Scapula

by **killercheez** on Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:07 pm

ARMY OF GOD IS OPEN AND SHUT

by **Hannibał** on Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:09 pm

"Having multiple accounts is considered cheating. We routinely sca multiple accounts and offending members will be banned from Conquer Club."

I voted no, and explained why on first page.. although in his defense he wasn't banned, which would be justice, according to the rules set and punishment set. IF king told him to pay up again that is indeed extortion. Just dosent make sense why they would allow the 2nd account to be active, premmium or not if you believe a players cheating they can cheat weather its 4 games or 40 at a time.

by **Woodruff** on Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:01 pm

Scapula wrote:I would like to give you all the details of the great injustice carried out by the Conquer Club authorities and hope that you will find the time to support me in my battle to rectify it.

Allow me to explain. Some time ago, I set up a Conquer Club account under the name of “Jimi” which I haven’t used for well over a year. Two weeks ago I decided to return to the website but was unable to sign onto that account because it had seemingly expired – presumably because of the fact that it was dormant. As a result, I set up this new account, “Scapula”, paid the $25 for Premium Membership and have been enjoying playing ever since.

Unfortunately, Conquer Club has decided to withdraw my Premium Membership on the basis that I have multiple accounts. This is incorrect as the accounts have not been active simultaneously and therefore I have not – and nor would I even if I could – used more than one account at the same time, let alone in the same game. I consider myself a competitor of great honesty, principle and integrity.

I have complained to Conquer Club and been in correspondence with an individual called King Achilles. Despite putting forward what I consider to be a very reasonable case they have refused to reinstate my Premium Membership and are also refusing to refund the $25 I paid two weeks ago.

In King Achilles first email it was stated that I could “still upgrade to be a premium member once more” providing I did “not create another account again”. I consider this to be not only unfair but also a form of extortion. I will not pay twice for one service and plan to fight this great miscarriage of justice.

I would be very interested to learn what you think about this and would appreciate your support if you feel you want to give it. In particular, it would be great if you could offer your support by posting on my wall or voting on this discussion above (which I had no part in setting up, by the way).

If you would like to see the email correspondence between King Achilles and me for verification, I will be happy to provide you with it.

Kind regards, Scapula

Here's my view. I very much sympathize with your predicament. I honestly do. I believe your account of the situation and, I'll bet, so does King Achilles. Unfortunately, your account of the situation is truly irrelevant. I don't mean that in a smart-ass way...I mean that it just is. The only thing that matters is that you do, in fact, have two accounts. Fortunately for you (now), you cannot be hit as a multi for that other account again, so you should be good to go.

How could you have avoided this? Simply by opening an e-ticket rather than creating another account. I understand completely why you DID create the second account...and I can see that I might have done the same thing in your shoes, making the same assumption. But it is what it is, and they don't give much leeway for that particular rule. And with some good reason, as the potential "claims" of your same situation would be unavoidable and endless.

by **Woodruff** on Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:03 pm

jefjef wrote:One thing that CC should do is have a CONTACT US link on the home page for email to email communication that does not require a creation of an account. That info is in the HELP forum but I'm sure it isn't looked at by all that many people.

I certainly agree that while the ability to open a help ticket exists without creating an account, it is NOT VERY EASY TO FIND. It absolutely should be.

by **Namor** on Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:12 pm

Woodruff wrote:
jefjef wrote:One thing that CC should do is have a CONTACT US link on the home page for email to email communication that does not require a creation of an account. That info is in the HELP forum but I'm sure it isn't looked at by all that many people.

I certainly agree that while the ability to open a help ticket exists without creating an account, it is NOT VERY EASY TO FIND. It absolutely should be.

Here, Here.

--------------------------

Maybe it's because I don't know how the multi hunters work, but i don't understand how they knew this was a multi... isn't it possible that the second account was opened by another family member?

by **codierose** on Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:51 pm

ive been done as multi myself long story wont go into it all i ask before the premium is taken away is that you get contacted first and asked WHY. even if it is breaking the rules
personally i would rather give the money to a freemium rather than line the pockets of CC what happens to the money when its taken away ??? given to charity :roll:

if your that pissed about it go to paypal and complain

by **jsnyder748** on Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:34 am

i agree with you completely scapula, this seems very unfair.

by **Craig25** on Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:56 am

If the inactive account has not been used in any games then he should get his premium back with a stern warning not to be a dough ball in future and open any 2nd account.

by **Scapula** on Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:45 am

Thanks everybody for contributing. There are some really good points being made from both sides. I want to answer as many as I can but one, I'm hungover, two, I'm about to go away for the weekend and three, my Mrs is starting to get a bit annoyed with the amount of time I've been spending on here! Although I have been sick all week and very, very bored so thanks for the entertainment.

Right now though, I've got to crack on and get ready to leave.

by **Scapula** on Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:54 am

Quickly though, I want to answer a point by Namor. I can't find the old account anywhere (probably because I'm an idiot)!

As for the last sign in, I haven't been able to see that but I have tried to sign on a couple of times during this saga but been faced with an error message. Maybe it's registered then, I don't know. I only wish I could have just signed on and played, then this would never have happened.

by **Scapula** on Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:09 am

As for solutions to this, I think Watsy is absolutely correct. I'd be perfectly happy if the old account was shut down and I could keep Scapula. Then, you'd be welcome to keep an eye on what I'm up to - there's something quite amusing about having a reputation as a controversial player anyway and to have this all kept on record, adding to my infamy, is fine by me. It'd be nice if my Premium Membership was reinstated because I liked playing a lot of games at once and did feel good about supporting a good website, brilliant game and very nice online community. What I won't do is pay again like I know others have in my position. I do think it's wrong that the sanctity of the Multiple Account rule is diminished simply by paying another $25.

That's in the hands of King Achilles and the Conquer Club authorities and with this discussion and the vote in mind, I'll accept their final decision. If in the end I'm only allowed to play four games at once & am not able to get fully involved in your community, then I'll be disappointed. Even though that would probably be better for my mental health and would keep Mrs Scapula happy!

Best wishes,
Scapula

PS Now I'm running late and in big trouble!

by **thebest712** on Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:17 am

yip, rule one is a stupid rule

by **natty dread** on Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:50 am

thebest712 wrote:yip, rule one is a stupid rule

You'd let everyone have as many accounts as they want?

by **thebest712** on Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:21 am

natty_dread wrote:
thebest712 wrote:yip, rule one is a stupid rule

You'd let everyone have as many accounts as they want?

nope its just take way to striktly

by **natty dread** on Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:32 am

thebest712 wrote:
natty_dread wrote:
thebest712 wrote:yip, rule one is a stupid rule

You'd let everyone have as many accounts as they want?

nope its just take way to striktly

Well either it's enforced in all cases or not at all. It can't be halfway, that would be stupid and unfair.

by **Namor** on Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:16 am

Scapula wrote:... I want to answer a point by Namor. I can't find the old account anywhere...

Firstly, here is your old account, Jimi, which you can see, has been accessed on 10th March. The account is currently inactive, which is apparent by the fact that 'Guests' is the only usergroup available (but that is probably only since being kicked for rule violation). It would be nice if one of the mods could shed some light on this, if only so that this discussion can be conducted on fact, rather than speculation.

Secondly;

Scapula wrote:... I do think it's wrong that the sanctity of the Multiple Account rule is diminished simply by paying another $25...

Scapula has a valid point here.

* EDIT *
BTW, I haven't voted yet. I'd rather wait for all of the facts (but at the moment I'm leaning toward Yes).

by **Hannibał** on Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:27 am

I have a easy solution, while going through the trouble of making accounts "inactive"...delete them..no reason to keep people around from 5 years ago. :idea:

by **TheForgivenOne** on Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:52 am

Hannibał wrote:I have a easy solution, while going through the trouble of making accounts "inactive"...delete them..no reason to keep people around from 5 years ago.

Accounts go inactive after 30 days of no turns.This would just give users the option to get around a ban from the Forums or Live Chat by just going inactive after 30 days, and come back with a shiny new account.

by **Scapula** on Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:37 pm

I think there are two major points here. One demonstrating an error on my part and the other demonstrating unjust behavior on the part of the Conquer Club authorities.

First, my own error. Upon trying to sign on for the first time since July 2009 (as it turns out, thanks Namor) but failing to, I should have contacted Conquer Club using the method highlighted by Evil Semp & Woodruf.

I didn't do that and just set up a new account under a new name so to not delay getting on with playing what I find a very enjoyable game. I had no idea that that would be a problem as seemingly (at the time) the old account had expired and it wasn't even a Premium Account anyway, something I wanted because I can now play on my iPhone regularly (and therefore play quickly and not miss turns) and, as it happens, as a reward to myself for going for two weeks without smoking.

Going by the rules, I shouldn't have done that but the point remains that I do not have two accounts in order to cheat and I am perfectly happy for the older one to be deleted. Afterall, it hasn't been used for nearly twenty months.

As for Conquer Club, I genuinely feel that despite it being a good website and community, they have behaved in an unjust and somewhat extortative manner in both my and other players cases similar to this. Here's why:

Members such as Evil Semp, Woodruf, natty_dread & Ijex seem to believe in a zero tolerence approach when it comes to the Multi Account rule and do you know what? They're intentions are absolutely correct. This is a great game and it's honourable players should be protected from cheats. They see the rules as sacred.

However, one of the listed benefits of Premium Membership is this:

"Feel that WARM and FUZZY feeling you get from supporting a website that you love"

Nice that, isn't it. Support some good guys for creating a good website. Decent chaps that believe in honesty, fair play and the integrity of the rules.

Why is it then that the sanctity of the rules counts for nothing, providing you pay ANOTHER $25?

Could I open as many accounts and cheat as much as I like provided I could afford the back-hander each time I got caught? Are the rules stricter for the poor than they are the wealthy? It's wrong and it's unsavoury.

If this is the reality of the application of the rules then clearly they are more flexible than the above named members would like and on that basis, I think my own case should be looked at individually and judged with reason.

I have not cheated any of my opponents. I have behaved reasonably on the most part and I am capable of contributing to your community as evidenced here.

I understand that I may now be under suspicion and am happy to be continually observed and scrutinised if that satisfies the more cynical among you.

All I want to do is play as many games as I can, improve my ranking, relax and have fun. You can close my old account as I don't use, want or need it. Surely that's reasonable?

If you believe in common sense, then please vote "YES"!

by **Evil Semp** on Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:11 pm

thebest712 wrote:
natty_dread wrote:
thebest712 wrote:yip, rule one is a stupid rule

You'd let everyone have as many accounts as they want?

nope its just take way to striktly

So how would you like the no multiple accounts rule enforced?

===================================================================

Namor wrote:
Scapula wrote:... I want to answer a point by Namor. I can't find the old account anywhere...

Firstly, here is your old account, Jimi, which you can see, has been accessed on 10th March. The account is currently inactive, which is apparent by the fact that 'Guests' is the only usergroup available (but that is probably only since being kicked for rule violation). It would be nice if one of the mods could shed some light on this, if only so that this discussion can be conducted on fact, rather than speculation.

Scapula signed into the jimi several days after they were busted as multi's. That just proves he knew the log in information. Yes you can still log in after a bust but you are not able to use any of the features like an active account. Free accounts are inactive after a bust. Premium accounts lose their premium and become free accounts. Accounts that are not used for over 30 days get dropped off the score board but they are still active accounts.

Namor wrote:Secondly;
Scapula wrote:... I do think it's wrong that the sanctity of the Multiple Account rule is diminished simply by paying another $25...

Scapula has a valid point here.

The purpose of letting someone back in is to give them second chance which Scapula has been given by still being a free account.

Namor wrote:* EDIT *
BTW, I haven't voted yet. I'd rather wait for all of the facts (but at the moment I'm leaning toward Yes).

I hope this answered your questions.

===================================================================

Hannibał wrote:I have a easy solution, while going through the trouble of making accounts "inactive"...delete them..no reason to keep people around from 5 years ago.

Why not just use the original account and not make another account? That would save trouble and pretty much put me out of a job.

*Edit

I meant to say this before about the older accounts. Some members take time away from playing and return and use their old account.

by **Hannibał** on Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:52 pm

Or why not outright ban people busted instead of slimply pick pocketing them, allowing them to stick around and continue their behavior?

^Dosent take away your volunteer job (thankyou btw, your only enforcing the rules the way your told) just makes it easier

by **Evil Semp** on Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:26 pm

Scapula wrote:I think there are two major points here. One demonstrating an error on my part and the other demonstrating unjust behavior on the part of the Conquer Club authorities.

First, my own error. Upon trying to sign on for the first time since July 2009 (as it turns out, thanks Namor) but failing to, I should have contacted Conquer Club using the method highlighted by Evil Semp & Woodruf.

I didn't do that and just set up a new account under a new name so to not delay getting on with playing what I find a very enjoyable game. I had no idea that that would be a problem as seemingly (at the time) the old account had expired

Accounts do not expire.

Scapula wrote:and it wasn't even a Premium Account anyway, something I wanted because I can now play on my iPhone regularly (and therefore play quickly and not miss turns) and, as it happens, as a reward to myself for going for two weeks without smoking.

It doesn't matter if an account is premium or free, only 1 account per customer. You can upgrade free account to premium without creating another account.

Scapula wrote:Going by the rules, I shouldn't have done that but the point remains that I do not have two accounts in order to cheat

Not all multiple accounts are used for cheating, some use them to get around the 4 game limit for free accounts.

Scapula wrote:and I am perfectly happy for the older one to be deleted.

Accounts do not get deleted.

Scapula wrote:Afterall, it hasn't been used for nearly twenty months.

You signed in the second account on the 10th of Mar.

Scapula wrote:As for Conquer Club, I genuinely feel that despite it being a good website and community, they have behaved in an unjust and somewhat extortative manner in both my and other players cases similar to this. Here's why:

Members such as Evil Semp, Woodruf, natty_dread & Ijex seem to believe in a zero tolerence approach when it comes to the Multi Account rule and do you know what? They're intentions are absolutely correct. This is a great game and it's honourable players should be protected from cheats. They see the rules as sacred.

Again I will state all multiple accounts are not created for cheating the points system. Many to get around the 4 game limit and some create a second account and use it to learn other maps, then play those maps with their main account to gain points.

Scapula wrote:However, one of the listed benefits of Premium Membership is this:

"Feel that WARM and FUZZY feeling you get from supporting a website that you love"

Nice that, isn't it. Support some good guys for creating a good website. Decent chaps that believe in honesty, fair play and the integrity of the rules.

Why is it then that the sanctity of the rules counts for nothing, providing you pay ANOTHER $25?

You get a second chance.

Scapula wrote:Could I open as many accounts and cheat as much as I like provided I could afford the back-hander each time I got caught?

No you do not get to keep buying back your account.

Scapula wrote:Are the rules stricter for the poor than they are the wealthy?

No they are not.

Scapula wrote:It's wrong and it's unsavoury.

What's wrong and unsavoury? The fact that we have a rule that you agreed to when you signed up and were held accountable for breaking that rule.

Scapula wrote:If this is the reality of the application of the rules then clearly they are more flexible than the above named members would like and on that basis, I think my own case should be looked at individually and judged with reason.

How are they more flexible? Any member free or premium has the option of buying back after being busted. They don't get unlimited buybacks.

Scapula wrote:I have not cheated any of my opponents. I have behaved reasonably on the most part and I am capable of contributing to your community as evidenced here.

You may not have cheated your opponents in a game but you did go back on your agreement to not to have multiple accounts.

Scapula wrote:I understand that I may now be under suspicion and am happy to be continually observed and scrutinised if that satisfies the more cynical among you.

All I want to do is play as many games as I can, improve my ranking, relax and have fun. You can close my old account as I don't use, want or need it. Surely that's reasonable?

Would one reason for wanting the newer account be the fact that you do have a higher score than the older account? You played 130 games on the jimi account and have a lower score than you do with the Scapula account which has only played 35 games. I would want to keep the scapula account also.

Scapula wrote: If you believe in common sense, then please vote "YES"!

If you believe in common sense, then please vote "NO"!

Nobody said you opened the second account to cheat, but you did check the box that all important box that says you will only EVERuse one account, not once but twice.

by **thebest712** on Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:47 pm

well I just would do rule like this, if you play only on one account, the second account gets deleted/blocked/inactivated if they still can play on first, if they play on both= bust

by **Commander62890** on Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:23 pm

I feel that many of those who create a new account and upgrade to premium on it (while not playing a single game on the old account) have no intention to break the rules. Therefore, these people should be informed of their mistake, have the new account closed, and have the premium applied to their first account. If it happens again, then they are stripped of their premium.

The way it is set up, too many people that have no intention to break the rules are losing their money, and it just seems like CC is stealing these peoples' money with an unnecessarily strict rule.

People shouldn't be getting a "warm and fuzzy" feeling about supporting CC... this rule is oppressive and takes money away from people with good intentions.

Edit:

To clarify, people who play games with their old account at the same time that they play with their new account should be punished. But if they are not playing with their old account, they should be informed of the one account rule and have one of their accounts scrapped. If it happens again (though I can't imagine it would), THEN they lose their money.

Do you see how this is just a way for CC to make money? Such bullshit...