Asia Bibi

[DoomYoshi]

I didn't have enough time yet to read either of those books. Try back again in 8 minutes.

[Symmetry]

I didn't have enough time yet to read either of those books. Try back again in 8 minutes.

Sure, why not? Maybe you'll be less angry after. 'tis a hope.

[DoomYoshi]

Me so angry...

[Symmetry]

Is this still going on DY?

[2dimes]

If you push the button you get an unlimited supply of cake but symmetry gets sent to Pakistan to join up with a shipment of books by Salmon Rushdie.

Will you push the button?

[GoranZ]

Have you ever spoken to someone from Pakistan, made friends with them? Ever read any Pakistani literature? Tasted the food?

Hell, just learned the history?

Mohammad Sidique Khan, Shehzad Tanweer and Hasib Hussain had Pakistani origin. They are 3 out of 4 suicide bombers in 7 July 2005 London bombings
How will Pakistani people consider them in the history books, as martyrs or as bad people?

[riskllama]

If you push the button you get an unlimited supply of cake but symmetry gets sent to Pakistan to join up with a shipment of books by Salmon Rushdie.

Will you push the button?

i would.

[DoomYoshi]

I do love cake, but I don't want to get fat. Can it be chocolate cake? I can't stand that disgusting crap, but I can give it to all the demented people who like it and pretend I'm a nice guy by giving away my trash.

[mrswdk]

Knowing you could give everyone cake but refusing to do so just out of Symmetry's selfish self-interest would be morally repugnant.

And actually from this thread it sounds like he loves Pakistan so he's probably up for it anyway.

[Dukasaur]

Or he only says that Muslims in non-Muslim countries should be treated same as Muslims treat non-Muslims in countries with Muslim majority. Its fair opinion.

I'm not sure what you mean by "fair". If you mean some generic platitude like "everyone has a right to his opinion" then yes, fair enough, he has a right to his opinion like everyone else. Personally, I don't much like that phrase. While it's trivially true that everyone has a right to his opinion, it's a phrase that's often meant to say that all opinions are equally valid, which is nonsense. Illogical opinions deserve to be criticized for being illogical.

It is not logical that our response to evil regimes overseas should be to make our own regime more evil. It's like seeing the schizophrenic across the street punching himself in the head and deciding that you want to punch yourself in the head also.

This woman was jailed and sentenced to death for blasphemy. A politician intervened calling for a more clement punishment, he was shot dead by his own body guard. Yesterday she was freed after 10 years in jail. This is because 2 Muslim women refused to drink from the same cup as an unclean Christian, so Bibi called the prophet Muhammad something derogatory.

Here is the reaction to her not being executed for blasphemy
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc. ... e-45978590

Ever get the feeling you're sawing the branch you're sitting on snowflakes?

I don't get your logic. You see the horrible effects of religious intolerance in Pakistan, and yet you want to have more religious intolerance here.

Doesn't add up.

So in your view, anyone pointing out the terrible treatment of humans in the name of Allah is an intolerant bigot yeah? I should just ignore it eh?

Nope, not at all.

I am not in any way opposed to pointing out the terrible treatment of humans by foreign dictatorships, theocratic or otherwise. By all means, point out their evil. Shout it from the rooftops. I agree with you totally.

Where I part company with you is where you think that our response to seeing a minority persecuted by the intolerant majority in Pakistan should be that we should become more intolerant and persecute our minorities likewise.

Have I actually said anything here derogatory towards Islam or informed you of the laws under Islamic rule?

Nope, you're clever enough not to come out and be explicit in your bigotry.

Nonetheless, the subtext is clear enough. You've posted numerous threads about various crimes committed by Muslims. You haven't posted a single thread about crimes committed by non-Muslims. I think we can read between the lines and see what you're trying to tell us.

Now for anyone who's minds are not tied up with rules on what they allow themselves to think or say, they might see something else at work here. I would say that Pakistan is beginning to reform some of the more barbaric Islamic laws due to foreign influence. Something for the lefties to shout about but not one of those dopey fucks thought about that.

I wish you were as open-minded as you pretend to be. Here's something for you to chew on. Prior to independence, the Muslims of the Indian subcontinent were among the world's least radical and most secular Muslims. Had India been founded along secular lines, they may have stayed that way. But Gandhi and Nehru whipped up Hindu tribal loyalties, and India's Muslims began to retreat into the idea of partition. The violence that followed was old fashioned medieval butchery.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/06/29/the-great-divide-books-dalrymple

Across the Indian subcontinent, communities that had coexisted for almost a millennium attacked each other in a terrifying outbreak of sectarian violence, with Hindus and Sikhs on one side and Muslims on the other—a mutual genocide as unexpected as it was unprecedented. In Punjab and Bengal—provinces abutting India’s borders with West and East Pakistan, respectively—the carnage was especially intense, with massacres, arson, forced conversions, mass abductions, and savage sexual violence. Some seventy-five thousand women were raped, and many of them were then disfigured or dismembered.

Nisid Hajari, in “Midnight’s Furies” (Houghton Mifflin Harcourt), his fast-paced new narrative history of Partition and its aftermath, writes, “Gangs of killers set whole villages aflame, hacking to death men and children and the aged while carrying off young women to be raped. Some British soldiers and journalists who had witnessed the Nazi death camps claimed Partition’s brutalities were worse: pregnant women had their breasts cut off and babies hacked out of their bellies; infants were found literally roasted on spits.”

There's a straight line from the trauma of the Partition riots to Pakistan's extremism today. Sadly, intolerance breeds more intolerance and hate breeds more hate. Some of the survivors of the Partition riots are still alive today. Many of their children are. Hate feeds hate feeds hate, until someone says, "No more."

No religion has a monopoly on persecution. Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Christians, and Buddhists have all persecuted various minorities is various countries. Go back through history and it's one religious war or pogrom or genocide after another. Only the triad of science, atheism, and liberalism offers a way out.

Until Voltaire brought Europe out of its horror, we went through 300 years of gruesome wars between Catholic and Protestant. Before that we had 500 years of Crusades, and before that we had 600 years of burning of heretics, and before that we had 200 years of feeding Christians to the lions.

[The ram]

You do realise that there was no Muslims in India once upon a time?

Gotta love your " Muslims are the true victim" rhetoric though, pure gold.

[The ram]

Britain have refused to give Bibi asylum so as not to upset our Pakistani population.
Which is basically admitting that we have our very own home grown extremist population, great eh. Holland has offered her a safe haven, obviously their Moroccan population aren't as extreme as our Pakistani population.

[Dukasaur]

You do realise that there was no Muslims in India once upon a time?

Gotta love your " Muslims are the true victim" rhetoric though, pure gold.

If that's all you got from it, you're just as shallow and vapid as you seem.

You do realize there were no Christians in Britain once upon a time? That's the thing with populations, they do tend to change over time.

[GoranZ]

Or he only says that Muslims in non-Muslim countries should be treated same as Muslims treat non-Muslims in countries with Muslim majority. Its fair opinion.

I'm not sure what you mean by "fair". If you mean some generic platitude like "everyone has a right to his opinion" then yes, fair enough, he has a right to his opinion like everyone else. Personally, I don't much like that phrase. While it's trivially true that everyone has a right to his opinion, it's a phrase that's often meant to say that all opinions are equally valid, which is nonsense. Illogical opinions deserve to be criticized for being illogical.

It is not logical that our response to evil regimes overseas should be to make our own regime more evil. It's like seeing the schizophrenic across the street punching himself in the head and deciding that you want to punch yourself in the head also.

You are deliberately avoiding the point of the conversation...

In picture


So basically if a person goes over for dinner to Muslim's house he needs to have bomb suite for him self. If his Muslim visit him back all his family members need bomb suits.
Muslims need to change or to be changed by force. Which path they will chose is up to them. As simple as that.

[armati]

Does a muslim sex doll blow itself up?

[The ram]

You do realise that there was no Muslims in India once upon a time?

Gotta love your " Muslims are the true victim" rhetoric though, pure gold.

If that's all you got from it, you're just as shallow and vapid as you seem.

You do realize there were no Christians in Britain once upon a time? That's the thing with populations, they do tend to change over time.

Yes, I agree and that change is normally brought about by bloodshed. And as for me being shallow and vapid, it's not me that falls for the emotional codswallop. I like to deal with facts.

[armati]

The Partition of India was the division of British India in 1947 which accompanied the creation of two independent dominions, India and Pakistan. ... The two self-governing countries of Pakistan and India legally came into existence at midnight on 14–15 August 1947.
Deaths‎: ‎Up to 2 million, 14 million displaced Date‎: ‎August 1947

History of Pakistan - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Pakistan

Pakistan history goes back 45,000 years. So much for people only being around since the last ice age.

[Dukasaur]

Who ever told you people have only been around since the last Ice Age?

[armati]

Really?

Christians figure we have only been here 5-6k years, some figure since the last ice age about 10k years.

Out of interest, thats one reason the cuneiform tablets have been kept "under wraps".

Ancient Humans Lived in China 2.1 Million Years Ago - The Atlantic
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/arc ... ../564896/
Jul 11, 2018 - An ancient human skull from Jebel Irhoud ... “We have shown that the earliest evidence from outside Africa is at least 2.1 million years old, and therefore 250,000 ... They're now saying the oldest sites are 2.1 million years old.

[riskllama]

lol, christians...

[Dukasaur]

Really?

Christians figure we have only been here 5-6k years, some figure since the last ice age about 10k years.

Out of interest, thats one reason the cuneiform tablets have been kept "under wraps".

Ancient Humans Lived in China 2.1 Million Years Ago - The Atlantic
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/arc ... ../564896/
Jul 11, 2018 - An ancient human skull from Jebel Irhoud ... “We have shown that the earliest evidence from outside Africa is at least 2.1 million years old, and therefore 250,000 ... They're now saying the oldest sites are 2.1 million years old.

At least 2 million years old. Could be quite a bit older than that.

Yeah, there's a few Biblical literalists who think man is only 5.5K years old, but even most Christians aren't Biblical literalists. I don't think we have any around here. We do have some Bible thumpers, but I think the last literalist was Universal Creepo, and we got rid of him a while back.

[Dukasaur]

You do realise that there was no Muslims in India once upon a time?

Gotta love your " Muslims are the true victim" rhetoric though, pure gold.

If that's all you got from it, you're just as shallow and vapid as you seem.

You do realize there were no Christians in Britain once upon a time? That's the thing with populations, they do tend to change over time.

Yes, I agree and that change is normally brought about by bloodshed. And as for me being shallow and vapid, it's not me that falls for the emotional codswallop. I like to deal with facts.

It is you who falls for the emotional codswallop. Mindless tribalism and hating of people for the historical coincidence that they were born into a different tribe than your own, is precisely and absolutely emotional codswallop. Your owners whip tap into the deepest and most primitive part of your mind and cynically exploit those dark instinctive fears of 'the other', and like a mindless automaton you will participate in the Two Minute Hate on a regular basis, and send your children off to go murder other children in all kinds of deserts and swamps on all kinds of foolish pretexts.

I gather that's not what you meant. You meant to insult the fact that liberals show compassion for their fellow man. Guilty as charged. If there is a choice to be made between too much compassion and too much hate, I'll gladly choose too much compassion, even if it does sometimes miss the mark of realism. The right has ruled far too long. Seven thousand years of ceaseless war and oppression, and nothing but the promise of more of the same tomorrow. It's time to give the left a chance.

[The ram]

You do realise that there was no Muslims in India once upon a time?

Gotta love your " Muslims are the true victim" rhetoric though, pure gold.

If that's all you got from it, you're just as shallow and vapid as you seem.

You do realize there were no Christians in Britain once upon a time? That's the thing with populations, they do tend to change over time.

Yes, I agree and that change is normally brought about by bloodshed. And as for me being shallow and vapid, it's not me that falls for the emotional codswallop. I like to deal with facts.

It is you who falls for the emotional codswallop. Mindless tribalism and hating of people for the historical coincidence that they were born into a different tribe than your own, is precisely and absolutely emotional codswallop. Your owners whip tap into the deepest and most primitive part of your mind and cynically exploit those dark instinctive fears of 'the other', and like a mindless automaton you will participate in the Two Minute Hate on a regular basis, and send your children off to go murder other children in all kinds of deserts and swamps on all kinds of foolish pretexts.

I gather that's not what you meant. You meant to insult the fact that liberals show compassion for their fellow man. Guilty as charged. If there is a choice to be made between too much compassion and too much hate, I'll gladly choose too much compassion, even if it does sometimes miss the mark of realism. The right has ruled far too long. Seven thousand years of ceaseless war and oppression, and nothing but the promise of more of the same tomorrow. It's time to give the left a chance.

You are probably a nice person albeit a thoroughly misguided and naive one.

Ps.... I can sense that you're getting angry. You talk about war being a horrific event but I'll bet you and many like you would gladly see force used to further the pathetic beliefs that you talk about. A one world army would unite everyone eh