Conquer Club

lord voldemort wrote:Keeping a close watch on this....Decent healthy discussion. We are talking about it behind the scenes too

Well, Im sorry I didnt post more on the game side...but it was hard enough to look through all of them the first time...let alone post them all...and again....Im not suggesting anything more than a warning...not to say they might not get more...and even only that if its deemed they are actually breaking rules.

Its without a doubt a tough situation, but I think its well worth resolving. I also suspected Id take some heat...but well...someone had to, and who better to really?

AAFitz wrote:

lord voldemort wrote:Keeping a close watch on this....Decent healthy discussion. We are talking about it behind the scenes too

Well, Im sorry I didnt post more on the game side...but it was hard enough to look through all of them the first time...let alone post them all...and again....Im not suggesting anything more than a warning...not to say they might not get more...and even only that if its deemed they are actually breaking rules.

Its without a doubt a tough situation, but I think its well worth resolving. I also suspected Id take some heat...but well...someone had to, and who better to really?

ya, its just the kind of thing that I shouldnt be deciding by myself.

Having just played a game vs the guy with 1 point I can say this.

Here is how it happens. A member joins CC, and does not look around. They just click on join a game. Most of the games on the first page are triples or quads with high ranked teams in them. Now what chance does this player have at winning? little to none. Before you know it points start going away fast. Thus they get down really low. Having partners who do not know much about the game and being outplayed time and time again. Remember noobs think it is a good idea to take a bonus and will even kill their teammates for it.

edited to add...

2009-10-08 20:48:42 - bfoufou, gideont4 won the game
2009-10-08 20:48:42 - the.killing.44 lost 62 points
2009-10-08 20:48:42 - tlane lost 62 points
2009-10-08 20:48:42 - bfoufou gained 62 points
2009-10-08 20:48:42 - gideont4 gained 62 points

Bruceswar wrote:edited to add...

2009-10-08 20:48:42 - bfoufou, gideont4 won the game
2009-10-08 20:48:42 - the.killing.44 lost 62 points
2009-10-08 20:48:42 - tlane lost 62 points
2009-10-08 20:48:42 - bfoufou gained 62 points
2009-10-08 20:48:42 - gideont4 gained 62 points

Yeah, yeah. But to be honest, the guy played like crap (as his pre-game score of 45—unbeknownst to me until about Round 2, when I checked his profile to see if he was on after he missed his first turn—shows). He kept a 20 trapped for at least 5 rounds to "maintain" his bonus, killed 2 neutrals to take a bonus that didn't mean anything, and overall made very very few sensible moves. I'll say it again: the entire game was thrown off—and lost—because he missed the first two rounds, then showed after we had just started to peg gideont over and over. Just because he won doesn't mean he played well.

Bruceswar wrote:Having just played a game vs the guy with 1 point I can say this.

Here is how it happens. A member joins CC, and does not look around. They just click on join a game. Most of the games on the first page are triples or quads with high ranked teams in them. Now what chance does this player have at winning? little to none. Before you know it points start going away fast. Thus they get down really low. Having partners who do not know much about the game and being outplayed time and time again. Remember noobs think it is a good idea to take a bonus and will even kill their teammates for it.

and here i have been blaming the dice....

Just as a rebuttal to people piling on fitz, I find it impossible to believe that any human being with a brain, as opposed to to a liquid-filled nubbin at the top of their spine, could get to under 100 points without intentionally trying to lose. If anyone would care to rebut, I'm all ears, but *news flash* people try and game the system. There are also people perfectly willing to lose for the sake of notoriety, for the ability to say "I'm the last person on the scoreboard!" And getting to one point? These are not people that are just plan bad at CC.

This is an issue that I feel should have been addressed by management a long time ago. Many players have had point resets or been otherwise disciplined for game throwing, and yet these players at the very bottom have been getting a free pass to sully the gaming experience of anyone unfortunate enough to end up in a game with them, whether thru deadbeating, team-killing, or suiciding. If someone doesn't want to play to win, I have no interest in playing against them, and I imagine I'm not alone in this sentiment.

Personally I think anyone that gets to 1 point is so egregiously gaming the system that they deserve a perma-ban, but that might be a bit excessive.

Bruceswar wrote:edited to add...

2009-10-08 20:48:42 - bfoufou, gideont4 won the game
2009-10-08 20:48:42 - the.killing.44 lost 62 points
2009-10-08 20:48:42 - tlane lost 62 points
2009-10-08 20:48:42 - bfoufou gained 62 points
2009-10-08 20:48:42 - gideont4 gained 62 points

Yes...as mentioned.. .now that bfoufou reached his goal of one point...he seems to have no trouble winning games now and Ill bet hes having a blast winning/stealing points from every player he beats from here on out... as all that have hit one point before, all seem to easily rebound back very quickly. We've allowed players to do this for years now... Its just time to stop it once and for all. Personally, I think we owe it to the players that these guys are stealing points from.

What you are ignoring, are all the teammates he killed along the way, and all the games he threw to get there.

I absolutely agree it theoretically possible that someone could get to one without throwing games...but after looking at these guys games...especially this ones....it is clear they were throwing games to do it.

I have no doubt that bfoufou will go on to win many games from here, and win lots of points doing it....since he threw games to get there in the first place. I admire that you think youre sticking up for a player that is just clueless and might have accidentally dropped to one, and didnt realize that all he had to do was maybe play 5 1v1 games to win 100 points....but in the end, you are really defending a cheater, who threw games which screwed over other players that were trying to win...and is now stealing points from players that do not deserve to lose so many.

All of these guys will rebound and I wouldnt be surprised if they get over 1000 at some point...certainly I give them the respect of being much more intelligent than you do. I just think they are breaking or circumventing the rules to do it...as many have in the past...and it undermines the entire scoring system...

It also undermines the cheating and abuse forum as far as throwing games...where people have literally been warned for throwing a few games, while these guys have been throwing many. And to suggest these guys are on turn one, killing one of their teammates territories with a three, game after game...in some attempt to get a bonus....after losing all of their points in every game...is just ridiculous.

The only reason they got away with it so long is, the people they were cheating, are the lowest players on the scoreboard that are actually trying. These are the guys you should be worried about. Not the cheaters throwing games for some fun which cheats their teammates, and the other honest players...and in the end, makes a mockery of the entire system. You are of course free to defend them...but Ill focus on defending the honest players from them myself.

Bruceswar wrote:Having just played a game vs the guy with 1 point I can say this.

Here is how it happens. A member joins CC, and does not look around. They just click on join a game. Most of the games on the first page are triples or quads with high ranked teams in them. Now what chance does this player have at winning? little to none. Before you know it points start going away fast. Thus they get down really low. Having partners who do not know much about the game and being outplayed time and time again. Remember noobs think it is a good idea to take a bonus and will even kill their teammates for it.

Well you are simply guessing hypothetically that because its theoretically possible to accidentally end up at one point...that this is what accidentally happened to these players. However...each of them played many games...they kill their teammates in many of them, and its clear they are joining games in which they obviously have no chance of winning, which is fine...except that they are killing their teammates...and not for bonuses...or some lack of knowledge of the game... these guys are cunning...and some of them more than others...and less blatent...but make no mistake...these guys are aiming for 1 point...they are breaking the rules to do it...as have many before them.....

hopefully, these will be the last to get there. I wish I kept pushing for this the last time the topic came up. Countless players would have been saved getting cheated by these guys, and those like them.

Great and interesting thread,

Aside from deliberate loser / struggling player which is big topic..another thing
Now I look at it again............if someone e.g 1,000 pt "?" plays and loses to a guy on 1 pt the 1 pointer guy gets 20,000 pts and becomes Conqueror and the highest ever pt scorer CC in history??

I can't possibly have worked that out right.

Please correct me.

Nipper

ok I will

no-one can lose more than 100 points. if the calculations say otherwise than the loss is limited to 100

your example is the very reason this rule is necessary

One suggestion might be, that players have an option of not playing anyone below (say) 400 points. This could default to yes - prevent players below 400 from joining my games.

then these players throwing games would run out of partners

the.killing.44 wrote:

Bruceswar wrote:edited to add...

2009-10-08 20:48:42 - bfoufou, gideont4 won the game
2009-10-08 20:48:42 - the.killing.44 lost 62 points
2009-10-08 20:48:42 - tlane lost 62 points
2009-10-08 20:48:42 - bfoufou gained 62 points
2009-10-08 20:48:42 - gideont4 gained 62 points

Yeah, yeah. But to be honest, the guy played like crap (as his pre-game score of 45—unbeknownst to me until about Round 2, when I checked his profile to see if he was on after he missed his first turn—shows). He kept a 20 trapped for at least 5 rounds to "maintain" his bonus, killed 2 neutrals to take a bonus that didn't mean anything, and overall made very very few sensible moves. I'll say it again: the entire game was thrown off—and lost—because he missed the first two rounds, then showed after we had just started to peg gideont over and over. Just because he won doesn't mean he played well.

That is the point, I looked and played awful, but that is to be expected. He got lucky to beat you but 99% of the time luck cannot make up for that kind of bad play.

AAFitz wrote:

Bruceswar wrote:Having just played a game vs the guy with 1 point I can say this.

Here is how it happens. A member joins CC, and does not look around. They just click on join a game. Most of the games on the first page are triples or quads with high ranked teams in them. Now what chance does this player have at winning? little to none. Before you know it points start going away fast. Thus they get down really low. Having partners who do not know much about the game and being outplayed time and time again. Remember noobs think it is a good idea to take a bonus and will even kill their teammates for it.

Well you are simply guessing hypothetically that because its theoretically possible to accidentally end up at one point...that this is what accidentally happened to these players. However...each of them played many games...they kill their teammates in many of them, and its clear they are joining games in which they obviously have no chance of winning, which is fine...except that they are killing their teammates...and not for bonuses...or some lack of knowledge of the game... these guys are cunning...and some of them more than others...and less blatent...but make no mistake...these guys are aiming for 1 point...they are breaking the rules to do it...as have many before them.....

hopefully, these will be the last to get there. I wish I kept pushing for this the last time the topic came up. Countless players would have been saved getting cheated by these guys, and those like them.

When I rejoined CC a few months ago after being away for a while, I decided to join a quads game because those were not around before I left. It just so happened that one of my teammates is one of the bottom five (Danger Mouse). As I recall, he had at least 500 points at that point. I'd like to submit Game 5264048 as support that it is entirely possible that he just joined whatever games he saw on the front page. Going through the game log, you can see that he just deployed and forted, which isn't necessarily a bad thing in a no spoils game. He never took a country. While his play wasn't necessarily helpful, it certainly wasn't that detrimental. I believe a combination of inexperienced and uncoordinated teammates, superior opponents, and disadvantageous drop led to our loss. By no means am I saying that Fitz is wrong in his assessment, this could be an anomaly, but it is an exception that I feel should be pointed out.

-deleted-

Bruceswar wrote:

the.killing.44 wrote:

Bruceswar wrote:edited to add...

2009-10-08 20:48:42 - bfoufou, gideont4 won the game
2009-10-08 20:48:42 - the.killing.44 lost 62 points
2009-10-08 20:48:42 - tlane lost 62 points
2009-10-08 20:48:42 - bfoufou gained 62 points
2009-10-08 20:48:42 - gideont4 gained 62 points

Yeah, yeah. But to be honest, the guy played like crap (as his pre-game score of 45—unbeknownst to me until about Round 2, when I checked his profile to see if he was on after he missed his first turn—shows). He kept a 20 trapped for at least 5 rounds to "maintain" his bonus, killed 2 neutrals to take a bonus that didn't mean anything, and overall made very very few sensible moves. I'll say it again: the entire game was thrown off—and lost—because he missed the first two rounds, then showed after we had just started to peg gideont over and over. Just because he won doesn't mean he played well.

That is the point, I looked and played awful, but that is to be expected. He got lucky to beat you but 99% of the time luck cannot make up for that kind of bad play.

the problem is, it isnt just bad play. its purposeful bad play, from players that have played well over 100 games...not 6 games. These are players that know exactly what they are doing and again...bfoufou has indeed started to win more since he hit one point.... this game doesnt even matter to the scope of this, because its obvious the games were thrown to get to 1 so he could hit one....AND... beat guys like th.44 which he will from now on...and essentially steal points in doing so.

safariguy5 wrote:

AAFitz wrote:

Bruceswar wrote:Having just played a game vs the guy with 1 point I can say this.

Here is how it happens. A member joins CC, and does not look around. They just click on join a game. Most of the games on the first page are triples or quads with high ranked teams in them. Now what chance does this player have at winning? little to none. Before you know it points start going away fast. Thus they get down really low. Having partners who do not know much about the game and being outplayed time and time again. Remember noobs think it is a good idea to take a bonus and will even kill their teammates for it.

Well you are simply guessing hypothetically that because its theoretically possible to accidentally end up at one point...that this is what accidentally happened to these players. However...each of them played many games...they kill their teammates in many of them, and its clear they are joining games in which they obviously have no chance of winning, which is fine...except that they are killing their teammates...and not for bonuses...or some lack of knowledge of the game... these guys are cunning...and some of them more than others...and less blatent...but make no mistake...these guys are aiming for 1 point...they are breaking the rules to do it...as have many before them.....

hopefully, these will be the last to get there. I wish I kept pushing for this the last time the topic came up. Countless players would have been saved getting cheated by these guys, and those like them.

When I rejoined CC a few months ago after being away for a while, I decided to join a quads game because those were not around before I left. It just so happened that one of my teammates is one of the bottom five (Danger Mouse). As I recall, he had at least 500 points at that point. I'd like to submit Game 5264048 as support that it is entirely possible that he just joined whatever games he saw on the front page. Going through the game log, you can see that he just deployed and forted, which isn't necessarily a bad thing in a no spoils game. He never took a country. While his play wasn't necessarily helpful, it certainly wasn't that detrimental. I believe a combination of inexperienced and uncoordinated teammates, superior opponents, and disadvantageous drop led to our loss. By no means am I saying that Fitz is wrong in his assessment, this could be an anomaly, but it is an exception that I feel should be pointed out.

I agree that in many of these games these guys dont have to do much to lose. I myself could easily lose all my points just by joining the right games....and not break any rules doing so. However, after looking through their games...it was obivous that when needed, they would attack their teammates, with the only possible goal of throwing the game. I admit they arent just attaking their teammates in every turn of every game...that would have been seen long ago....though in some games, they are actually doing just that...and have received the teammate killer tag for doing so. For the rest of the games, they simply have to drop and not attack...and the other team can take it from there...

It is in its own way an ingenious way of doing it..because the log will never show conclusively. It takes many factors to piece it together, and its the fact that it has happened for so long...and so regularly, and that they all have smashed their teammates along the way of this massive 1000 point drop, that makes it nearly beyond certain that its on purpose...and since its obvious some of the games are obviously thrown in doing it...it means they threw games, and are all guilty of cheating.

The only other possible explanation, is that one of them truly does have some kind of learning disability...which is well within possibility...and I can only hope that is not the case....and hope they simply cant fully understand this thread. I have actually stumbled on a few players in CC that have indeed been somewhat challenged...and accidentally posted against them too quickly, before realizing it. I really hope this isnt the case here...but am very sure after looking at all the factors...that these guys are more than capable of making a strategy, and sticking to it.... more so than anyone is giving them credit for actually in their attempt to defend them.

Again, Im not accusing them of throwing every game to get here....only some of the games....I suspect they are more letting the other ones lose also....but surely cant make a real accusation there, since it will always be arguable...however...after finding plenty of games where they are assassinating their teammates, and losing in so many games....and as bfoufou himself showed...only till he hit 1 point...and then was able to start an essential winning spree....I think its fairly clear...

I also dont think its that big a deal, they are just taking advantage of an opportunity to have some fun....I just think it should be stopped, and now seems like a good time to do it. Even if all five of these guys really are that bad, and the most unlucky players ever to walk into CC....many have dumped points to get to 1, and its more than reasonable to assume more will continue to do so in the future. .

bfoufou, Danger Mouse, bigö, braveheartspirit, & africaboy 's accounts have all been suspended to prevent any further abuse of their positions on the scoreboard.

This is Lowballing, which is the intentional deadbeating/lack of competitive play in games to attain a score of 1 Point on the scoreboard. This is usually motivated by personal goals---it has the potential be overwhelmingly disastrous if said user attempts to "catapult" themselves to the upper scoreboard by getting 1 big win.

Please feel free to continue on with the healthy discussion. But for the time being this case is Closed. Marking as such and moving.

To any of the 5 accused above if you wish to discuss this any further please submit an E-Ticket.

Thanks,
King Sam

Aw. Too bad.


Props to africaboy for being the King's equal and opposite.

Props to AAFITZ. Guess it's not good to be at the bottom off CC.

Side note: has the yorkist been a member before? Seems to know more than a two game noob. Just an observation.

the yorkist was checked and Cleared of being a multi account at this time.

king sam wrote:bfoufou, Danger Mouse, bigö, braveheartspirit, & africaboy 's accounts have all been suspended to prevent any further abuse of their positions on the scoreboard.

This is Lowballing, which is the intentional deadbeating/lack of competitive play in games to attain a score of 1 Point on the scoreboard. This is usually motivated by personal goals---it has the potential be overwhelmingly disastrous if said user attempts to "catapult" themselves to the upper scoreboard by getting 1 big win.

Please feel free to continue on with the healthy discussion. But for the time being this case is Closed. Marking as such and moving.

To any of the 5 accused above if you wish to discuss this any further please submit an E-Ticket.

Thanks,
King Sam

C'mon seriously everyone, these guys had to have gone to 1 point on purpose. A one-eyed, farsighted orangutan, with downs-syndrome who's on 10 hits of acid couldn't get down to 1 point unless it was trying to.