Conquer Club

What about keep the last neutral as random...instead of having the capitals only accessible via BRNO or the 3 letter territory it is in you could make capitals attack and be attacked by any town in there respective area (SR/CR)

capitals could be assaulted not only from regions (three letters), but also from towns.

Praha - StČK, Benešov, Kladno, Plzeň (via highway)
Bratislava - ZSK, Trenčín, Komárno, Nitra and Brno (via highway) - therefore Brno must start as neutral

Oneyed

Oneyed wrote:

chapcrap wrote:Maybe to combat the bonuses that will happen, you could start the terts with 2 instead of 3.

sorry, I do not understand you...

Have all of the territories for the players start with 2 troops instead of 3 troops. It will make it a little more difficult to to attack on the first turn. That's what I meant. The neutrals could still start with 3.

Oneyed wrote:capitals could be assaulted not only from regions (three letters), but also from towns.

Praha - StČK, Benešov, Kladno, Plzeň (via highway)
Bratislava - ZSK, Trenčín, Komárno, Nitra and Brno (via highway) - therefore Brno must start as neutral

Oneyed

Could you better explain all of the borders/connections?

chapcrap wrote: Have all of the territories for the players start with 2 troops instead of 3 troops. It will make it a little more difficult to to attack on the first turn. That's what I meant. The neutrals could still start with 3.

sounds good to me.

chapcrap wrote: Could you better explain all of the borders/connections?

in the bottom right legend is wrote:
Towns - adjacent inside kraj and with region
Highway - connects towns and capitals

so for example: Bratislava, Trenčín, Komárno, Nitra, ZSK (region) are connected inside orange kraj. Bratislava is also connected with Brno via highway and Trenčín is also connected with Žilina via highway. ZSK is also connected with SSK and JMK.

Oneyed

Oneyed wrote:

chapcrap wrote:Could you better explain all of the borders/connections?

in the bottom right legend is wrote:
Towns - adjacent inside kraj and with region
Highway - connects towns and capitals

so for example: Bratislava, Trenčín, Komárno, Nitra, ZSK (region) are connected inside orange kraj. Bratislava is also connected with Brno via highway and Trenčín is also connected with Žilina via highway. ZSK is also connected with SSK and JMK.

Oneyed

Thank you.

What's the next step

Jippd wrote:What's the next step

good question

so I have some questions on skilled mapmakers and blue guys:
1, is graphics fine now?
2, are explanations clear enough?
3, is needed any change with bonuses?
4, or what more is needed to do?

Oneyed

Oneyed wrote:

Jippd wrote:What's the next step

good question

so I have some questions on skilled mapmakers and blue guys:
1, is graphics fine now?
2, are explanations clear enough?
3, is needed any change with bonuses?
4, or what more is needed to do?

Oneyed

for question 1, graphics (blue stamp) gets full attention after you got the green stamp, so dont worry bout that now.
for rest Im sure your maps gameplay are getting studied by formal staff so you can move on to next stage. (patience is the most importend thing for mapmakers )

Jippd wrote:Why make BRNO neutral? It would make the towns in it stuck behind that neutral and useless

There are no towns stuck behind it. Granted, being neutral would impede progress on the highway, but that is, if I understand correctly, part of the mapmaker's intention.

But if you hold the JMK, you completely surround Brno and can go to any of the towns around it.

Dukasaur wrote:

Jippd wrote:Why make BRNO neutral? It would make the towns in it stuck behind that neutral and useless

There are no towns stuck behind it. Granted, being neutral would impede progress on the highway, but that is, if I understand correctly, part of the mapmaker's intention.

Brno must start neutral because it is the fifth region which could assault Bratislava (and there will be four regions which could assault Praha). also because highway connection Praha - Benešov - Brno - Bratislava.

Dukasaur wrote: But if you hold the JMK, you completely surround Brno and can go to any of the towns around it.

no. Brno is adjacent with JMK, but also with Benešov, Bratislava and Jihlava.

Oneyed

here are versions with army numbers. I added only green, orange and yellow to see how they will be visible on the same coloured regions. I think they look fine.
more important are neutral numbers - so how will be set up the starting positions. I see two possibilities here:

version 03 (with 3 regions coded as neutral for all games) set up by this scenario:
- 8 players game: 4 regions for each
- 7 players game: 4 regions for each
- 6 players game: 5 regions for each
- 5 players game: 6 regions for each

here is big chance that one or more players will hold any bonus:
- 4 players game: 8 regions for each
- 3 players game: 10 regions for each
- 1 v 1 game: 16 regions each

version 11 (with 11 regions coded as neutral for all games) set up by this scenario:
- 8 players game: 3 regions for each
- 7 players game: 3 regions for each
- 6 players game: 4 regions for each
- 5 players game: 4 regions for each
- 4 players game: 6 regions for each

here is again big chance that any player (s) will start with any bonus
- 3 players game: 8 regions for each
- 1 v 1 game: 12 regions for each

I could change Towns bonus from +1 for any 4 to +1 for any 5 if this helps.

Oneyed

I think your region count is off using there golden numbers...first version is 3 neutrals coded...leaves 32 regions(your entire map is 35 regions right now)

http://wcforums.org/foundry/stuff/Golden%20Numbers.pdf

That makes it:
32 regions:
2 or 3 players: 10 each 2 neutrals
4 players: 8 each 0 neutrals
5 players: 6 each 2 neutrals
6 players: 5 each 2 neutrals
7 players: 4 each 4 neutrals
8 players: 4 each 0 neutrals

I think changing towns to +1 for every five may fix the problem for 1 v 1 though it might not be bad with +1 for every four as is since you start with 10 regions

thanks Jippd, but what exactly are these golden numbers? something like recommendation for map makers about numbers of starting positions?
32 starting positions for players sounds fine, but 24 would help in games with 4 and less players.

here is more opinions needed.

Oneyed

Oneyed wrote:thanks Jippd, but what exactly are these golden numbers? something like recommendation for map makers about numbers of starting positions?
32 starting positions for players sounds fine, but 24 would help in games with 4 and less players.

here is more opinions needed.

Oneyed

You can find what the golden numbers are and the description of them in the Official Conquer Club Mapmaker Handbook.

The point is, you shouldn't have players start with a number of territories divisible by 3 that is 12 or higher. This gives too much of an advantage to the first player, because he can drop another player to a lower territory bonus.

However, all numbers under 36 are golden, so it's a moot point here.

Still, 32 would be better, as it's always better to have less neutrals on a map (other than conquest maps).

Oneyed wrote:thanks Jippd, but what exactly are these golden numbers? something like recommendation for map makers about numbers of starting positions?
32 starting positions for players sounds fine, but 24 would help in games with 4 and less players.

here is more opinions needed.

Oneyed

I also think that the number of starting positions has to be the same regardless of how many players are in the game. So you can't have 24 for 4 or less players and 32 for 5 or more players for example. You have to pick one thing and stick with it I think

thanks guys for advices.
so we have 35 regions, 3 of them will be everytime codded as neutral - Praha, Bratislava, Brno. this gives to us 32 regions.

now become a question about Towns bonus. +1 for any 4 is fine or will be better to chenge it to +1 for any 5?

Oneyed

Oneyed wrote:now become a question about Towns bonus. +1 for any 4 is fine or will be better to chenge it to +1 for any 5?

Oneyed

IMHO, I think either one would do, at the same time I do lean a little more to +1 for every 4.

I like +1 for every 4 for now..otherwise I think it would be hard to get the town bonus in singles (not 1 v 1)/dubs/trips/quads....if it is a big problem once u go to beta it could be easy to change that from 4 to 5

isaiah40 wrote:

Oneyed wrote:now become a question about Towns bonus. +1 for any 4 is fine or will be better to chenge it to +1 for any 5?

Oneyed

IMHO, I think either one would do, at the same time I do lean a little more to +1 for every 4.

Jippd wrote:I like +1 for every 4 for now..otherwise I think it would be hard to get the town bonus in singles (not 1 v 1)/dubs/trips/quads....if it is a big problem once u go to beta it could be easy to change that from 4 to 5

so we are ready for gameplay? and move this one next?

Oneyed

Looks good to me

one small thing, could you set up your first post headline like this pls ?

" Fragmentation of CSFR [11 Mar 2012] PG 1/13 - ready to gameplay?"

the PG 1/13 tells us on witch page your latest updated map is.

some never update the first page with the latest image, then you have to search the entire thread for the last image. (exaggeration promotes the understanding)

I also like the +1 for every 4.

I'm having a small issue with the bonus structure. The way its currently set up, holding 2 kraj in the CR (two towns and the region) yields a +4 for 6 total regions. In the SR, holding 1 kraj (three cities and the region) you get a +2 for a total of 4 regions. Does this seem off to anyone else? Maybe the SR kraj bonus should be increased to 3?

In a 1v1 game with each player dropping 16 regions, it seems the likelihood of dropping at least a town bonus, and possibly even a kraje bonus is pretty high. If first turn drops that bonus, he could possibly get his opponent under 12 regions before he even has a chance to play.

nolefan5311 wrote:I'm having a small issue with the bonus structure. The way its currently set up, holding 2 kraj in the CR (two towns and the region) yields a +4 for 6 total regions. In the SR, holding 1 kraj (three cities and the region) you get a +2 for a total of 4 regions. Does this seem off to anyone else? Maybe the SR kraj bonus should be increased to 3?

In a 1v1 game with each player dropping 16 regions, it seems the likelihood of dropping at least a town bonus, and possibly even a kraje bonus is pretty high. If first turn drops that bonus, he could possibly get his opponent under 12 regions before he even has a chance to play.

Or decrease the CR 2 kraje bonus to 3 since increasing throws off the gameplay in 1 v 1 more. I think a bonus of +2 for 4 regions (SR Kraj)...is acceptable especially because once you control all the towns there is only one defense point. So the ratio there is 1 troop for every two regions. If you change CR bonus to +3 for every two kraje it is +3 troops and 6 regions. Also a ratio of 1 troop for every two regions.

As far as your comment on the drop for 1 v 1 using the CC golden numbers it says with 32 regions 1 v 1 would be 10 regions each to start with. So that might change your outlook on that part. (assuming this golden numbers is right)

Jippd wrote:

nolefan5311 wrote:I'm having a small issue with the bonus structure. The way its currently set up, holding 2 kraj in the CR (two towns and the region) yields a +4 for 6 total regions. In the SR, holding 1 kraj (three cities and the region) you get a +2 for a total of 4 regions. Does this seem off to anyone else? Maybe the SR kraj bonus should be increased to 3?

Or decrease the CR 2 kraje bonus to 3 since increasing throws off the gameplay in 1 v 1 more. I think a bonus of +2 for 4 regions (SR Kraj)...is acceptable especially because once you control all the towns there is only one defense point. So the ratio there is 1 troop for every two regions. If you change CR bonus to +3 for every two kraje it is +3 troops and 6 regions. Also a ratio of 1 troop for every two regions.

good point here. I agree more with +3 for 2 kraje in CR. Jippd, you forget highway - each kraj in SR has one town connected by highway with town in another kraj - so if player holds kraj, hemust secure two points - region and town connected by highway.

Jippd wrote:

nolefan5311 wrote: In a 1v1 game with each player dropping 16 regions, it seems the likelihood of dropping at least a town bonus, and possibly even a kraje bonus is pretty high. If first turn drops that bonus, he could possibly get his opponent under 12 regions before he even has a chance to play.

As far as your comment on the drop for 1 v 1 using the CC golden numbers it says with 32 regions 1 v 1 would be 10 regions each to start with. So that might change your outlook on that part. (assuming this golden numbers is right)

I think in 1 v 1 game will be more neutrals, so golden numbers would solve this.

thanks for inputs.

any more notices? anything more is needed to do?

Oneyed