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thegreekdog wrote:What are the third and fourth options?
Let's imagine that a police force is permitted to collect and use any evidence it wants without asking a judge first. The police force can search your (you Player) bank accounts, it can walk into your home without knocking, it can tap your phones without a warrant. Do you care?
Metsfanmax wrote:thegreekdog wrote:What are the third and fourth options?
Let's imagine that a police force is permitted to collect and use any evidence it wants without asking a judge first. The police force can search your (you Player) bank accounts, it can walk into your home without knocking, it can tap your phones without a warrant. Do you care?
In this case the information has already been gathered, so your analogy is totally false. The phone tapping and home-searching has already happened (and legally, in this case). Now the only question is whether the police can bring you to court with it.
thegreekdog wrote:What are the third and fourth options?
Let's imagine that a police force is permitted to collect and use any evidence it wants without asking a judge first. The police force can search your (you Player) bank accounts, it can walk into your home without knocking, it can tap your phones without a warrant. Do you care?
thegreekdog wrote:Metsfanmax wrote:thegreekdog wrote:What are the third and fourth options?
Let's imagine that a police force is permitted to collect and use any evidence it wants without asking a judge first. The police force can search your (you Player) bank accounts, it can walk into your home without knocking, it can tap your phones without a warrant. Do you care?
In this case the information has already been gathered, so your analogy is totally false. The phone tapping and home-searching has already happened (and legally, in this case). Now the only question is whether the police can bring you to court with it.
Actually, those things have not happened. The CIA has not already "tapped phones" and done "home searches." The provision in question allows the CIA to "tap phones" and do "home searching."
Metsfanmax wrote:thegreekdog wrote:Metsfanmax wrote:thegreekdog wrote:What are the third and fourth options?
Let's imagine that a police force is permitted to collect and use any evidence it wants without asking a judge first. The police force can search your (you Player) bank accounts, it can walk into your home without knocking, it can tap your phones without a warrant. Do you care?
In this case the information has already been gathered, so your analogy is totally false. The phone tapping and home-searching has already happened (and legally, in this case). Now the only question is whether the police can bring you to court with it.
Actually, those things have not happened. The CIA has not already "tapped phones" and done "home searches." The provision in question allows the CIA to "tap phones" and do "home searching."
The analogy is still flawed. From a practical point of view, this is like if the cop at the local police station, who keeps all the files on financial crimes locked in his desk, decides to give the key to his buddy the homicide cop.
Metsfanmax wrote:thegreekdog wrote:Metsfanmax wrote:thegreekdog wrote:What are the third and fourth options?
Let's imagine that a police force is permitted to collect and use any evidence it wants without asking a judge first. The police force can search your (you Player) bank accounts, it can walk into your home without knocking, it can tap your phones without a warrant. Do you care?
In this case the information has already been gathered, so your analogy is totally false. The phone tapping and home-searching has already happened (and legally, in this case). Now the only question is whether the police can bring you to court with it.
Actually, those things have not happened. The CIA has not already "tapped phones" and done "home searches." The provision in question allows the CIA to "tap phones" and do "home searching."
The analogy is still flawed. From a practical point of view, this is like if the cop at the local police station, who keeps all the files on financial crimes locked in his desk, decides to give the key to his buddy the homicide cop.
PLAYER57832 wrote:thegreekdog wrote:What are the third and fourth options?
Let's imagine that a police force is permitted to collect and use any evidence it wants without asking a judge first. The police force can search your (you Player) bank accounts, it can walk into your home without knocking, it can tap your phones without a warrant. Do you care?
Oops, sorry, having to past and write/edit in word, then past backā¦ wind up missing things sometimes as a result.
My point is that Microsoft and Google can basically already do that. They might not get the exact totals of my bank account today, but already have enough information to deduce that if they wished. Currently, they cannot be bothered.
BUTā¦ scenario 3 is where someone else, outside the US probably, gets that information and uses it. This is already happening. We see big names mentioned on the news, but the main reason folks like myself are not being actively targeted is just that there is little to be gained. Fast forward to a more tight political situation and issues that really need every vote, and suddenly you have some interest in my personal information. In that case, its unlikely that āthe governmentā will have a big stakeā¦ those already in the government have much easier paths to use.
Scenario 4 is that Google or whomever sells my information, perhaps with my permission (likely implied, but possibly overt), to marketers. I do a search for, say, causes of rectal bleeding. Suddenly my inbox is filled with advertisements for hemorrhoid treatments, instructions about rectal cancer screenings, etc. A bit, erm.. rude, perhaps, but not dangerous. Now, however, fast forward to a search for various womenās issues. Letās say that this information winds up in the hands of my employerā¦ or just could be marketed to my employer. NOW do you care? I would. A woman who works for a Roman Catholic school might just care.
Scenario 5ā¦ is already happening, but gets even more scary. Google already says it can target searches based on previous searches. That means that Nightstrike is more likely to get conservative data, Viceroy is going to find all kinds of anti-evolution stuff. If their kids do a search for some science project, are they going to get the same information as yours or mine? Are they going to truly understand the difference? Will their teachers? (The answer to the last is already ānoā, by-the-way, in many cases)
thegreekdog wrote:[
No offense (because you raise valid points), but, although I'm concerned as to what Google does with their information, Google can't kill or imprison me. The federal government can, so I'm more concerned with them.
PLAYER57832 wrote:thegreekdog wrote:[
No offense (because you raise valid points), but, although I'm concerned as to what Google does with their information, Google can't kill or imprison me. The federal government can, so I'm more concerned with them.
Yet....
But also, this is not limited to US players. Right now, the more common threat is loss of all your money, sometimes a house.
(seriously, as records get twisted).
However, there is nothing to stop someone from doing many other things, ranging from inserting nasty pictures on your computer to other things. (let your imagination roll.. I don't care to elaborate).
The only thing keeping us safe from such threats is that so far, those types of actions are not terribly profitable.
I am not so much worried about Google, per se, itself coming in and arranging to have me put in jail. However, google has the information that could be sold (more likely for real people with real power and/or money, of course).
Just heard, for example that the First Lady and Joe Paterno's data was publically released. It would not take much imagination to envision something much, much worse.
AND... the foundation of our rights is knowledge of those rights. Lack that knowledge, and we have no protections at all.
Either way, the government threat is rather passe.
"National security letters date back to the 1980s and were strengthened under the USA Patriot Act, the counterterrorism law put into place after Sept. 11. The letters allow the FBI to get data on phone, financial and electronic records without a judge or grand jury, as long as the head of an FBI field office certifies that the records would be relevant to a counterterrorism investigation. They typically come with strict secrecy orders, barring the recipient from acknowledging the case to anyone but attorneys."
Metsfanmax wrote:thegreekdog wrote:What are the third and fourth options?
Let's imagine that a police force is permitted to collect and use any evidence it wants without asking a judge first. The police force can search your (you Player) bank accounts, it can walk into your home without knocking, it can tap your phones without a warrant. Do you care?
In this case the information has already been gathered, so your analogy is totally false. The phone tapping and home-searching has already happened (and legally, in this case). Now the only question is whether the police can bring you to court with it.
aage wrote: Maybe you're right, but since we receive no handlebars from the mod I think we should get some ourselves.
rishaed wrote:Metsfanmax wrote:thegreekdog wrote:What are the third and fourth options?
Let's imagine that a police force is permitted to collect and use any evidence it wants without asking a judge first. The police force can search your (you Player) bank accounts, it can walk into your home without knocking, it can tap your phones without a warrant. Do you care?
In this case the information has already been gathered, so your analogy is totally false. The phone tapping and home-searching has already happened (and legally, in this case). Now the only question is whether the police can bring you to court with it.
Objection!!! I declare a violation of my 4th Amendment! They must have a warrant when either, searching my home, tapping my phone wires, or searching my private information! TO obtain the warrant they must have reasonable suspicion.
Metsfanmax wrote: Yet the current law mandates that the private financial institutions must report "suspicious" activity, which is not in line with our intuitive understanding of how the government should be obtaining information about you. Instead of trying to fight which agency of the government has access to this information, we should fight the law that makes the financial industry become the government's stool pigeon.
thegreekdog wrote:Actually, those things have not happened. The CIA has not already "tapped phones" and done "home searches." The provision in question allows the CIA to "tap phones" and do "home searching."
BigBallinStalin wrote:Well... the CIA isn't suppose to operate within US borders. That's what the NSA and FBI are for.
aage wrote: Maybe you're right, but since we receive no handlebars from the mod I think we should get some ourselves.
rishaed wrote:BigBallinStalin wrote:Well... the CIA isn't suppose to operate within US borders. That's what the NSA and FBI are for.
Dont delude yourself I would bet the bank it's happened.
aage wrote: Maybe you're right, but since we receive no handlebars from the mod I think we should get some ourselves.
warmonger1981 wrote:Top secret operations are rarely talked about so proof of CIA working inside the US is doubtful. I would bet they have though. Why would they not if it ultimately benefits them?
BigBallinStalin wrote:rishaed wrote:BigBallinStalin wrote:Well... the CIA isn't suppose to operate within US borders. That's what the NSA and FBI are for.
Dont delude yourself I would bet the bank it's happened.
You blame organization A yet ignore organizations B and C, which are capable of performing and complementing the activities of organization A. Just sayin'.
warmonger1981 wrote:Do the ends justify the means? Is there not a portion of the budged that is like a black hole. Numbers or costs of jobs are itemized but they have no job title or description. Just saying that the money that would need to be used could be easily taken out of that black hole. Not everything that needs to be done in the best interests of the government will be on paper.
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