Perhaps someday when I have a job where I can sit at a computer all day and taunt people instead of working multiple jobs and maintaining some semblance of a social and family life, I will be able to answer your every call, Funky. Until then, calm your shit.
Funkyterrance wrote:Neoteny wrote:You already have a leg up on, say, john9blue, whose views on most, if not all, topics is unnecessary and undesired.
This is really an unfair statement. I happen to appreciate john9blue's views. He is severely outnumbered and that's just a matter of the demographics of this site but implying that he's not a welcome contributor because he voices a minority group is wrong. Where do you get off exactly?
Johnny is perfectly capable of having a rational discussion. I just haven't seen it happen in several years. He's a big boy; he can take care of himself, pops.
Funkyterrance wrote:Neoteny wrote:When Sady says "shut the f*ck up", she's not actually going for closing off the conversation. She's responding forcefully, and with some comedy, to the overwhelming privilege that men feel they should be allowed to be in everything, including, apparently, a place designated as a safe space for women to talk about feminism, and other things, without having to put up with the same shit they have to everywhere else. This is an issue that Americans in particular have, thinking that the right to free speech trumps everyone else's right to not have to listen to you, but it's an international problem as well. If a woman wants a man's opinion on feminism, she can go to reddit, or a news website, or outside her door. If she wants to laugh a bit and work on serious shit with other women without having to explain to a dude for the umpteenth time how "man-hating" is a phrase (and has been for decades) used to ridicule and intellectually demote the feminist movement as a whole despite the fact that it certainly does apply to some feminists, she can go to Tiger Beatdown.
So you're defending the feminist equivalent to a men's club where guys sit around playing golf, smoking cigars and telling sexist jokes? Or a construction site where the unsaid rule is "no women with equal rights allowed". These are great places for chauvinistic men to feel comfortable in their own skins. If any environment is going to encourage the "man hater" mentality, it's a place where your average uninformed man or any man who dares disagree with the general consensus, is not welcome.
Well, yes, sort of. For once, you've almost got it right. I'm defending feminists who want to have the rare space where clueless men aren't allowed. It's not really hurting you, is it? Or the movement? I'm sure you didn't even know it existed until I wanted to steal her joke to make a point (which, I'm not certain you've gotten yet. The point was that maybe uneducated individuals should not expect to be taken seriously in circles where a little education is expected). It's a place where women, and men who give a shit, can talk about their experiences with patriarchy, rape culture, abortion, queer rights, intersectionality, etc. and not worry about random internet dudes calling them man-haters, sluts, liberals, PC, or whatever. If you, for some reason, aren't ok with that, Freddy has a blog that might interest you. And, to be honest, it's not terrible. But he, just like you, seems to miss the point that TB is not a place for any swinging dick to parrot their misconceptions about feminism. It's not a place that sets out to educate ignorant men. There are already places for that. Tiger Beatdown has a very specific set of goals. Where do you get off talking about whether those goals are appropriate, and whether they is effective in their own right or within a broader movement, particularly when you so obviously have no idea what they're about, or why they're even that way? Is it because you have a penis? Is that what makes you feel like your opinions are so important? Is it because you are so well-versed about feminism? Why, Funky?
Funkyterrance wrote:Neoteny wrote:Sady doesn't want all men to shut up about feminism. She appreciates plenty of men with feminist perspectives.
In other words, she's ok discussing perspectives with people who agree with her. What a breakthrough! Don't hurt yourself, Sady.
She discusses perspectives in a variety of places with a variety of people. She actually doesn't post much on TB anymore. But you obviously don't know what you, or I, for that matter, are talking about, so I wouldn't expect you to know these things. Look, here she is doing a thing in
Salon about 30 Rock. I bet she's just been waiting for you to comment on that one.
Funkyterrance wrote:Neoteny wrote:Regarding Sady. I think the hardest part is that you need to enjoy that type of humor or be more familiar with her tone.
Maybe. But you posted her quotes, therefore taking responsibility for their literal interpretation. Anyway, we are getting her/your tone just fine within your posts I think.
That's completely bizarre. Not everyone is as boringly literal as you, FT. I bear no such responsibility, and I urge you to maybe divest yours every now and then. I feel like you would tell the Bible that it's responsible for creationists.
Funkyterrance wrote:thegreekdog wrote:I'm just wondering how Neo is going to explain feminism when he's not a woman and has painted himself into a corner of "if you're not a woman you cannot understand feminism."
Oh yeah, that. But isn't it more like "If you're not a feminist you can't understand feminism."? I'm not sure which is a tougher stance to defend.
Wow, guys. It took you 9 pages to come up with that one. I'm not sure if I should credit your restraint or your intelligence. Also important to note, the glossing over of the following statements, on top of the fact that neither of those stances are the stance I'm taking:
Neoteny wrote:Most of these guys recognize that they possess a certain amount of privilege, and that the number one thing to do when discussing sexism is to shut the f*ck up for a second and listen. The second thing is to shut the f*ck up a little more. Maybe not even offer an opinion. It's hard to do, and I've failed to do it in this thread, but I tried. I really did.
Neoteny wrote:thegreekdog wrote:Neoteny wrote:Oh, well my position is that this thread was pretty lame, serving as an echo chamber for a bunch of dudes unfamiliar with feminism. Also, Sady Doyle is hilarious and sometimes I steal her lines.
EDIT: I forgot the part about how people involved in a subject are more likely to be better contributors, but it's probably for the best since it will be reduced to a straw man about how nobody can talk about anything while criticizing me for making a straw man argument.
In related news, no women have posted in this thread.
Which I am disappointed about, and the only reason I decided I should chip in.
john9blue wrote:Funkyterrance wrote:Neoteny wrote:You already have a leg up on, say, john9blue, whose views on most, if not all, topics is unnecessary and undesired.
wow you're a douchebag neo lol. good thing funky quoted this cuz i would have missed it (i've learned to ignore your longer posts because they aren't worth my time)
you only call people's opinions "undesired" when you disagree with them. meaning you're only looking to hear opinions that you already agree with. meaning, not only are you a closed-minded moron, but you also act just like the lady who wrote that article. surprise, surprise.
ironically, you're the one who seems to be outnumbered and unappreciated in this thread, but i guess that's not stopping you from pretending that everyone intelligent agrees with you
John, stop being childish.
BigBallinStalin wrote:What's your position about feminism? And what's your main contention against me or any criticism against feminism?
My position about feminism is that it is awesome. My main contention against you requires that we go back to this post:
BigBallinStalin wrote:kentington wrote:Gillipig wrote:jonesthecurl wrote:Gillipig wrote:I consider men to be less worth than women but also more competent than women. Where does that put me? Male chauvinst or feminist?
arsehole.
I was thinking more like "Realist".
That just assures them that you are a total male chauvinist.
[ramble]
Honestly, I think feminism has gone too far and is now hurting its own cause. I agree women should have equal rights and be able to vote. I agree that they should have an equal chance at being hired. But I have seen feminist women verbally attack other women who didn't work but stayed home and raised kids. These outspoken ones may be a minority, but from any feminist I have met it seems to be a constant. Those that I have met also tend to hate men or hold them in a negative light. This creates a poor image for those of us who aren't "in" with them and makes us lean away from them.
[/ramble]
Yeah, pretty much sums up feminism.
Agreeing with Kentington there gets you lumped into the same boat of people making generalizations about groups based on apparently limited knowledge of the group, which is pretty ironic considering the content with which agreement is being found. You got bonus points indicating your ignorance when you were talking about the "radical positions" of first- and second-wave feminism in a negative light. They both had extreme elements, but when you consider that "radical" in the context of wave one is literally the main foci of sufferage, property rights, education, etc, you come across as a little silly there. They weren't even growing their body hair out or anything grody like that. And when you consider the main goals of second-wave feminism, as opposed to the convenient minorities I'm sure you'll use to justify your sweeping opinions, I'm curious as to what was so radical. Those few women who wanted to kill all the men?