Kiz Mini Ryder Cup Dubs [8/8] FINISHED

by **Chewie1** on Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:32 pm

mint-murray

broke the 12 hour fog rule Game 12841291 whats the punishment?

cc

also broke the 12 hour fog rule Game 12841287

by **notyou2** on Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:36 pm

c c also broke the 12 hour courtesy rule Game 12841307

by **kizkiz** on Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:30 pm

Looked at the 3 games
the second i don't think he did anything you could have seen?
the third he posted his move 17 minutes later
the first game is the only one without action. Did it make a difference tot the game?
If so, i'll adjudicate on it. Possible points lost for that tie

by **kizkiz** on Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:31 pm

All first round games have been sent out now
three teams failed to nominate their away matches, so were allocated at random

by **slytown** on Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:03 pm

crispybits wrote:Excellent, I get to beat slytown 13 times

uh oh

by **Chewie1** on Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:28 am

kizkiz wrote:Looked at the 3 games
the second i don't think he did anything you could have seen?
the third he posted his move 17 minutes later
the first game is the only one without action. Did it make a difference tot the game?
If so, i'll adjudicate on it. Possible points lost for that tie

Personally I think the rule sucks.

I only posted because rules are rules.
If part of the answer is:

"i don't think he did anything you could have seen?" and " Did it make a difference tot the game?"

Whats the point of the rule?

by **kizkiz** on Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:22 am

Chewie1 wrote:
kizkiz wrote:Looked at the 3 games
the second i don't think he did anything you could have seen?
the third he posted his move 17 minutes later
the first game is the only one without action. Did it make a difference tot the game?
If so, i'll adjudicate on it. Possible points lost for that tie

Personally I think the rule sucks.

I only posted because rules are rules.
If part of the answer is:

"i don't think he did anything you could have seen?" and " Did it make a difference tot the game?"

Whats the point of the rule?

the fog rule is a courtesy rule. At the end of the day it sometimes puts you at a slight tactical disadvantage if not adhered to, rather than full on cheating
He claims not to have known what the rule meant and rectified his other mistake.
I'm using a bit of discretion rather than immediately ruling, that's all

by **notyou2** on Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:14 am

kizkiz wrote:
Chewie1 wrote:
kizkiz wrote:Looked at the 3 games
the second i don't think he did anything you could have seen?
the third he posted his move 17 minutes later
the first game is the only one without action. Did it make a difference tot the game?
If so, i'll adjudicate on it. Possible points lost for that tie

Personally I think the rule sucks.

I only posted because rules are rules.
If part of the answer is:

"i don't think he did anything you could have seen?" and " Did it make a difference tot the game?"

Whats the point of the rule?

the fog rule is a courtesy rule. At the end of the day it sometimes puts you at a slight tactical disadvantage if not adhered to, rather than full on cheating
He claims not to have known what the rule meant and rectified his other mistake.
I'm using a bit of discretion rather than immediately ruling, that's all

In other tournaments with the rule, I have seen the rule posted in the tourny title and more than once that has saved me from breaking it.

by **Chewie1** on Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:15 pm

as I said I dont approve of the 12 hour courtesy rule but it should be black or white.

You break the rule you forfeit the game or you don't have the rule.

by **notyou2** on Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:38 am

Game 12841307 Even though c c posted what he did, it still doesn't tell me he had OZ until his next turn and I see he had the bonus.

They broke the rules. It is not a difficult concept to understand.

by **notyou2** on Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:26 am

Broke the rule in this one too. Game 12841259. Took 3 lands, but most importantly, we don't see what those 3 lands touched.

by **notyou2** on Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:31 am

...and another Game 12841258

by **kizkiz** on Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:27 pm

Right, far too many rule breaks. I shall be deducting points

by **Vid_FISO** on Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:51 pm

more good news for kiz :-)

Game 12841473

by **kizkiz** on Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:21 am

Just going through the scores and rule breaks for the chewie/notyou2 vs mint murray/CC
Vanilla score was 12-8 to mint/cc

We have 12 hour rule breaks in
route 66 - he did nothing chewie/notyou could have seen, so no need for 12 hour wait
third crusade - rule breakers lost game anyway
labyrinth - he did nothing chewie/notyou could have seen, so no need for 12 hour wait
classic - match forfeited by mint/cc for breaking 12 hour rule and not clearly rectifying it.

So revised score is 11-9 - winners still mint murray/CC

by **Chewie1** on Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:51 am

kizkiz wrote:Just going through the scores and rule breaks for the chewie/notyou2 vs mint murray/CC
Vanilla score was 12-8 to mint/cc

We have 12 hour rule breaks in
route 66 - he did nothing chewie/notyou could have seen, so no need for 12 hour wait
third crusade - rule breakers lost game anyway
labyrinth - he did nothing chewie/notyou could have seen, so no need for 12 hour wait
classic - match forfeited by mint/cc for breaking 12 hour rule and not clearly rectifying it.

So revised score is 11-9 - winners still mint murray/CC

Firstly congratulations to mint and cc for beating us.
But just to play devils advocate Kiz, this is just an observation and I'm not asking for the results to be overturned as i'm really not bothered but some people would be.
In route 66 and labyrinth they broke the rules and the result stands! So whats the point of the 12 hour fog rule. Its why I think the 12 hour fog rule is meaningless as in those 2 games the fact remains it had absolutely no bearing on the outcome of the game, but if this had been a clan war involving say Kort and AFOS they would (possibly) demand that the 2 games be forfeited (Or replayed) because rules are rules.
Basically outlines should be made in OP for stages of punishment.
Like I say just an observation as I think this is your first tourney, and something you could bear in mind for future ones.

Thanks for hosting its a good idea for a tourney and i enjoyed the first round.

Good luck to those of you who made it through.

by **kizkiz** on Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:27 am

Chewie, i agree that i could have made it clearer, which has been rectified in round 2.
Not sure why the breaks that didn't do anything matter though? You want them to post "I took a territ you can't see from a territ you can't see"?
I regularly take a turn early with 12 hour rule if there's no point waiting, in both clan and tourneys. Never been an issue
I can see where you're coming from, and i'll bear it in mind for future tourneys.
thanks for playing

by **mint-murray** on Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:16 am

Okay firstly I have given our opponents 5 rating on the games - and will not lower myself and change this, just because Chewie is incessantly whingeing.

As for 12 hour fog rule, I am aware of this due to Clan Games - however I was unaware that this rule was in place in this tournament and do not believe any reminder was sent out prior to tournament starting (although I may be wrong on this).
Game play is game play - and it really shouldn't make any difference in long wrong, they did not use BOB - so you play on instinct and make moves based on what makes sense - not the fact someone took a turn when only 8 hours and 26 minutes had elapsed.
As for applying punishment - is it acceptable that this was applied in retrospect ???: when no action was stated at start of tournament. If it was such an issue why did they not ask for games to be restarted rather than having an expectation they would win games through default and not their actual performance.

Well it would appear that even with punishments applied we are winners - I am sure Chewie is still annoyed that we have not been forcefully ejected from the tournament, VVV will oblige with a Clan War if vengeance and closure is required. With or without 12 hour fog rule, he can decide.

by **kizkiz** on Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:19 am

12 hour fog rule was in place prior to start of tournament and was discussed in this thread also.
Anyway, it's in the headers for the next round, so no excuses

by **mint-murray** on Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:40 am

No worries.

by **Chewie1** on Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:11 am

mint-murray wrote:Okay firstly I have given our opponents 5 rating on the games - and will not lower myself and change this, just because Chewie is incessantly whingeing.

As for 12 hour fog rule, I am aware of this due to Clan Games - however I was unaware that this rule was in place in this tournament and do not believe any reminder was sent out prior to tournament starting (although I may be wrong on this).
Game play is game play - and it really shouldn't make any difference in long wrong, they did not use BOB - so you play on instinct and make moves based on what makes sense - not the fact someone took a turn when only 8 hours and 26 minutes had elapsed.
As for applying punishment - is it acceptable that this was applied in retrospect ???: when no action was stated at start of tournament. If it was such an issue why did they not ask for games to be restarted rather than having an expectation they would win games through default and not their actual performance.

Well it would appear that even with punishments applied we are winners - I am sure Chewie is still annoyed that we have not been forcefully ejected from the tournament, VVV will oblige with a Clan War if vengeance and closure is required. With or without 12 hour fog rule, he can decide.

Mint you are misunderstanding me.
I have not once asked for you to be forcefully ejected, I did ask in an earlier post what the punishment was!
We just pointed out that rules were broken.
We could debate this all day but we lost end of, I'm not interested in having a war of words cause its only a game.... but a war with you guys in the future would be cool?