Conquer Club

if you are unable to make a decision or simply cannot, try to pick the answer that best represents your views

Excellent talking point.

Indeed.

It seems that a rather large segment of the population is uniting against him, so would that count as a yes or a no vote?

well, i listened to him very closely in the campaign, and i wrote down every thing he said he would do in my little black book. I am crossing them off as time goes by. I will let you know how many are left in 2012, JUST as I did with Bush

It's unanimous. Although I must say I'm not surprised.

United means everyone, phatscotty himself is a perfect reason why #1 is incorrect.

He may not be uniting the country but he's doing a good job of separating the idiots from the rest.

I think the seperation in the country atm has less to do with Obama and more to do with the opposition. Very hard to judge Obama atm because of how the other side are behaving.

Titanic wrote:I think the seperation in the country atm has less to do with Obama and more to do with the opposition. Very hard to judge Obama atm because of how the other side are behaving.

Let them keep behaving that way.

Not all Republicans are as bad as the fucking morons on TV or at the Tea Bag parties, but there are some.

I personally am enjoying watching the GOP come apart at the seams. Rather amusing, frankly.

As far as Obama uniting the country? Shit, were you around last November? Pretty sure he united everything he needed to when he kicked the f*ck out of McCain at the polls.

angola wrote:Pretty sure he united everything he needed to when he kicked the f*ck out of McCain at the polls.

Are you really? 52.9% to 45.6%? 52.9% is unity?

This poll assumes that unification is a good thing. I'm pretty sure it's not, especially in a representative republic.

thegreekdog wrote:

angola wrote:Pretty sure he united everything he needed to when he kicked the f*ck out of McCain at the polls.

Are you really? 52.9% to 45.6%? 52.9% is unity?

This poll assumes that unification is a good thing. I'm pretty sure it's not, especially in a representative republic.

Unity is surely better then seperation though. Not saying that everyone should have the same political or social views, but I much prefer the political situation in the UK (where the vast majority of people are centrists or there abouts) then the USA (3 groups roughly evenly split across the spectrum).

I think it makes a healthier democracy if there is a general consensus amongst most people about where the country should be heading.

Titanic wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:

angola wrote:Pretty sure he united everything he needed to when he kicked the f*ck out of McCain at the polls.

Are you really? 52.9% to 45.6%? 52.9% is unity?

This poll assumes that unification is a good thing. I'm pretty sure it's not, especially in a representative republic.

Unity is surely better then seperation though. Not saying that everyone should have the same political or social views, but I much prefer the political situation in the UK (where the vast majority of people are centrists or there abouts) then the USA (3 groups roughly evenly split across the spectrum).

I think it makes a healthier democracy if there is a general consensus amongst most people about where the country should be heading.

I agree in part. But unification can also lead to bad things. We've seen it before, we'll see it again.

i like how the yes votes in this poll and other "unnamed" polls come in swaths.....how dishonest

I just changed my vote to a "yes".

Obama has done a stunning job in uniting the opposition and helping us to recognize our core values

GabonX wrote:I just changed my vote to a "yes".

Obama has done a stunning job in uniting the opposition and helping us to recognize our core values

i dont really dispute that statement entirely, but i still question whether or not conservatives can place the elements of the message outside of healthcare and perhaps more general libertyesque talking points.

In some ways though i expect republicans to be successful in the near future, I am not sure how if they dont make the entire campaign about obama failures what exactly they still have to stand on. Granted for some that may be enough to get the job done, but i dont necessarily see point A's connection to point B, even though perhaps it will come around when it needs to.

got tonkaed wrote:

GabonX wrote:I just changed my vote to a "yes".

Obama has done a stunning job in uniting the opposition and helping us to recognize our core values

i dont really dispute that statement entirely, but i still question whether or not conservatives can place the elements of the message outside of healthcare and perhaps more general libertyesque talking points.

In some ways though i expect republicans to be successful in the near future, I am not sure how if they dont make the entire campaign about obama failures what exactly they still have to stand on. Granted for some that may be enough to get the job done, but i dont necessarily see point A's connection to point B, even though perhaps it will come around when it needs to.

I respectfully disagree. For the long term health of the party, the Republicans do need to come up with some unified message. That being said, having success in the next round of elections (and in 2012) can be almost entirely based upon villification of President Obama. We've seen that work out quite well for the Democrats in 2008 when they villified President Bush. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that's a good way to go about one's business, but it worked.

It certainly is possible yes. It seems in some ways the republicans did so poorly because they were running up against a pain train of a lot of animosity and a tide of optimism on the other side. The strategy that made the most sense in that situation was to beat them on the issues, which was something that i dont think people can really argued happened at all. I cant really think of a whole lot of points in which the issues were going the republican party's way during the political season.

While there will be some animosity toward the democrats going forward, it probably does not equate with Bush (though perhaps senate approval ratings disagree with me) though there is certainly cause for optimism given the considerable mobilizing that has occured in the party as of late. But without coherent issues, i think they are still missing a piece. Perhaps its enough, but given some not so large changes, such as the steam coming out of either one of the above, it doesnt push them as far as they must be looking to go.

angola wrote:

Titanic wrote:I think the seperation in the country atm has less to do with Obama and more to do with the opposition. Very hard to judge Obama atm because of how the other side are behaving.

Let them keep behaving that way.

Not all Republicans are as bad as the fucking morons on TV or at the Tea Bag parties, but there are some.

I personally am enjoying watching the GOP come apart at the seams. Rather amusing, frankly.

As far as Obama uniting the country? Shit, were you around last November? Pretty sure he united everything he needed to when he kicked the f*ck out of McCain at the polls.

you think the gop is coming apart? hmm well I dont give a rats ass about what happens to them, but the way I see things, next year the rupublicans are picking up the house of representatives without even earning it. would love a glimpse in your world

I still don't fully agree really, although I see your point. If you look at the poll numbers, you'll see that a lot of moderates swung to President Obama, ostensibly because they were sick of President Bush and the Republicans. I suspect that the rampant spending (which, as of yet, has not helped the economy) will be a rather large issue. In the Philadelphia suburbs, a lot of voters, mostly independent or Republican, when over to the Democrats (whether because they liked President Obama or because they were frustrated with President Bush). I tend to think those people (generally, upper middle class) will swing back to the Republican Party (or drop to the Libertarian side, which is what I did) in upcoming elections. As an example, I highly doubt Senator Spector will win reelection in Pennsylvania.

In any event, the Republicans need a coherent message, one I've been clamoring for - namely fiscal responsibility. The party needs to ignore the social issues (abortion, gay marriage) and focus on the fiscal policies. I would also like to see the Republicans do something truly radical, like embrace an open borders immigration policy.

thegreekdog wrote:I still don't fully agree really, although I see your point. If you look at the poll numbers, you'll see that a lot of moderates swung to President Obama, ostensibly because they were sick of President Bush and the Republicans. I suspect that the rampant spending (which, as of yet, has not helped the economy) will be a rather large issue. In the Philadelphia suburbs, a lot of voters, mostly independent or Republican, when over to the Democrats (whether because they liked President Obama or because they were frustrated with President Bush). I tend to think those people (generally, upper middle class) will swing back to the Republican Party (or drop to the Libertarian side, which is what I did) in upcoming elections. As an example, I highly doubt Senator Spector will win reelection in Pennsylvania.

In any event, the Republicans need a coherent message, one I've been clamoring for - namely fiscal responsibility. The party needs to ignore the social issues (abortion, gay marriage) and focus on the fiscal policies. I would also like to see the Republicans do something truly radical, like embrace an open borders immigration policy.

ironically if healthcare were an still unresolved issue, embracing an open immigration policy would probably murder it for certain, thus allowing them to point out fiscal irresponsibility as a nonviable political option. If they could swing in some type of tax cut for those who hired the presumably semi-legal workers, they would probably get some serious work done in the southwest (assuming they arent already of course, my political map is somewhere else)

On most social issues (other than immigration), Hispanics tend to be conservative (abortion, gay marriage), so I think an open doors policy could help the Republicans.

That being said (tangent coming...), I've known a few legal Hispanic immigrants... they dislike illegal immigrants more than the typical white, southern, God-fearing Republican. So, it might not be as much a hot button issue as one might think. I don't know, I haven't seen a poll like that before.

thegreekdog wrote:On most social issues (other than immigration), Hispanics tend to be conservative (abortion, gay marriage), so I think an open doors policy could help the Republicans.

That being said (tangent coming...), I've known a few legal Hispanic immigrants... they dislike illegal immigrants more than the typical white, southern, God-fearing Republican. So, it might not be as much a hot button issue as one might think. I don't know, I haven't seen a poll like that before.

That sort of mentality is not without precedent, i believe. It would not surprise me at all really if there werent pockets or even quite large pockets of legal immigrants who would prefer stronger measures taken against illegal immigration.

got tonkaed wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:On most social issues (other than immigration), Hispanics tend to be conservative (abortion, gay marriage), so I think an open doors policy could help the Republicans.

That being said (tangent coming...), I've known a few legal Hispanic immigrants... they dislike illegal immigrants more than the typical white, southern, God-fearing Republican. So, it might not be as much a hot button issue as one might think. I don't know, I haven't seen a poll like that before.

That sort of mentality is not without precedent, i believe. It would not surprise me at all really if there werent pockets or even quite large pockets of legal immigrants who would prefer stronger measures taken against illegal immigration.

I volunteered at a tax clinic for a year, assisting underprivileged taxpayers with IRS issues. One of my clients was a legal immigrant who was getting notices from the IRS and the Social Security Administration. After some digging, I determined that there were 6 other individuals using his social security number, ostensibly illegal immigrants. When I told him, he had a fit.