Obama releases longer birth certifcate

[Symmetry]

Thread: Donald Trump for President? (PLEASE NO!)
page 1, post 10
Date: 4/1/2011

Ok, then why does [the birth certificate issue] still come up? My gosh, people are stupid. Back on topic, DON'T VOTE FOR TRUMP.

Well, at least he'd fire people...

But you will continue to mis-characterize me. That is the kind of game you and your's play. "You don't like him, you are racist", "You are outspokenly conservative, you are a conspiracy theorist". To each his own.

This "game" is what it was all about. It fueled the "racist" chants across America for 2.5 years. (the very same racism everyone thought electing a dark skinned president was supposed to heal)

The highest race card ever played. The Race of Spades

That's a low blow. How does the narrative work now?

Campaigning in 2008 Hilary Clinton demanded to see Obama's birth certificate, helping her opponent to achieve victory by tarring all republicans with accusations of racism, which of course was not a part of the issue, and Republicans were never involved with anyway. Then, knowing that he could dispel the rumours, Obama deliberately released a short form birth certificate knowing that it wasn't enough to prove he was born in the US as a deliberate attempt to make conservatives look foolish, although none of them took the bait and all courageously stood up and said that they didn't care. MSNBC and the liberal media then ran the story in spite of conservative outlets like Fox treating the issue with the contempt it deserved.

Now Donald Trump courageously forced Obama to release a longer version of the birth certificate, which although it certifies that he was born in the US, was never a birth certificate and thus doesn't prove he was born in the US, and anyway it was a certificate of live birth, or maybe a certification of live birth depending on which document we've decided to criticise today. Anyway, this is a victory for Trump, who we don't care about anyway, except that it's also a victory for Obama, carefully engineered by Hilary Clinton. We should also acknowledge that this, while being a victory for Democrats who want to suggest that race played a role in this, is also a crushing defeat for Obama and Hilary Clinton, who at some point colluded in a plan to make birthers and Donald Trump look a bit racist.

Republicans, of course, stayed entirely out of this. It was just a bunch of liberals questioning the birthplace of the first black president, and playing the race card (because, of course, suggesting that some of the more irrational opposition to Obama such as the suggestion that he isn't legally American might be due to a bit of racism, and of course racism is what black people do to become president (along with their weak minded liberal allies)).

But anyway. The long form certificate of live birth, Obama secretly withheld it 2 and 1/2 years ago, knowing that it would create a bunch of people that could then be tarred, completely irrationally with accusations of racism. This lie, started by Hilary Clinton, was designed to get a black guy into office in spite of his lack of qualifications (or we're working on that one- we're pretty sure he edited that Harvard law journal because of affirmative action and took the job from a more deserving white candidate, although that's not the point, anyway Trump is on the case for purely non-racist reasons).

The issue now is not whether Obama was born in the US, it's whether he got to be where he is because of affirmative action, which of course is actual racism. The real kind- the stuff against white middle class men. Without the kind of leadership of Donald Trump, we would still believe in the liberal conspiracy theory that Obama wasn't really eligible to be president. Except that we're not sure about Trump yet.

Where were we?

[Mr_Adams]

affirmative action, which, of course, is actual racism.

Taken out of context, Symmetry can be made to look as though he understands how the world works.

Edit: fixed grammar in Sym's post

[Symmetry]

affirmative action, which, of course, is actual racism.

Taken out of context, Symmetry can be made to look as though he understands how the world works.

Edit: fixed grammar in Sym's post

My thansk. Do you offer a spelling service too?

[Mr_Adams]

not so good with that one.

[Symmetry]

not so good with that one.

Ah- that trick usually works. You're the first not to take the obvious bait.

So anyway- I can accept that I've been a bit unfair on you. I state absolutely here and now that I don't think you're racist, and I don't really think that you're a birther.

I do wonder why you're using this "2 and 1/2 years and he didn't settle it" argument when I thought you and I had gone over it. That's a birther argument.

In the earlier thread I pointed out that he settled it in 2008, and you seemed to acknowledge that he'd done enough. That the people who continued questioning were stupid. What changed? Why are you posting this stuff again after acknowledging that?

I can speculate about your reasons all night, and those speculations are not unreasonable. Just explain why in one thread you said one thing, and in this one you say another.

If you think that you were wrong to accept the birth certificate released in 2008, then say so.

[Phatscotty]

Not to mention, look at the soldiers who have refused to deploy based on this issue. Look at what the issue did to our soldiers morale.

From what I am seeing, Obama asked for his birth certificate and got it in about 3 days. It really was as simple as that. He just needed to ask for it.

[PLAYER57832]

Thread: Donald Trump for President? (PLEASE NO!)
page 1, post 10
Date: 4/1/2011

Ok, then why does [the birth certificate issue] still come up? My gosh, people are stupid. Back on topic, DON'T VOTE FOR TRUMP.

Well, at least he'd fire people...

But you will continue to mis-characterize me. That is the kind of game you and your's play. "You don't like him, you are racist", "You are outspokenly conservative, you are a conspiracy theorist". To each his own.

This "game" is what it was all about. It fueled the "racist" chants across America for 2.5 years. (the very same racism everyone thought electing a dark skinned president was supposed to heal)

The highest race card ever played. The Race of Spades

the truly funny part is that is conservatives who keep raising the race issue, not liberals.
BUT, when you make it so obvious... yes, even we liberals will "call a spade a spade". ..or in this case, racist.
Shakespeare put it well "thou dost protest too much"

[PLAYER57832]

Not to mention, look at the soldiers who have refused to deploy based on this issue. Look at what the issue did to our soldiers morale.

Any soldier who refused to deploy for such a stupid reason ought to be courtmartialed. We don't need idiots in uniform.

[Phatscotty]

that's a lie. Chris Mathews owns the Birther Issue. He has mentioned it almost every single day for 2 years, and that is the truth. He even feautures the issue in his "move forward" advertisement for his show.

[Mr_Adams]

not so good with that one.

Ah- that trick usually works. You're the first not to take the obvious bait.

So anyway- I can accept that I've been a bit unfair on you. I state absolutely here and now that I don't think you're racist, and I don't really think that you're a birther.

I do wonder why you're using this "2 and 1/2 years and he didn't settle it" argument when I thought you and I had gone over it. That's a birther argument.

In the earlier thread I pointed out that he settled it in 2008, and you seemed to acknowledge that he'd done enough. That the people who continued questioning were stupid. What changed? Why are you posting this stuff again after acknowledging that?

I can speculate about your reasons all night, and those speculations are not unreasonable. Just explain why in one thread you said one thing, and in this one you say another.

If you think that you were wrong to accept the birth certificate released in 2008, then say so.

You see, for me the whole thing was a none-issue ever since he became president. I figured there was no point in arguing over something that wasn't going to effect anything at all. If he can make it into the office, how is MY worrying about it going to effect anything. I never said the '08 one was good enough for me, as I didn't care at that point. I did say that it would be stupid to go on any further with the issue when you brought the '08 one up, but then that was my opinion before that. My statement was, I believe, "why doesn't he just show it and end the argument". It's the same thing here- they wanted the long form birth certificate, he should have shown it on day one and shut the whole thing up, but, true to form (as a politician), he turned it into a big political issue the simplest way possible. In this case by ignoring it. Now do you understand my opinion on the matter? In short, MOVE ON people. Let's discuss things such as the fact that he is a Marxist, that his proposed tax on the "top 2%" is inconsistent with his repeated "taxing the millionaires and billionaires", as 2% includes people in the upper 100K's. A household of two professionals making, say, 90K/each would be in the top 2%. So, which is it, Mr. Obama? You want to tax 1/50 people more, or do you want to tax the top .01% (millionaire/billionaires)?

[bradleybadly]

the truly funny part is that is conservatives who keep raising the race issue, not liberals.

Bullllllllllshitttt!

It's liberals that create these identity class scenarios and then if you don't abide by them according to their wishes then you're an Uncle Tom. Trust me, I've seen these assholes first hand right outside of Baltimore do nothing but drum up small crowds of black people into a frenzy of hate. This Uncle Tom tactic especially applies to black men who refuse to whine about slavery's past or go on welfare.

Liberals are great about caring for blacks, hispanics, or any other group they deem oppressed when election time comes near. About 2 days after it's over, you can't find any of them still living in the neighborhood.

As to the OP, these birthers are almost as crazy and the evangelicals thumping and preaching. We're now going to be treated to how well this birth certificate was doctored. Nothing is ever going to satisfy their intent to prove that Obama's election was fraudulent. He won the election. Get over it, birthtards!

[thegreekdog]

Symmetry, here is my understanding of the non-issue (which is without the color commentary you provided):

- In the Democratic primary Hillary Clinton (assisted by her husband) asked Barack Obama to provide proof that he was born in the United States.
- Barack Obama's people called Mrs. Clinton (and her husband) racist.
- The Clintons dropped the issue and lost the primary.
- Some conservatives (and some non-conservatives) asked Barack Obama to provide proof that he was born in the United States.
- A birth certificate was provided, but some conservatives (and some non-conservatives deemed it incomplete).
- Barack Obama's people called all conservatives racist (not some, all).
- Donald Trump took the case.
- A long form birth certificate was provided.

The End.

[PLAYER57832]

Symmetry, here is my understanding of the non-issue (which is without the color commentary you provided):

- In the Democratic primary Hillary Clinton (assisted by her husband) asked Barack Obama to provide proof that he was born in the United States.
- Barack Obama's people called Mrs. Clinton (and her husband) racist.
- The Clintons dropped the issue and lost the primary.
- Some conservatives (and some non-conservatives) asked Barack Obama to provide proof that he was born in the United States.
- A birth certificate was provided, but some conservatives (and some non-conservatives deemed it incomplete).
- Barack Obama's people called all conservatives racist (not some, all).

You missed a few steps
Obama, many others immediately said "let's not make his about race"

Most people let it die, but conservatives continued to push it, AND continued to insist that anyone objecting to their claims were immediately saying "racist", even though other criticisms were most often voiced.. specifically that the issue is solved. Conservative talk shows, etc, also insisted that anyone saying that Obama was being criticized for political reasons and such were really talking about racism.
3 years later and ...

- Donald Trump took the case.

Donald Trump might be good at making a dollar, but he is hardly either the most ethical or forthright person.

- A long form birth certificate was provided.

Why he picked this time, I have no idea. Likely the upcoming election has something to do with it. Overall, I think Obama has made quite a few people, particularly Trump look stupid. Unfortunately, a lot of people seem to like stupid.

The End.

Sadly, this is unlikely to be the true end.

[thegreekdog]

Obama, many others immediately said "let's not make his about race"

OBAMA'S COUNTRY OF ORIGIN HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS RACE!!!

YARGH!

That's why this whole thing pisses me off (from the Democrat side anyway; from the conservative side it pisses me off because this is a stupid thing to pay attention to). It's not a racist statement. Xenophobic? Yes. Stupid? Yes. Racist? OF COURSE NOT!

EDIT - By the way, I covered the "conservatives continued to push it." I don't agree with them continuing to push it, but, well, some conservatives thought this would be the best issue to latch onto.

[Mr_Adams]

Most people let it die, but conservatives continued to push it, AND continued to insist that anyone objecting to their claims were immediately saying "racist", even though other criticisms were most often voiced.. specifically that the issue is solved. Conservative talk shows, etc, also insisted that anyone saying that Obama was being criticized for political reasons and such were really talking about racism.

Excuse me, sir, I listen to my fair share of talk radio, and the only place I've hear anything about this issue in the last 2 years are Donald Trump, this forum, and televised news.

[PLAYER57832]

Obama, many others immediately said "let's not make his about race"

OBAMA'S COUNTRY OF ORIGIN HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS RACE!!!

I AGREE... and so do most sensible people, both Republican and Democrat. However, the far right insists on making it an issue... and yes, sorry, greekdog, but as Shakespeare noted, objecting too much IS often a hallmark of guilt.

That's why this whole thing pisses me off (from the Democrat side anyway; from the conservative side it pisses me off because this is a stupid thing to pay attention to). It's not a racist statement. Xenophobic? Yes. Stupid? Yes. Racist? OF COURSE NOT!

YOU now join the right in insisting that it is the Democrats only making this claim.
[

EDIT - By the way, I covered the "conservatives continued to push it." I don't agree with them continuing to push it, but, well, some conservatives thought this would be the best issue to latch onto.

Of course it is a political game... but, the racism bit has been mentioned by them a bit too often.

See, for all these claims that it is liberals making it about racism, I have barel;y heard a word about that on any liberal news outlet. I HAVE heard it said by conservatives, many, many times. So I started out saying "it's not about racism, its about dirty politics, etc".. however, racism seems to be rearing its ugly head now a bit too much.

[thegreekdog]

Okay, look... someone's country of origin, specifically President Obama's, has nothing to do with race. If a white Democrat man had been elected president and there was a question as to his place of birth the conservatives who brought up the issue with Obama would have brought it up with him.

Are there racist people on the birther issue? Yes, of course. Are there racist people who hate the president? Yes, of course. Is the birther issue about race? No. It's stupid and it's irrelevant but it is not racist for someone to question someone's place of birth. I'm sorry, it's not. You can keep saying it's racist, but it's not. Are the conservatives paying attention to this issue all idiots? Yes they are. Are they xenophobic? Probably yes. Are they racist? No.

What you are arguing is akin to you saying, "TGD, men can't be stay-at-home parents" and me firing back with, "You're a religious bigot." It doesn't make sense.

YOU now join the right in insisting that it is the Democrats only making this claim.

I didn't say the Democrats were the only ones making this claim!!!! YARGH! Read Player, read! Some Democrats originated this claim in the primary election. Some conservatives have carried it through.

See, for all these claims that it is liberals making it about racism, I have barel;y heard a word about that on any liberal news outlet.

Yeah? Someone provide links to player. Chris Matthews has mentioned it multiple times. Keith Olbermann mentioned it multiple times. The chick who replaced Olbermann has mentioned it multiple times. Liberal radio hosts on Sirius have mentioned it multiple times. IT WAS MENTIONED TWO DAYS AGO ON PBS!!!

[Mr_Adams]

Are they xenophobic? Probably yes. Are they racist? No.

Or they are looking for a quick, legal way to remove one of the worst presidents in history, and simultaneously nullify every action he has taken as president? Maybe? (I AM NOT a birther, just saying)

[SirSebstar]

the worst president?
wow, considering the reforms he is making/pushing through, i would see him as the best president the usa has ever had.. doing nothing is ofcourse also an option, but that is more the concervative side.. concerve it till it rotts and then drop it somewhere else..

[thegreekdog]

the worst president?
wow, considering the reforms he is making/pushing through, i would see him as the best president the usa has ever had.. doing nothing is ofcourse also an option, but that is more the concervative side.. concerve it till it rotts and then drop it somewhere else..

What specific reforms are you referring to?

[SirSebstar]

Increase minority access to capital
Implement "Women Owned Business" contracting program
Require economic justification for tax changes
Require large employers to contribute to a national health plan
Fully fund the Veterans Administration
Direct military leaders to end war in Iraq
Repeal "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy
Sign a "universal" health care bill

[thegreekdog]

Increase minority access to capital
Implement "Women Owned Business" contracting program
Require economic justification for tax changes
Require large employers to contribute to a national health plan
Fully fund the Veterans Administration
Direct military leaders to end war in Iraq
Repeal "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy
Sign a "universal" health care bill

They look like great ideas, for the most part, but I'm still not seeing where the president has done any of those things.

- I'm not sure the federal government can provide access to increased capital for minorities. I know the City of Philadelphia and the states of New Jersey and Pennsylvania have programs where companies are required to have at least one black contractor on every project. Not sure about the federal government.
- I'll give you the "Women Owned Business" contracting program. Sounds like a huge boost.
- The president is not in favor of an economic justification for tax changes, so that one shouldn't be on your list.
- Requiring large employers to contribute to a national health plan looks like it describes the Affordable Care Act. However, I'm not sure you're reading the provisions of that act correclty. The plan is not a national one.
- The Veterans Administration has been and will continue to be fully funded. I think maybe you're giving credit to the president for not defunding the VA.
- The War in Iraq has not ended. I'm not immediately familiar with President Bush's plan, but I believe President Obama's plan is substantially similar. Further, President Obama has us involved in Libya, if I'm not mistaken.
- I do not believe Don't Ask, Don't Tell has been repealed. I do know that the gay community is rather unhappy with the President's lack of action with respect to homosexual marriage.
- The president did not sign a universal healthcare bill. The Affordable Care Act does not provide universal healthcare (or universal health insurance). Prior to the act's passage, 60 million or so Americans did not have health insurance. After the act's passage, 40 million or so Americans will not have health insurance.

[Mr_Adams]

- I'm not sure the federal government can provide access to increased capital for minorities. I know the City of Philadelphia and the states of New Jersey and Pennsylvania have programs where companies are required to have at least one black contractor on every project. Not sure about the federal government.
- I'll give you the "Women Owned Business" contracting program. Sounds like a huge boost.

These are both bull crap. What happened to the most qualified for the job? When you skin color/genital arrangement begins to matter more than your ability, it is NOT helpful.

the worst president?
wow, considering the reforms he is making/pushing through, i would see him as the best president the usa has ever had.. doing nothing is of course also an option, but that is more the conservative side.. conserve it till it rots and then drop it somewhere else..

Not THE WORST but ONE OF THE WORST. Of course we have Wilson, in some aspects the Bushs, FDR etc. But he's up there.

[Frigidus]

the worst president?
wow, considering the reforms he is making/pushing through, i would see him as the best president the usa has ever had.. doing nothing is of course also an option, but that is more the conservative side.. conserve it till it rots and then drop it somewhere else..

Damn, the best? He's mediocre at best. Clinton part two. How about FDR? Teddy Roosevelt? William Taft?

[Mr_Adams]

the worst president?
wow, considering the reforms he is making/pushing through, i would see him as the best president the usa has ever had.. doing nothing is of course also an option, but that is more the conservative side.. conserve it till it rots and then drop it somewhere else..

Damn, the best? He's mediocre at best. Clinton part two. How about FDR? Teddy Roosevelt? William Taft?

FDR perpetuated the depression, and Taft was daft, but what do you have against Teddy?