Large-Team Tournaments & Director Changes

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Re: Large-Team Tournaments & Director Changes

Postby Lindax on Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:29 pm

IcePack, of course you can run your Large-Team Tournament. All you need to do is show us that you are serious about it. You're already running a few tournaments, so you shouldn't be that far away from meeting the requirements.

BTW: Can I ask you what happened to the "Epic Teams" tournament you were supposed to organize together with chapcrap?

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Re: Large-Team Tournaments & Director Changes

Postby patrickaa317 on Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:03 pm

patrickaa317 wrote:12 players on a team.

6 games per round = 6-24 spots for those games. (6 singles games to 6 quads games)


If each player has to play 2 games, that means 24 spots are required to maintain medal possibility if there are 12 players on a team, which would allow no room at all for non-quads games as they only way to maintain this is to have ALL quads games.



EDIT: Realized 12 spots per team a possibility, updated above post.



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Re: Large-Team Tournaments & Director Changes

Postby IcePack on Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:12 pm

Lindax wrote:IcePack, of course you can run your Large-Team Tournament. All you need to do is show us that you are serious about it. You're already running a few tournaments, so you shouldn't be that far away from meeting the requirements.

BTW: Can I ask you what happened to the "Epic Teams" tournament you were supposed to organize together with chapcrap?

Lx


I'm more than willing to run it if I'm allowed, thank u for saying I can. Does that mean even if it doesn't meet every new requirement?

I have two ongoing tournaments, a 1 vs 1 clan war vs legion, and a tournament league in sign ups. It'll still be awhile before these "complete" seeing as they aren't tiny tournaments. I have no "team tournaments" as of yet. The 3 completed & 1 team means I'll still be months away from meeting even the capability to host it. I am serious about it, I've been here less then a year and I've been involved with a clan, tournaments, very active in forums, tournaments, and logged 1600 completed games. I'm here for the long haul. I've also done a "unofficial" tournament within KOA bcuz TD's said it couldn't be made a tournament due to 100% invites, and so they've all been private games.

I've updated my tournaments regularly and keep them moving. The tournament with chapcrap was always his tournament, I said I would help out. Unfortunately I had some personal problems, a unexpected move, and a surgery to deal with right when it was to start up. My job was to create games, which I could hav e done but I'd had delayed his start a bit so I stepped aside so that his tournament wouldnt be slowed down due to my issues. After those were sorted out I had my tourney nearly ready and healed the first week of surgery when I was posting it, but the new moratorium on large team games came into play.

I didn't like it, but it was suggested I should run some tournaments in the meantime as likely there would be a requirement for it. So even tho I only had interest in running one, I've started 3 others to show I was serious about it. It wasn't mentioned one would need to be a team tournament or I'd have started that so I would be "on the way" to started the only one I still really wanting to run.

Ive run similar ones at gaming conventions and other sites, I adjusted the set up to "fit" CC tournament games and set up. But I doubt I can fit it into the 12 man requirement, and it'll still be months away before I complete the 3 required tournaments.

The whole idea of my large team tournament was I couldn't do ANYTHING for two months after my surgery (couldn't walk) so id have all day and night in bed to run it. Now, ive healed up and am back to work so instead of giving 100% to it it'll actually slow the tournament down as summer is the busiest time of work for me. (summer). I could have gotten thru the first several rounds which would be the heaviest part of the work load, so that by summer it'd be less for me to handle. See, I HAD put a lot of thought into t and making sure it'd be successful.

Anyway, do whatever you like. I'll give my opinion and you can allow me or not, I'm just upset I wasted so much time preparing something for CC community that ultimately wasnt even able to get off the ground, and even if it is run t won't go as smoothly as it would have when I actually wanted to run it 2 months ago, and the stop to those tournaments actually preventing the very thing it was intended to ensure. Well run tournaments from people who would be actively pursuing it's timely completion.

If you have any other question about chaps tournament feel free to PM me, I won't give personal details here.

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Re: Large-Team Tournaments & Director Changes

Postby Lindax on Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:56 pm

IcePack wrote:
Lindax wrote:IcePack, of course you can run your Large-Team Tournament. All you need to do is show us that you are serious about it. You're already running a few tournaments, so you shouldn't be that far away from meeting the requirements.

BTW: Can I ask you what happened to the "Epic Teams" tournament you were supposed to organize together with chapcrap?

Lx


IcePack wrote:I'm more than willing to run it if I'm allowed, thank u for saying I can. Does that mean even if it doesn't meet every new requirement?

No, you'll have to meet every new requirement.


IcePack wrote:I have two ongoing tournaments, a 1 vs 1 clan war vs legion, and a tournament league in sign ups. It'll still be awhile before these "complete" seeing as they aren't tiny tournaments. I have no "team tournaments" as of yet. The 3 completed & 1 team means I'll still be months away from meeting even the capability to host it. I am serious about it, I've been here less then a year and I've been involved with a clan, tournaments, very active in forums, tournaments, and logged 1600 completed games. I'm here for the long haul. I've also done a "unofficial" tournament within KOA bcuz TD's said it couldn't be made a tournament due to 100% invites, and so they've all been private games.

If you're here for the long haul, why the hurry?


IcePack wrote:I've updated my tournaments regularly and keep them moving. The tournament with chapcrap was always his tournament, I said I would help out. Unfortunately I had some personal problems, a unexpected move, and a surgery to deal with right when it was to start up. My job was to create games, which I could hav e done but I'd had delayed his start a bit so I stepped aside so that his tournament wouldnt be slowed down due to my issues. After those were sorted out I had my tourney nearly ready and healed the first week of surgery when I was posting it, but the new moratorium on large team games came into play.

Sorry, but we can't really do anything about the "bad timing".


IcePack wrote:I didn't like it, but it was suggested I should run some tournaments in the meantime as likely there would be a requirement for it. So even tho I only had interest in running one, I've started 3 others to show I was serious about it. It wasn't mentioned one would need to be a team tournament or I'd have started that so I would be "on the way" to started the only one I still really wanting to run.

We didn't know the knew requirements at the time either. However, if you're here for the long haul it shouldn't matter that much.


IcePack wrote:Ive run similar ones at gaming conventions and other sites, I adjusted the set up to "fit" CC tournament games and set up. But I doubt I can fit it into the 12 man requirement, and it'll still be months away before I complete the 3 required tournaments.

Again, if you're here for the long haul it shouldn't matter. And that's exactly what we want to see, TOs being here for the long haul.


IcePack wrote:The whole idea of my large team tournament was I couldn't do ANYTHING for two months after my surgery (couldn't walk) so id have all day and night in bed to run it. Now, ive healed up and am back to work so instead of giving 100% to it it'll actually slow the tournament down as summer is the busiest time of work for me. (summer). I could have gotten thru the first several rounds which would be the heaviest part of the work load, so that by summer it'd be less for me to handle. See, I HAD put a lot of thought into t and making sure it'd be successful.

Trying to set up and run a Large-Team Tournament knowing you have 2 months with plenty of time on your hands is a bad idea. Usually the problems with this kind of tournaments start showing up after the first few months. You could have easily organized a bunch of short tournaments to get you through those two months.


IcePack wrote:Anyway, do whatever you like. I'll give my opinion and you can allow me or not, I'm just upset I wasted so much time preparing something for CC community that ultimately wasnt even able to get off the ground, and even if it is run t won't go as smoothly as it would have when I actually wanted to run it 2 months ago, and the stop to those tournaments actually preventing the very thing it was intended to ensure. Well run tournaments from people who would be actively pursuing it's timely completion.

This is not the first time you say "do whatever you like" or "I don't care". To me that doesn't seem like a TO who is convinced that he wants to really run a Large-Team Tournament.


IcePack wrote:If you have any other question about chaps tournament feel free to PM me, I won't give personal details here.

Thank you, but you more or less proved the point of our new policy already.


On a side note: I know I can sound arrogant and condescending sometimes, however, that is not my intention. What I'm trying to point out with my answers to you is that many of the points you bring up are exactly why we put this knew policy in place.

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Re: Large-Team Tournaments & Director Changes

Postby Lindax on Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:00 pm

patrickaa317 wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:12 players on a team.

6 games per round = 6-24 spots for those games. (6 singles games to 6 quads games)


If each player has to play 2 games, that means 24 spots are required to maintain medal possibility if there are 12 players on a team, which would allow no room at all for non-quads games as they only way to maintain this is to have ALL quads games.



EDIT: Realized 12 spots per team a possibility, updated above post.



bump. Looking for a response from a TD.


I'll give you a response if you give me a question.

Anyway, you can have any number of games per round and for a Large-Team Tournament 6 games per round doesn't sound like much. That said, even with 6 games per round all of the players could theoretically get a medal since you only need to play in 50% of the rounds.

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Re: Large-Team Tournaments & Director Changes

Postby IcePack on Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:09 pm

Well then again, the tournament won't meet wert requirement so clearly I cant run it as you suggested.
I never said I was in a hurry, I said it was annoying bcuz I had put all this work into it to avoid exactly what ur trying to avoid, and got screwed.
I did set up tournaments thru the 2 month break, that's already been brought up. The point was there was actually only one that I desired to run. Although with a lot of work done in the front side of things, I disagree there was much of a chance of it falling apart in a well run tournament.
Your kidding me right? Me saying I don't care doesn't I don't want to run my tournament, clearly I do. I've been trying to be allowed when you posted the break and the new policy! I'd have just given up if I "didn't care" about that. I don't care whether you do or not because you've already wasted my time, and I don't think you care about the time I've wasted trying to put on a CC tournament that was a lot of work. And therefore, as you've already so eloquently stated, won't budge on the policy and makes it unrunnavle anyway.

What you've done is confirmed my fear and what I voiced when the break was put in place, more than likely my tournament wouldn't e able to be run. And you've confirmed it with everything you've said. I don't see how what you've said or my points have "proved" anything about the new policy. But that's irrelevant and personal opinion.

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Re: Large-Team Tournaments & Director Changes

Postby Lindax on Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:16 pm

IcePack wrote:and I don't think you care about the time I've wasted trying to put on a CC tournament that was a lot of work.

IcePack


This is where you are wrong IcePack. Do you really think that if I didn't care that I would spend several hours a day trying to make the tournament part of CC a better place for all of us?

I'm sorry for you that the timing of your tournament and us putting a new policy in place kind of screwed your plans, but don't ever tell me that I don't care.

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Re: Large-Team Tournaments & Director Changes

Postby IcePack on Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:22 pm

Ok, you may care - but you won't do anything about it. Policy is policy, duly noted.

I won't run the tournament, got the msg loud & clear.
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Re: Large-Team Tournaments & Director Changes

Postby patrickaa317 on Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:25 pm

Lindax wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:12 players on a team.

6 games per round = 6-24 spots for those games. (6 singles games to 6 quads games)


If each player has to play 2 games, that means 24 spots are required to maintain medal possibility if there are 12 players on a team, which would allow no room at all for non-quads games as they only way to maintain this is to have ALL quads games.



EDIT: Realized 12 spots per team a possibility, updated above post.



bump. Looking for a response from a TD.


I'll give you a response if you give me a question.

Anyway, you can have any number of games per round and for a Large-Team Tournament 6 games per round doesn't sound like much. That said, even with 6 games per round all of the players could theoretically get a medal since you only need to play in 50% of the rounds.

Lx



According to the original post:

Night Strike wrote:4.- To be eligible for a Tournament Achievement Medal a member of the winning team must:

  • Have played at least one-third (33%) of the tournament games he/she could have played.
      i.e. If a player could play in a max of 6 games per round, then they need to average at least 2 games per round over the course of the tournament.
  • Have participated in at least half (50%) of all rounds or phases of the tournament.
  • Have won 1 game in the tournament.
    Note: This rule is in addition to the existing rules about Tournament Achievement Medals.


You have to play in 1/3 of the games you could play in to be eligible for a medal. With 12 players per team, the only way all players can qualify is if you all play only Quads games and every player is involved in an exact equal number of them. If you have 12 players per team, and there is one game that involves Triples, then at the very most only 11 players will be eligible for a medal. It is impossible for the 12th player to be able to meet the 1/3 minimum requirement at that point.

And the number of total games would have to be a multiple of 3 otherwise at least one player still wouldn't qualify. 100 games = 400 spots; each player has to play in 33.3 games to qualify. Since you can't play .3 of a game, you have to play 34 games to meet the minimum requirement. Players ABCD play games 1-34, Players EFGH play games 35-68, Players IJKL play games 69-100. Players IJKL only played 32 games and thus do not qualify for a team medal.

The math is the same whether it's 6 games per round or 600 games per round. And even though you only have to participate in half of the rounds, you still have to average 1/3 over the course of the tournament.

I understand the need for new requirements for Large Team tourneys but with this math it makes things tough to organize a tourney where all 12 players could all receive a medal.

Is that really what is desired? Where all 12 player Large Team tourneys are restricted to Quads only games? Perhaps there could be "medium sized" team tourneys (5-10 players) and then "large sized" team tourneys (11+ players).

And on a side note:
This new rule will completely eliminate tournaments like Tupence's 2012 Olympics which I have found to be very fun and a very unique layout. You could never have Singles games in large team tournaments unless you also incorporate 1 quads game for every 2 singles games to bring up the average game count; and that would restrict the maximum amount of players to 6 per team to ensure everyone is medal eligible.
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Re: Large-Team Tournaments & Director Changes

Postby IcePack on Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:37 pm

You also couldn't have regular eliminations, as anyone eliminated in the large team event early rounds wouldn't have played half the rounds minimum and therefore not receive a medal for help in the early rounds. Those eliminated in 1st round would be completely impossible, which I'm fine with they wouldn't get 1 win. But the next few rounds would eliminate several players as well, and if ur limited to 5-12 those teams will dry up pretty quickly. Most of the winning team might not even get the medal...
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Re: Large-Team Tournaments & Director Changes

Postby Lindax on Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:39 pm

patrickaa317 wrote:
Lindax wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:12 players on a team.

6 games per round = 6-24 spots for those games. (6 singles games to 6 quads games)


If each player has to play 2 games, that means 24 spots are required to maintain medal possibility if there are 12 players on a team, which would allow no room at all for non-quads games as they only way to maintain this is to have ALL quads games.



EDIT: Realized 12 spots per team a possibility, updated above post.



bump. Looking for a response from a TD.


I'll give you a response if you give me a question.

Anyway, you can have any number of games per round and for a Large-Team Tournament 6 games per round doesn't sound like much. That said, even with 6 games per round all of the players could theoretically get a medal since you only need to play in 50% of the rounds.

Lx



According to the original post:

Night Strike wrote:4.- To be eligible for a Tournament Achievement Medal a member of the winning team must:

  • Have played at least one-third (33%) of the tournament games he/she could have played.
      i.e. If a player could play in a max of 6 games per round, then they need to average at least 2 games per round over the course of the tournament.
  • Have participated in at least half (50%) of all rounds or phases of the tournament.
  • Have won 1 game in the tournament.
    Note: This rule is in addition to the existing rules about Tournament Achievement Medals.


You have to play in 1/3 of the games you could play in to be eligible for a medal. With 12 players per team, the only way all players can qualify is if you all play only Quads games and every player is involved in an exact equal number of them. If you have 12 players per team, and there is one game that involves Triples, then at the very most only 11 players will be eligible for a medal. It is impossible for the 12th player to be able to meet the 1/3 minimum requirement at that point.

And the number of total games would have to be a multiple of 3 otherwise at least one player still wouldn't qualify. 100 games = 400 spots; each player has to play in 33.3 games to qualify. Since you can't play .3 of a game, you have to play 34 games to meet the minimum requirement. Players ABCD play games 1-34, Players EFGH play games 35-68, Players IJKL play games 69-100. Players IJKL only played 32 games and thus do not qualify for a team medal.

The math is the same whether it's 6 games per round or 600 games per round. And even though you only have to participate in half of the rounds, you still have to average 1/3 over the course of the tournament.

I understand the need for new requirements for Large Team tourneys but with this math it makes things tough to organize a tourney where all 12 players could all receive a medal.

Is that really what is desired? Where all 12 player Large Team tourneys are restricted to Quads only games? Perhaps there could be "medium sized" team tourneys (5-10 players) and then "large sized" team tourneys (11+ players).

And on a side note:
This new rule will completely eliminate tournaments like Tupence's 2012 Olympics which I have found to be very fun and a very unique layout. You could never have Singles games in large team tournaments unless you also incorporate 1 quads game for every 2 singles games to bring up the average game count; and that would restrict the maximum amount of players to 6 per team to ensure everyone is medal eligible.


Mmmm.... I'm not a math person, maybe somebody else can jump in here as far as numbers are concerned.

I'm not sure I understand your problem. If you make sure you have enough games per round there should not be a problem with medal eligibility.... And what's the point of a Large-Team Tournament if all players cannot participate in each round?

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Re: Large-Team Tournaments & Director Changes

Postby Lindax on Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:41 pm

IcePack wrote:You also couldn't have regular eliminations, as anyone eliminated in the large team event early rounds wouldn't have played half the rounds minimum and therefore not receive a medal for help in the early rounds. Those eliminated in 1st round would be completely impossible, which I'm fine with they wouldn't get 1 win. But the next few rounds would eliminate several players as well, and if ur limited to 5-12 those teams will dry up pretty quickly. Most of the winning team might not even get the medal...


I'd really like to know what kind of tournament set-up you guys are talking about.

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Re: Large-Team Tournaments & Director Changes

Postby IcePack on Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:48 pm

Lindax wrote:
IcePack wrote:You also couldn't have regular eliminations, as anyone eliminated in the large team event early rounds wouldn't have played half the rounds minimum and therefore not receive a medal for help in the early rounds. Those eliminated in 1st round would be completely impossible, which I'm fine with they wouldn't get 1 win. But the next few rounds would eliminate several players as well, and if ur limited to 5-12 those teams will dry up pretty quickly. Most of the winning team might not even get the medal...


I'd really like to know what kind of tournament set-up you guys are talking about.

Lx


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Re: Large-Team Tournaments & Director Changes

Postby patrickaa317 on Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:51 pm

Lindax wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:
Lindax wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:12 players on a team.

6 games per round = 6-24 spots for those games. (6 singles games to 6 quads games)


If each player has to play 2 games, that means 24 spots are required to maintain medal possibility if there are 12 players on a team, which would allow no room at all for non-quads games as they only way to maintain this is to have ALL quads games.



EDIT: Realized 12 spots per team a possibility, updated above post.



bump. Looking for a response from a TD.


I'll give you a response if you give me a question.

Anyway, you can have any number of games per round and for a Large-Team Tournament 6 games per round doesn't sound like much. That said, even with 6 games per round all of the players could theoretically get a medal since you only need to play in 50% of the rounds.

Lx



According to the original post:

Night Strike wrote:4.- To be eligible for a Tournament Achievement Medal a member of the winning team must:

  • Have played at least one-third (33%) of the tournament games he/she could have played.
      i.e. If a player could play in a max of 6 games per round, then they need to average at least 2 games per round over the course of the tournament.
  • Have participated in at least half (50%) of all rounds or phases of the tournament.
  • Have won 1 game in the tournament.
    Note: This rule is in addition to the existing rules about Tournament Achievement Medals.


You have to play in 1/3 of the games you could play in to be eligible for a medal. With 12 players per team, the only way all players can qualify is if you all play only Quads games and every player is involved in an exact equal number of them. If you have 12 players per team, and there is one game that involves Triples, then at the very most only 11 players will be eligible for a medal. It is impossible for the 12th player to be able to meet the 1/3 minimum requirement at that point.

And the number of total games would have to be a multiple of 3 otherwise at least one player still wouldn't qualify. 100 games = 400 spots; each player has to play in 33.3 games to qualify. Since you can't play .3 of a game, you have to play 34 games to meet the minimum requirement. Players ABCD play games 1-34, Players EFGH play games 35-68, Players IJKL play games 69-100. Players IJKL only played 32 games and thus do not qualify for a team medal.

The math is the same whether it's 6 games per round or 600 games per round. And even though you only have to participate in half of the rounds, you still have to average 1/3 over the course of the tournament.

I understand the need for new requirements for Large Team tourneys but with this math it makes things tough to organize a tourney where all 12 players could all receive a medal.

Is that really what is desired? Where all 12 player Large Team tourneys are restricted to Quads only games? Perhaps there could be "medium sized" team tourneys (5-10 players) and then "large sized" team tourneys (11+ players).

And on a side note:
This new rule will completely eliminate tournaments like Tupence's 2012 Olympics which I have found to be very fun and a very unique layout. You could never have Singles games in large team tournaments unless you also incorporate 1 quads game for every 2 singles games to bring up the average game count; and that would restrict the maximum amount of players to 6 per team to ensure everyone is medal eligible.


Mmmm.... I'm not a math person, maybe somebody else can jump in here as far as numbers are concerned.

I'm not sure I understand your problem. If you make sure you have enough games per round there should not be a problem with medal eligibility.... And what's the point of a Large-Team Tournament if all players cannot participate in each round?

Lx


The number of games per round is irrelevant. It is based on percentage played. The more games you have per round, the more games it takes to earn a medal.

All players would & could participate each round. The issue is that if you have all doubles games for the large team tournament, any more than 7 players per large team and all members can not mathematically qualify for medals. If you have 12 players, you can only use quadruples to ensure medal eligibility.

What's the point of having large team tourneys if you can not utilize a large variety of settings? (i.e. Singles, dubs, trips, & quads)
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Re: Large-Team Tournaments & Director Changes

Postby merch313 on Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:57 pm

Seems ok with me the new updates...Thanks guys...

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