DoomYoshi wrote:Yikes, another game sinking like a stone. This is getting discouraging.
Unfortunately I think the HP system is kind of discouraging strong voting patterns and with lack of votes and lack of cases, I think general activity has been somewhat discouraged.
I would have liked to think Pik a has a secondary win con pushing him to go for No lynches but he also hasn't added much in terms of content when talking about other players.
Pikanchion wrote:ZaBeast wrote:♪ If you're scummy and you know it clap your hands
If you're scummy and you know it clap your hands
If you're scummy and you know it, even if you don't wanna say it,
if you're scummy and you know it, clap your hands ♪
An excellent ruse! Let us all give ZaBeast a hearty round of applause for this mighty rendition! Who wishes to start us off?
Joke vote stage. There was also a joke vote on Skoffin that didn't seem worth quoting.
quote="Pikanchion"]Do we really even get any information when somebody is lynched if they have sufficent HP not to die from it? -With HP values of different players hidden (and potentially at different starting values given they have only been explicitly stated in the role PMs so far) there's really no telling how long it will be until the first person dies, and without a role reveal we can't even use the voting patterns as particularly reliable data until potentially much later in the game if the initial lynchee is not killed for some time...
Could this be a game where no lynch is the best option?
The most important variable here is how much damage scum do on their NK, if they only hit for 1 like the lynch then assuming we have a cop it's surely better to keep everybody as healthy as possible while the cop gets on with their job, they may well find scum before anybody even dies.[/quote]
First post out of joke vote and immediately petitions about no lynching. Nothing about any particular player.
Pikanchion wrote:strike wolf wrote:Pikanchion wrote:Do we really even get any information when somebody is lynched if they have sufficent HP not to die from it? -With HP values of different players hidden (and potentially at different starting values given they have only been explicitly stated in the role PMs so far) there's really no telling how long it will be until the first person dies, and without a role reveal we can't even use the voting patterns as particularly reliable data until potentially much later in the game if the initial lynchee is not killed for some time...
Could this be a game where no lynch is the best option?
The most important variable here is how much damage scum do on their NK, if they only hit for 1 like the lynch then assuming we have a cop it's surely better to keep everybody as healthy as possible while the cop gets on with their job, they may well find scum before anybody even dies.
The best info well get is still what we would usually get voting patterns and people reacting to how the vote goes. However, without confirmed flips from lunches, voting patterns become more murky. Still as always, the worst mistake a town can make is to not give the appearance of trying to lynch. We can't rely on the idea that there is even a traditional investigative role in an experimental game (there may be no cop and tracker/watcher results could be obscured by mafia kills not going through on the first try due to the hp system). Even if there are providing pressure and getting slips can help focus investigations.
I've been continuing to mull this over for a few days, and I still believe a No Lynch is the best option for today
at least. Scum's nightkill can't be a one hit kill unless there is only one scum player because otherwise it quickly becomes impossible for town to ever win (say we have just 2 scum with 2 HP each, then town can only afford one mislynch during the entire game), so with that in mind a succession of random lynches by town at the start is just giving scum a list of weakened targets for easy pickings as the game progresses.
We should either all agree to lynch the same person that is chosen for today's lynch every day until they die (thus giving the normal benefits associated with lynching that we miss out from due to the HP system without leaving a load of different people injured), or No Lynch until we have some degree of actionable intel from night actions (even if that information is not as specific as a cop's night result).
Pikanchion wrote:ZaBeast wrote:And also claiming would be an issue (do you claim when a lynch would kill you, when you're at risk of losing 1 HP and therefore put yourself at risk of getting picked on by scum in the meantime, or somewhere in between (if you have more than 2 HP)?)
I had given this some thought too; claiming is going to be an issue whatever we do.
If we decide players don't need to claim the first time they are lynched then they have no reason to claim until they are already close to death, at which point a low HP scum player could potentially gift their team the knowledge of any remaining role in the game by simply claiming to be said role and forcing a counterclaim at the last moment. Worse is the fact that scum can afford to not claim for longer than town players can, safe in the knowledge that they won't be picked off by an easy scum NK if they wait until their last HP to claim. Meanwhile a town player may feel the need to claim at 2 HP, because claiming any half-decent role at 1 HP near guarantees they won't survive the night anyway.
If we expect a claim on the first lynch, however, you create an incentive for powerful town roles to lie in their claims because scum will be the only ones who have no reason to doubt they're telling the truth. If they don't claim then town lynches them in x days, if they do claim (truthfully) then scum NKs them in x days, but if they lie and town believes them they won't be lynched and scum will likely target other players looking for those perceived to be more powerful, even if town doesn't believe them they still only die in that same x days because scum won't be wasting their NK on somebody they know town is set on killing.
Pikanchion wrote:Ragian wrote:Also, someone raised a nice question: How harsh is the scum nk? Does it take one HP or a life entirely? Would the mod tell us as much?
That somebody was me, but I also already answered it =P
Pikanchion wrote:The most important variable here is how much damage scum do on their NK, if they only hit for 1 like the lynch then assuming we have a cop it's surely better to keep everybody as healthy as possible while the cop gets on with their job, they may well find scum before anybody even dies.
Pikanchion wrote:I've been continuing to mull this over for a few days[...]Scum's nightkill can't be a one hit kill unless there is only one scum player because otherwise it quickly becomes impossible for town to ever win (say we have just 2 scum with 2 HP each, then town can only afford one mislynch during the entire game)
Nice self-emphasis on your contribution. Especially since everyone else is starting to talk about other people in the game by this point.
Pikanchion wrote:I think I made my stance and reasoning clear already so...
Unvote: Skoffin
Vote: No Lynch I'm happy to wait for the night phase to provide some clarity on what is going on.
Pikanchion wrote:dakky21 wrote:we can lynch me to see how the HP system works. Got enough HP, can risk one.
We know a lynch takes 1 HP, that is pretty much the only thing we actually
do know about the system already, how would lynching you on your own request help reveal anything?
5th post since joke phase and this is the closest Pik a has come to a player analysis so far.
Pikanchion wrote:So we have an experimental setup with completely unknown roles and now somebody wants to be lynched? That's not at all suspicious...
Okay. This is a little bit of something at least.
Pikanchion wrote:Ragian day vig confirmed :O
Also (presumably) scum don't have a 1 shot night kill confirmed.
I did not learn anything last night.
Pikanchion wrote:Until everybody has posted there's not much to discuss with regards to lynching today.
I guess putting mild suspicion on Dakky was too much strain for you and you've gone back to noncommittal.
Pikanchion wrote:I would be very surprised if you are not notified about it.
Thanks for the confirmation.
Pikanchion wrote:If we don't learn whether anybody took damage then we have no feedback for roleblockers, doctors, jailors, etc. We will often gain no feedback from lynching either.
Either we rely on having a cop or similar and continue to no lynch, or we need people to make claims. How many claims and under what conditions would be up for debate, but I actually wouldn't be too against a mass claim.
You've posted 14 times. Frankly right now you don't look like someone who is wondering who is secretly against them.
I would say Skoffin is equally valid for these reasons. Talking about game mechanics. Only once saying anything that resembled a non-joke accusation.