)

Re: Liberty VS ObamaCare: Back to Supreme Court

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:30 pm

Night Strike wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:UNLESS... it is women's care, because according to you, that's not really health care.

AND forget end of life decisions. Only the Roman Catholic Church and their cronies get to make those decisions!


The government shouldn't be involved in any of it, nor should individuals be able to force someone else to pay for their medical costs.

I am happy to have all insurance removed from employer pay, BUT as long as employers offer insurance then they need to provide the coverage people need , not just the coverage they want.

Also, that bit about "not paying for just your own care" works great.. until you get sick. Since no one can predict that in advance, not even you, requiring insurance is reasonable.
Night Strike wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:Do you believe we should rescind the rule requiring an emergency room to treat everyone who shows up there while seriously ill?


Yes. Emergency rooms should be there to stabilize individuals who have a true emergency, not nurse someone back to full health. In no other industry is a person allowed to go in and demand services without paying for them.

Uh... try again.

You don't pay directly for police, fire, road services, most education or many other public services.

You also don't pay for most research, even very profitable research, particularly in the field of medicine.
Sergeant PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 2324
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4)
Training Achievement (1)

Re: Liberty VS ObamaCare: Back to Supreme Court

Postby Night Strike on Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:01 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:You don't pay directly for police, fire, road services, most education or many other public services.


Because those are directly paid for by our taxes as they're a proper role of government. Most emergency rooms are operated by private health care providers, not the government.

PLAYER57832 wrote:I am happy to have all insurance removed from employer pay, BUT as long as employers offer insurance then they need to provide the coverage people need , not just the coverage they want.


Why? If the employer is the one paying for the coverage, then why does the government get to dictate what they buy? Until Obamacare, if people didn't like the employer coverage, they could opt out of it.
Image
User avatar
Lieutenant Night Strike
Tournament Director
Tournament Director
 
Posts: 8622
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:52 pm
Medals: 77
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (10) Tournament Contribution (12) General Contribution (18)

Re: Liberty VS ObamaCare: Back to Supreme Court

Postby Metsfanmax on Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:23 pm

Night Strike wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:You don't pay directly for police, fire, road services, most education or many other public services.


Because those are directly paid for by our taxes as they're a proper role of government. Most emergency rooms are operated by private health care providers, not the government.


So you agree that emergency rooms should be operated by the government, right? I mean, anything else would be tantamount to saying that you prefer for private providers to be in charge of emergency rooms so that they can turn away sick people.
User avatar
Lieutenant Metsfanmax
Head Thinker
Head Thinker
 
Posts: 3695
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:01 pm
Location: NY
Medals: 40
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (2)
General Contribution (5)

Re: Liberty VS ObamaCare: Back to Supreme Court

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:51 pm

Night Strike wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:You don't pay directly for police, fire, road services, most education or many other public services.


Because those are directly paid for by our taxes as they're a proper role of government. Most emergency rooms are operated by private health care providers, not the government.

No, many are run by nonprofit entities. Some are paid for through taxes. Regardless, they ALL very much are government supported.

Those other things are government provided for reasons similar to why it makes sense to have medical care provided by a true universal system... like in other countries. Everyone benefits from having a functioning system, whether you personally ever interact with them or not.

PLAYER57832 wrote:I am happy to have all insurance removed from employer pay, BUT as long as employers offer insurance then they need to provide the coverage people need , not just the coverage they want.


Why? If the employer is the one paying for the coverage, then why does the government get to dictate what they buy? Until Obamacare, if people didn't like the employer coverage, they could opt out of it.[/quote]

Becuase the owner of insurance is not the employer, it is the employee. Employers just began offering insurance as a way to pay more for less, since they got tax benefits. That the formula has changed doesn't mean employers can suddenly claim they "own" it.


Like I said, I am more than happy to see no employer offer insurance, but as long as they do, they need to do so properly.
Sergeant PLAYER57832
 
Posts: 2324
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Pennsylvania
Medals: 30
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Ratings Achievement (4)
Training Achievement (1)

Re: Liberty VS ObamaCare: Back to Supreme Court

Postby Night Strike on Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:32 pm

So much for health information being confidential.

TAMPA (FOX 13) -

What would you say if your employer told you it needed your height, weight, body fat percent and other personal information for health insurance purposes?

That's what CVS is beginning to do. The company is telling workers who use its health insurance to have a wellness review done or pay up.

CVS says the information will go to a third party administrator of CVS's benefits, not CVS itself.

The idea is to incentivize healthy living. CVS says the idea is nothing new.

"The idea of an employee wellness plan is perfectly legal under the ADA. Courts held up these plans," said Joshua Kersey, a Tampa labor attorney. He says with "Obamacare" looming in 2014, practices like this wellness review are likely to become more common, because a lot of employers are expecting to pay more for their workers' health insurance.

"The more money it's going to save the employer, the more incentive the employer has to affect these types of programs," he said.

In CVS's case, workers not comfortable getting the review done will have to pay a $600 annual penalty.

"It is voluntary because you're welcome to get healthcare through someone else," he said.

In a statement, CVS says it's implemented the program to try and keep employees as healthy as possible, and help them manage their costs.

The company also says it will not be receiving or reviewing any of the personal information.

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/21752353/2013/03/20/cvs-seeks-to-collect-employees-health-information#ixzz2OCUVFWaP
Image
User avatar
Lieutenant Night Strike
Tournament Director
Tournament Director
 
Posts: 8622
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:52 pm
Medals: 77
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3)
Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (10) Tournament Contribution (12) General Contribution (18)

PreviousNext

Return to Whose Forum is It Anyway?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Login