The Hobbit Mafia [Town win]

[IcePack]

2) You look like you're hiding under your no-lynch stance to avoid scum-hunting. But you're right, I would also like to have the stance of other players, esp. IcePack since he clearly said he had some suspicions. From what I understand he'll try to make a case out of it on D2, but I don't see why he can't just now.

I know you're not addressing me here in the first sentence but as I have similar stance and need to reply to the second part, definitely not avoiding scum hunting. I have the same if I feel there's a case to be made I'll vote but in general will be no lynch unless otherwise convinced today.
Regarding why not today instead of tomorrow, because it's weak today and making the accusation puts them on the defense and can hide their true reactions. I want to see what / how they reply on D1/N1 and D2 as I think it can provide a much stronger case instead of giving my FOS now and they avoid replying in ways that add to my FOS.

[BuJaber]

I'm not going to re-quote Pika's epic post (You're very welcome.). Scroll up.

But I will ask Pika a question or two: How do you intend to prevent scum from leading a 'blind' lynch against a townie on Day 1? ...or, do you even care?

Every positive action (e.g. voting for somebody) leaves a paper trail, if scum convince town to vote for somebody else today it makes it slightly easier to guess who they are tomorrow, or potentially even tonight for any relevant power roles. Negative actions on the other hand (i.e. not voting or voting for a No Lynch) give very little to go on if anything. Losing a townie to a lynch is objectively better than losing them to an anonymous killer, especially when we have townies to spare such as at the start of most games.

How do you intend to prevent the lynch being "blind" if you don't share your suspicions with the group, or... Do you even care?

This is the clearest and most concise argument for lynch I've seen. I get that thor disagrees but saying you're scummy based on this is really suspicious or at best dellusional.

Ending the day before dealing with the missing player puts us at a disadvantage. So I don't want to do that yet but here are my top scum picks:

Thinking about the story... I'm learning/re-learning much more about The Hobbit.
I just figured out that orcs = goblins... so there were orcs in The Hobbit...
...and furthermore Jackson added a dwarf-hunting orc named Azog in the movie, that wasn't in the book.

Azog was in the book, he just (canonically) died at that dwarf/orc battle at the beginning of the film. Bolg then takes up the 'head orc' position for the rest of the story, though he doesn't really show up until the final battle.

Could the One Ring be a game character in it's own right?
Al lot of interesting play could result from that.

That...is an interesting point. Certainly the One Ring has a will of its own, but I think that would suit far more in a LOTR mafia rather than this one.

People have started to sling mud and MM is still talking about flavor. Suspect.

Hotshot has a history of successfully scumarining and has so far only posted twice after confirming, and latching on to pika who in my opinion is at the very least trying to be helpful. Suspect.

Skoffin.. no clear reason yet I'm just getting a bad vibe. I mean she did give us a list but then what and just names is not much to go on.

Not to say that all others are not scummy of course.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I went back and looked for any post where DirtyDishSoap even slightly implied they were suspicious of anybody or their actions and I couldn't find one. What I did find was this however:

So, not wanting to lynch anyone D1, how do you want to go about this day, DDS? (Curious, not facetious.)

I don't mind discussing the set up for now. As far as I would have it, just a no lynch and see where Days 2 takes us and hopefully we nab a lead.

I'm largely a minority in this case, as far as discussion goes, I'll partake, but in terms of looking for scum tells on days 1 isn't really my strong suite to begin with.

You clearly refuse to participate in Day 1 of the game because you're set on No Lynching, even if you are set on a No Lynch you could at least comment on something other than the setup of the game. How does this help town? How is town meant to have anything to go on going into Day 2 if nobody talks about anything other than setup during Day 1? Refusing to properly participate in Day 1 sets you up as a neutral party, you've disagreed with nobody over anything substantial, and likewise nobody has anything to disagree with you over. If scum this is a valid tactic, if town this is simply selfish.

No Lynching unless a candidate for scum appears is a self-fulfilling prophecy, if nobody has any pressure put on them then nobody will ever look scummy. If a game is day-starting it's clearly balanced under the expectation of a Day 1 lynch, otherwise there's no reason not to make it a night-start game.

I believe this is mostly directed at Thor, but I'll address it anyways because I'm at fault too.

To be fair, I did say that I'm pretty shit in determining scum tells on Days 1. Would rather not be a hindrance. I've also stated in the past that (despite what I've been doing in this game anyways), is noy participate on Days 1 for two reasons; A. The typical pattern here in few games I've participated in, have been the joke phase, someone not understanding a joke, and then wild accusations occur. B. I've seen no games where Days 1 was absolutely crucial to have a lynch for a Town win unless it's a small game.

Not going to list any other arguments for the no lynch argument, because again, it's been beaten dead a long time ago, and you're all more than welcome to discuss it there.

As for agreeing and disagreeing with people...I haven't seen anything that would warrant any action (yet). The reason I would like to discuss this setup anyways is because I think it's absolutely crucial we determine what exactly IS THE THEME FOLLOWING.

I've seen Bard being thrown around as being in this, however, he doesn't make an appearance until the 2nd film. Book wise not sure. Yet another factor that I think would be rather important that we should all come to agree on when Days 2 starts.
The fact that this is titled "The Hobbit" leads me to presume that this is following the first book/film. Hence why I'm trying to determine what possible fake claims would be out there. I'm not sure who can't see the benefit behind it unless people are blind or ignorant. We can't even agree with the dwarves ffs. lol. You can probably get your scum tells from this by reading in-between the lines of who disagrees with the set up because, chances are, their fake claim could be in the other books/films.

There's a plethora of reasons why I would like to determine if this is actually following the first book thematically, or if this is following all 3 films into one game. There's a method to my madness, people.

[Skoffin]

I can't seem to go a game without someone suggesting I'm scum because "Idk man... just feels bad". I don't know what to make of this.

I'm amending my list. Both Pika and MM are being removed; the rest of the list stands as it was.

DDS - I assumed it's the entirety of The Hobbit, otherwise why not add to the name something that indicates it's part of a series? As the book was just listed as the one title this leads me to believe that this game may in fact be based on the book and not the films.

[DirtyDishSoap]

What do you make of people's interaction so far?...
...Why don't you try answering my question instead, Thor?

It's Day 1, I don't have any strong opinions about any player or interaction yet... but I do find attempts to make something out of nothing a bit scummy...
but I know everybody does that a little bit, either accidentally or out of sheer Day 1 boredom.

You're honestly the strongest lead here recently because of the lack of anything from you, other than the occasional question about the mechanics of the game. (Mafia that is). This is almost exactly the same playstyle you've had in the previous game.

Again, I have to reiterate this for the rest...This is Thor's second game, and he was killed not too long into it. This isn't much of a substantial pattern to go off of, but it's worth noting.

Players agreeing with each other without a clearly logical and fully explained reason is scummy. I'm not impressed by people claiming to be experts. Rational explanations must be given.

So if I were to say I like pie, and another player agrees with me that he too, likes pie, but didn't go into detail of why he likes pie, you would just assume he's scummy? I can't dumb it down any further than that.

Several players pushing for a blind lynch is very suggestive of scum. Scum may not have had a chance to talk yet but they know who each other are.

I get that this is past tense, but no one here has pushed for a lynch. Come off the high horse there, coach.

For now, I'll stick to my 'no lynch' guns. It's not scummy, it is the fair and cautious approach to take, at least until an obvious scum candidate is discovered.

I will join a lynch on Day 1 if it doesn't seem reckless or scummy. So now it is up to the pro-lynchers to build their case!

Why can't you build a case against someone? It should be up to you as well to look for the scum tells as much as anyone else here. Granted, me being the dirty no lyncher that I am, I'm still looking for signs and suspects on Days 1 just like everyone else. I just like to bring my case forward to Days 2 if I see a contradiction. State your reasonings better, or at the very least, make it sound like everyone else shouldn't have to pick up the dead weight.

This is day 1, my suspicions will get stronger as evidence warrants. That is the way all townies should proceed. Jumping blindly on a bandwagon, or anything else, will likely be a scum/third party trap.

So far my strongest suspicion is against you, PIka. If you're completely fine with losing a townie on Day 1 you'll probably try for that again on Day 2.
Also, it's likely that the biggest thing we'll learn from a Day 1 blind lynch is which players lobbied and instigated for it most..... but we don't even need to do the lynch to learn that.
I don't need to make that official with an 'FOS' yet, but other players should also take a look at how PIka is pushing.

OMGUS incoming...

[MudPuppy]

I can't seem to go a game without someone suggesting I'm scum because "Idk man... just feels bad". I don't know what to make of this.

Perhaps posts written in blood raise more suspicion than those written with a more conventional ink selection.

[BuJaber]

I can't seem to go a game without someone suggesting I'm scum because "Idk man... just feels bad". I don't know what to make of this.

Perhaps posts written in blood raise more suspicion than those written with a more conventional ink selection.

She DOES make a good villain. I'm actually getting used to the red though.. makes it obvious who's talking.. Though if everyone did it it would be extremely irritating.

Skoffin I shall only apologize at the end of the game if I'm wrong. At least you removed Pika from your list, which means we agree on one thing. I've accused Ragian based on gut more than once before, and per his own admission, he's almost always been scum. Every once in a while it works.. just unfortunate you can't build a case on gut.

[Ragian]

unvote my joke vote.

At this point, I'm keeping my eye on whoever says a lot without saying anything. There are a few candidates already. Also, I'd like to add that I'm out of town till tomorrow, so my activity might dwindle a bit till Thursday evening.

Who?

Right now, my eyes are fixed on MM. I can't find any input from him that's beyond setup guesswork or irrelevant lore. DDS and Pika have also seemed guilty of that, but in my view, they have also added somewhat to actual discussion (Pika > DDS).

Therefore, Vote MM Let's get some information at least! I think MM is a good place to start cf. above.


I could be persuaded, however, to vote for Thor. The main reason for that would be his unwillingness to add anything about any player. It feels as if he tries very hard to not say anything that could be used against him later. I.e. it seems as if he's playing for himself, not a team. Also, twice I have seen him call his own play "not scummy". Like saying, "I have perfect social skills," in an interview. Moreover, this logical phallacy screams to high heaven:

So far my strongest suspicion is against you, PIka. If you're completely fine with losing a townie on Day 1 you'll probably try for that again on Day 2.

The opposite argument would be that since you won't lynch D1, you probably won't lynch D2.

To be honest, I don't care if some think that a no lynch is preferable to a lynch. I have my opinion, they have theirs. One can always force the opponent's argument ad absurdum, but I have faith in those proposing a no lynch not being fanatical (as DDS has expressed for instance).

I don't have any sure fire town picks at this moment, but I like the cut of the jib of the following: Flores, Zabeast, and Pika. On the other hand, I'm suspicious of BuJ. I don't like it that he doesn't find me scummy. Something is off. Also, he calls three people suspect, but doesn't vote. What gives?

Another thing that caught my eye is the weirdness of these two posts:

My completely random, totally doesn't mean anything picks for the scum today are:

DDS
Ragoo
Dakky
pika/Masket
Flores

I'm amending my list. Both Pika and MM are being removed; the rest of the list stands as it was.

Why amend a list that is completely random and totally doesn't mean anything? If the list is indeed random and means nothing, then why bother? If you're being sarcastic, then please follow up with some thoughts on why DDS, dakky, Flores, and I are on your list.

---

Just a brief bit for clarification as I was drunk in Liverpool and probably missed something concerning this quote:

DDS, I can assure you I am in this game.

Does this mean that you're claiming the role that DDS left out?

[DirtyDishSoap]

I didn't leave out a role, I mis-numbered it. It's a soft claim for one of the dwarves I mentioned that would not be in this game.

It's speculation on my end of who may more may not be present in the Company, or if the elves or other dwarves would also be present. Kind of why I wanted to generate discussion on the subject, mainly because we don't know who would be present other than that scum would consist of goblins/orcs, Smaug and Golum are more than likely in this as well.
We would have to determine who exactly didn't make an impact in the story at all when claims start coming in. Better now than never in my book.

Note: Not looking for actual claims. I'm looking for the possibilities of fake claims.

I'd like lean on Skoffins speculation that this is based on the entirety of the book as well. I've never read the book sadly, so I'm at a disadvantage.

[BuJaber]

I don't have any sure fire town picks at this moment, but I like the cut of the jib of the following: Flores, Zabeast, and Pika. On the other hand, I'm suspicious of BuJ. I don't like it that he doesn't find me scummy. Something is off. Also, he calls three people suspect, but doesn't vote. What gives?

DDS, I can assure you I am in this game.

Does this mean that you're claiming the role that DDS left out?

I answered the first issue:

Ending the day before dealing with the missing player puts us at a disadvantage. So I don't want to do that yet but here are my top scum picks:

Second I was soft claiming one of the dwarves that DDS either said were not playing or were 50/50. Couldn't resist commenting on that list of his.

[Samlen]

Softclaiming does nothing at this point in the game. It's leaving a breadcrumb trail for a fake claim if scum or information to scum if you are town.

[FloresDelMal]

I can't seem to go a game without someone suggesting I'm scum because "Idk man... just feels bad". I don't know what to make of this.

Perhaps posts written in blood raise more suspicion than those written with a more conventional ink selection.

QFT no t no shade

now i dont really get why the remaining suspects in skoff list might seem scummy to her, but as for myself i think she has always thought i was scummy, and i am the same, i always get major scum vibes coming from her, why? dunno, it might be the blood splattered font as mudpuppy points, but half of the time im wrong, so i am trying to shoo the inner voice that screams "she's scum" til i manage to actually get something on her, though i often have good hunches and zero skills to build a case around them (for ex
me pointing MM as scum on the lion king and failing miserably to get anyone to back me up, oh and i was also on skoff scum list then)

[Minister Masket]

People have started to sling mud and MM is still talking about flavor. Suspect.

I'm not the only one. In fact it's being talked about again today. Is DDS a suspect now too?

@Ragain
What information? It's Day 1. All there is so far are some very weak cases, including I guess one against myself now just because I indulged somewhat in one of my favourite universes (Middle-Earth).
Granted I'm a terrible Day 1 player as it is. I tend to put my foot in it no matter what I post, so every instinct tells me to shut up and survive at least til Day 2.

I wouldn't worry too much or put much stock in Skoff's lists. She's done that before and not many paid attention to it then either.

[Skoffin]

Another thing that caught my eye is the weirdness of these two posts:

My completely random, totally doesn't mean anything picks for the scum today are:

DDS
Ragoo
Dakky
pika/Masket
Flores

I'm amending my list. Both Pika and MM are being removed; the rest of the list stands as it was.

Why amend a list that is completely random and totally doesn't mean anything? If the list is indeed random and means nothing, then why bother? If you're being sarcastic, then please follow up with some thoughts on why DDS, dakky, Flores, and I are on your list.

Someone is on to me! I must flee

[Thorthoth]

My completely random, totally doesn't mean anything picks for the scum today are:

The only difference between Skoffin and everybody else is that Skoffin is being honest... though that may be accidental.

& I don't have time to worry about what colour his/her threads are. S/he should just tow the line and post black like everybody else.

[dakky21]

My completely random, totally doesn't mean anything picks for the scum today are:

The only difference between Skoffin and everybody else is that Skoffin is being honest... though that may be accidental.

& I don't have time to worry about what colour his/her threads are. S/he should just tow the line and post black like everybody else.

How do you know Skoffin is honest? You two in pair or what?

[Thorthoth]

My completely random, totally doesn't mean anything picks for the scum today are:

The only difference between Skoffin and everybody else is that Skoffin is being honest... though that may be accidental.

& I don't have time to worry about what colour his/her threads are. S/he should just tow the line and post black like everybody else.

How do you know Skoffin is honest? You two in pair or what?

That's it, dakky. Just knock it off. Pretending to find something in nothing is just scummy and stupid.

I honestly think you and DDS are both gunning for me for reasons that have nothing to do with the game. It's getting tiresome.

[Ragian]

Don't take a game personally. It is understood that you find dakky and DDS scummy because they're poking you. Nothing but reaction.

@MM, as stated in the very post you're referring to, others are guilty of the same, but have at least commented on the content of the game rather than stuck to flavour. Information = what people write in their posts that pertains to the game (I find this and this player scummy or town). Being unwilling to do do indicates that one doesn't want to associate oneself with anyone, which is hardly a town move.

[Skoffin]

I feel very attacked right now.

[ZaBeast]

I'm amending my list. Both Pika and MM are being removed; the rest of the list stands as it was.

I understand why you removed Pika, but why MM? I don't see what he's done from when you posted your list that would make him less suspect.

Softclaiming does nothing at this point in the game. It's leaving a breadcrumb trail for a fake claim if scum or information to scum if you are town.

We don't know for sure the roles of the dwarves so I don't think scum has much to go on to if he's not one of them (scum). I agree it should have been avoided though.

People have started to sling mud and MM is still talking about flavor. Suspect.

I'm not the only one. In fact it's being talked about again today. Is DDS a suspect now too?

So basically when asked why you don't contribute much, your answers is "look at DDS. Isn't he doing the same thing?" That is not a good defense, since you're merely avoiding the question by pointing at someone else. And for the record, Ragian did address that on his post, maybe you skimmed it? Care to actually share us your opinion?

Right now, my eyes are fixed on MM. I can't find any input from him that's beyond setup guesswork or irrelevant lore. DDS and Pika have also seemed guilty of that, but in my view, they have also added somewhat to actual discussion (Pika > DDS).

Therefore, Vote MM Let's get some information at least! I think MM is a good place to start cf. above.

My completely random, totally doesn't mean anything picks for the scum today are:

The only difference between Skoffin and everybody else is that Skoffin is being honest... though that may be accidental.

& I don't have time to worry about what colour his/her threads are. S/he should just tow the line and post black like everybody else.

How do you know Skoffin is honest? You two in pair or what?

You should cut thor some slack. Not everything he says is scummy after all I think what he meant was that he was that Skoff admitted his picks were kinda random while the rest of us are trying to build cases on weak evidence.

[dakky21]

That's it, dakky. Just knock it off. Pretending to find something in nothing is just scummy and stupid.

I honestly think you and DDS are both gunning for me for reasons that have nothing to do with the game. It's getting tiresome.

As Ragian pointed out, don't take a game personally. Finding something in nothing is pretty much impossible on Day 1 except if someone makes a big slip. Without poking people the slip won't happen. I don't have anything in particular against you so far.

You should cut thor some slack. Not everything he says is scummy after all I think what he meant was that he was that Skoff admitted his picks were kinda random while the rest of us are trying to build cases on weak evidence.

Nah, I believe he isn't scummy after all, but just provoking him to react, just like he did. I will classify him as town leaning from now on, but that doesn't clears Skoffin and her "honest" & "complete random" list with me on it.

[FloresDelMal]

My completely random, totally doesn't mean anything picks for the scum today are:

The only difference between Skoffin and everybody else is that Skoffin is being honest... though that may be accidental.

& I don't have time to worry about what colour his/her threads are. S/he should just tow the line and post black like everybody else.

How do you know Skoffin is honest? You two in pair or what?

okaaaay, i do find thor inconsistent, shifty and inherently scummy, but he is also a noob, and here he was just expressing his opinion since he voiced several times how he thought that no matter what you tried to deduce a lynch candidate, that candidacy was going to be blind, with day 1 being useless non sense and what not (of course i disagree with his stand, and i disagree even more because before getting on his high moral horse he was all too happy to BW someone and get the day over with, again, scummy and shifty) but in this comment the guy is just expressing an opinion, i dont see how, in which twisted logic argument that makes him a pair with skoff, since right now i am taking the time to defend him of what i believe is a ridiculous accusation i must be a pair with him too really even though i do agree the guy is fishy, the way you are pushing it now is making me more suspicious of you, what are you a lyncher? FOS dakky

[ZaBeast]

I don't really know what to do of dakky's behavior tbh. I kinda buy he's trying to get reactions with his wild accusations, but his arguments are highly nonsensical. First the "DDS missed a dwarf and it's probably not a town one" issue, then all this fuss with thor.
I agree with BuJ that I would also like to see HotShot post more often.

[madmitch]

can we get a vote count please, I am leaving my vote where it is for now, I know Thort is a newby but he is smart and catches on quick a hell of a lot quicker than me , He might be playing that new guy card, so keep on pushing him Dakky , better him than me

[dakky21]

can we get a vote count please, I am leaving my vote where it is for now, I know Thort is a newby but he is smart and catches on quick a hell of a lot quicker than me , He might be playing that new guy card, so keep on pushing him Dakky , better him than me

I'm not sure what to think after this... old school (last 2 years or so) players will know what you mean, but there are a lot of "new" players around. But I didn't joke vote you for quite some time.

You obviously skimmed through my post where I said I think Thor is town this game and you want to push him more? Can you explain why?

FOS mitch