Conquer Club

hey guys,

I have an idea for a tournament which is going to be really interesting. What I need is individuals (or bring your team of 3) for my games. They will involve a bit of a twist to the game. A randomly generated player from either team is going to be a spy for his/her opponents. The spy's teamates won't know which of the players is the spy. The team of 3 which doesn't contain the spy (which has the spy working for them) will know who the spy is after X amount of turns (set by me).
Therefore, the spy will want his normal team to lose, so it is essentially 4 v 2. guys, i'm not sure if it will work, so please join in and we can tweak it so we can develop my upcoming tournament.

Conditions: Triples, sequential, sunny, no spoils, chained
map: USA New England

If you want to be a tester, reply or PM me. Once I have two teams we can start a game.

Game 1
Evil Semp
astronautg117
awell007
blank
vs.
blank
blank
blank
blank

Game 2
blank
blank
blank
blank
vs.
blank
blank
blank
blank

Game 3
blank
blank
blank
blank
vs.
blank
blank
blank
blank

Once a game is ready to go, i'll ask one of the participators to create the game, then i will use random.org to determine which player will be the spy. Then i'll PM the team that doesn't contain the spy and inform them which of their opponents is the spy after X turns (for starters i'll make it after 6 turns).
Any questions??

Cheers. ofthe

EDIT: Now I have decided there will be two spies, one on each team. Teams will be 4v4. Also, we're going to try it foggy and non-foggy, just to see which way works best.
Also, because some players will win the tournament game but lose actual points, because they were a spy or whatever, there will definately have to be a pize for the winner...

I don't want in, but I do think it's a very interesting concept, so I have a question for you to think about...how will the spy see anything on the game-map? He'll be as blind as his teammates. Worse, he also won't have access to the chat of the team he actually wants to win (the team of 4 players).

I'm not sure how logistically this can be overcome.

Woodruff wrote:I don't want in, but I do think it's a very interesting concept, so I have a question for you to think about...how will the spy see anything on the game-map? He'll be as blind as his teammates. Worse, he also won't have access to the chat of the team he actually wants to win (the team of 4 players).

I'm not sure how logistically this can be overcome.

The game-map? It's sunny, he'll see everything like a normal player. That's true, he won't access his teammates chat, but once his teammates know that he is the spy, he can send PMs to them if they really want to contact him. Otherwise, he doesn't have that facility. Makes it more realistic, don't ya think? In real life, it is hard to contact the spy without the enemy noticing...

Did you clear this with a TD?

Unless you state clearly what the spy can and cannot do, this is a predefined secret diplomacy and not allowed.

jpcloet wrote:Did you clear this with a TD?

Unless you state clearly what the spy can and cannot do, this is a predefined secret diplomacy and not allowed.

Well, no. I haven't asked a TD yet, but I suppose, once it's time to do so, I'll have to inform them. The tourney participants will know very clearly how the games are played so it's not like i'll be cheating anybody. Everybody will know the idea of the game will be about inconspicuously helping the other team (if you're the spy).

I'll help test

thanks, updated

I'll test.
What's another loss...

If you do this, you probably shouldn't allow the spy to send/receive messages from the other team. Real spies don't have contact with home base until they're through.

I don't see how it will make a difference whether or not anyone knows who the spy is. The best thing for the spy to do will be to kill his teammates, and with only three people playing, it's unlikely anyone will be sharing troops, so he might as well start killing them right away. Then there's really no chance for the team with the defector to win. You might as well just set up 6 player doubles and tell two teams not to attack each other.

ofthe wrote:

Woodruff wrote:I don't want in, but I do think it's a very interesting concept, so I have a question for you to think about...how will the spy see anything on the game-map? He'll be as blind as his teammates. Worse, he also won't have access to the chat of the team he actually wants to win (the team of 4 players).

I'm not sure how logistically this can be overcome.

The game-map? It's sunny, he'll see everything like a normal player. That's true, he won't access his teammates chat, but once his teammates know that he is the spy, he can send PMs to them if they really want to contact him. Otherwise, he doesn't have that facility. Makes it more realistic, don't ya think? In real life, it is hard to contact the spy without the enemy noticing...

I guess if it's sunny, I don't really see what the spy's purpose would be. Foggy it would make more sense to me, as the spy would then have "eyes where the others don't". But only having access to the other team's chat...well, you can generally tell what they're talking about in a sunny game simply by watching their moves, can't you?

Not trying to throw a wrench in, because I do actually like the idea...I think it's very creative. But I'm just trying to help overcome a potential pitfall.

ofthe wrote:

jpcloet wrote:Did you clear this with a TD?

Unless you state clearly what the spy can and cannot do, this is a predefined secret diplomacy and not allowed.

Well, no. I haven't asked a TD yet, but I suppose, once it's time to do so, I'll have to inform them. The tourney participants will know very clearly how the games are played so it's not like i'll be cheating anybody. Everybody will know the idea of the game will be about inconspicuously helping the other team (if you're the spy).

I'm glad I dropped by. JP is correct, this is not allowed in a tournament, and probably shouldn't be allowed in Callouts either.

Very intriguing idea. But, wouldn't that mean that the 'spy' would eventually suicide on his teammates? And as someone already mentioned, how to define how the team game chat to work? It could possibly get out of hand whereby that spy would possibly PM his actual team for advice or 'insider' information. Like I said, it IS an intriguing idea and I wish the best of luck to you.

nator

Hey Ofthe wouldn't the spy also lose points on his profile?

cheers for the call out I'm interested to see how this goes, let me know what TD say.

Duke, since when have you been worried about losing points, though??

Well done awell007, that's the spirit

@BaldAdonis: Yeah, but saying to particpants "Don't send messages to your team if you're the spy" isn't going to stop them doing it, you see?
OK, let's pretend in turn 1, spy starts trying to kill his teamates (his own team). Immediately, they will recognise him as the spy and start attacking him, then win as soon as they wipe him. Anyway, I'm going to change the rules so it's 4v4 with 1 spy on either team. Therefore, the 4 won't overpower the 2, it will be an even 4v4 match...

@Woodruff: The spy's purpose is to destroy the team he infiltrated when the time is right. Although, I guess making it foggy would be more interesting.

@owenator: Suicide? yes, if you mean, eventually start attacking his teamates, yes, he would. Once the spy, or now, either spy is destroyed, the game is over, even if both teams still contain players. At that point, the host (me) will tell who's left to start killing each other as if it was a normal game, and points are there to be won, even though that end result won't have an impact on the tournament result.

ofthe wrote:Suicide? yes, if you mean, eventually start attacking his teamates, yes, he would. Once the spy, or now, either spy is destroyed, the game is over, even if both teams still contain players. At that point, the host (me) will tell who's left to start killing each other as if it was a normal game, and points are there to be won, even though that end result won't have an impact on the tournament result.

This is clearly not allowed.

Night Strike wrote:I'm glad I dropped by. JP is correct, this is not allowed in a tournament, and probably shouldn't be allowed in Callouts either.

I gave a little slack to see where the clarification would be. This will be moved the the Tournaments G&A area.

I like innovative ideas, however, you have to still make sure you follow the rules. If you have something that is questionable, you should be asking 1. in the right area and 2. from someone who really knows that area.

Continue on with your thoughts, but make sure you ask the right questions.

Duke of Paddy wrote:Hey Ofthe wouldn't the spy also lose points on his profile?

True enough, but the intent would be to win the tournament itself, not to worry about the points.

So basically its a way of point-dumping for the spy.

...errgh..who really cares much about points??? If it's any incentive, winning a prestigous toruney is pretty important, and i would make sure only quality players are entered because the teams will be changing throughout the tourney (because the spy joins the team) so you don't want your really good team being plagued with deadbeats. Also, there would definately have to be a prize (premium memberships) for the winner, so that people don't come out of the tournament feeling like they got cheated out of a few hundered points...

edit: alright, jp, I really want this to go ahead, so who should I be contacting to talk about it?

ofthe wrote:edit: alright, jp, I really want this to go ahead, so who should I be contacting to talk about it?

You've already got your answer. This idea is full of secret diplomacy, and to an extent serial teammate killing which are both against site rules.

Gilligan wrote:

ofthe wrote:edit: alright, jp, I really want this to go ahead, so who should I be contacting to talk about it?

You've already got your answer. This idea is full of secret diplomacy, and to an extent serial teammate killing which are both against site rules.

Well, this is a real shame. Shame on you, Gilligan.

ofthe wrote:

Gilligan wrote:

ofthe wrote:edit: alright, jp, I really want this to go ahead, so who should I be contacting to talk about it?

You've already got your answer. This idea is full of secret diplomacy, and to an extent serial teammate killing which are both against site rules.

Well, this is a real shame. Shame on you, Gilligan.

You should choose your words more wisely if you ever should want the support of the clan organizers/directors. Even if it were a joke....just my two cents.

nator

ofthe wrote:

Gilligan wrote:

ofthe wrote:edit: alright, jp, I really want this to go ahead, so who should I be contacting to talk about it?

You've already got your answer. This idea is full of secret diplomacy, and to an extent serial teammate killing which are both against site rules.

Well, this is a real shame. Shame on you, Gilligan.

Shame on Gilligan? For what, pray tell?

Choose my words wisely? I did! I chose my words very wisely. Right now I am very annoyed and in keeping respect with the organisers of this site, i think declaring shame where shame is due, is fair enough.

Why shame? Because here I am, trying to put on a tournament, wanting the support of the tournament directors...and I get spat in the face. They're all banging on about how they always get the same bracketed knock-out tourneys, and I come along with an innovative and well-thought out idea, and it gets rejected because CC is tied down with so much red tape. It's a tournament with special rules on how the games are played within the tournament, which shouldn't transpose to normal games. It wouldn't be secret diplomacy if the particpants knew crystal clear what the rules entailed. But no, CC has become a grinding bureaucracy which hasn't let free ideas flourish.

Already I have recieved positive feedback from people with someone saying

That's going to be awesome

.

ofthe

Not an official statement:

I just get the feeling that this is opening the door to secret diplomacy. The site specifically has rules against the gameplay you are looking to achieve. So, why should they tell everyone else that secret diplomacy is bad, but tell you that your tournament, based on secret diplomacy, is ok?