Conquer Club

Alright. PMC, your response has satisfied me so my vote will be remaining off of you for now. Right now I'm rather tired so in the morning I will look more into the case(s) you presented in your post and also have a look into some of the people I found to be a tad scummy from the way they were hopping on your BW without much reason.

Ugh, these prolonged debates between experienced players on D1 annoy me... you just know it's going nowhere.

I don't really feel the case against PCM or PMC, both of them explained themselves well imo (also could you guys have more confusing nicknames, jeez).

I do find it interesting that the case on PMC seems quite similar to my case on jonty, only where my case went nowhere, the one on PMC got to L-3 pretty fast and received reactions like:

Some7hingCLEVER wrote:
i have a new found respect for you man lol finally someone does something to move the game along
unvote vote pmc for one this case is well thought out and is the best case today
two..because it has merit and we need some kind of pressure on him
three...because someone finally made another case

This seems slightly fishy, but maybe I suck at presenting cases or something, oh wellz.

Anyway, I still don't really see any slips in here, so I've got to stay with my gut on jonty. To recap:

jonty125 wrote:unvote looks like joking is over. I aren't going to vote zimmah, for not getting a joke; but if we get seriously desperate, I would move my vote for a lynch or a claim

wishy-washy

jonty125 wrote:Zimmah, do you have any reason not to believe freezie was joking?

instigating the BS case on zimmah when it was just dying down

jonty125 wrote:

pmchugh wrote: Had to look back to your reasons and I can explain this rather easily... I voted him in a protest vote and in the hope of getting answers.

Now it seems the deadline is looming and that I have been chosen as the random bandwagon for day 1, which I can say is a first. Sadly you are all hopelessly wrong, I am going to go and reread and post all my thoughts so that hopefully I can give you guys a better alternative. I really really don't want to have to claim.

Actually mod can we get a few days extension on this deadline? Most of day 1 has been pish but we are finally making progress?

L-2 claim time. We have 8 days, that should be enough and Doom did say he wouldn't give another extension.

hoping on PMC waggon and pushing for a claim.

Haggis_McMutton wrote:Ugh, these prolonged debates between experienced players on D1 annoy me... you just know it's going nowhere.

I don't really feel the case against PCM or PMC, both of them explained themselves well imo (also could you guys have more confusing nicknames, jeez).

I do find it interesting that the case on PMC seems quite similar to my case on jonty, only where my case went nowhere, the one on PMC got to L-3 pretty fast and received reactions like:

Some7hingCLEVER wrote:
i have a new found respect for you man lol finally someone does something to move the game along
unvote vote pmc for one this case is well thought out and is the best case today
two..because it has merit and we need some kind of pressure on him
three...because someone finally made another case

This seems slightly fishy, but maybe I suck at presenting cases or something, oh wellz.

Anyway, I still don't really see any slips in here, so I've got to stay with my gut on jonty. To recap:

jonty125 wrote:unvote looks like joking is over. I aren't going to vote zimmah, for not getting a joke; but if we get seriously desperate, I would move my vote for a lynch or a claim

wishy-washy

jonty125 wrote:Zimmah, do you have any reason not to believe freezie was joking?

instigating the BS case on zimmah when it was just dying down

jonty125 wrote:

pmchugh wrote: Had to look back to your reasons and I can explain this rather easily... I voted him in a protest vote and in the hope of getting answers.

Now it seems the deadline is looming and that I have been chosen as the random bandwagon for day 1, which I can say is a first. Sadly you are all hopelessly wrong, I am going to go and reread and post all my thoughts so that hopefully I can give you guys a better alternative. I really really don't want to have to claim.

Actually mod can we get a few days extension on this deadline? Most of day 1 has been pish but we are finally making progress?

L-2 claim time. We have 8 days, that should be enough and Doom did say he wouldn't give another extension.

hoping on PMC waggon and pushing for a claim.

the quote you posted was mostly a joke cause i was waiting for a better case to present itself so thats why i did that and i beliebe i said i would do that earlier in the game

Jonty never answered my question either:

strike wolf wrote:

jonty125 wrote:

strike wolf wrote:On top of Jonty's previous cases this post just looks like easy bandwagon hopping:

I was voting for the better case; the one with the most scumtells.

And what would you have to say to the fact that the main argument against PMC was also a major part on the case that had been made against you? Namely "beating a dead horse" with the whole Zimmah case.

Haggis_McMutton wrote:

jonty125 wrote: L-2 claim time. We have 8 days, that should be enough and Doom did say he wouldn't give another extension.

hoping on PMC waggon and pushing for a claim.

Well @ L-2, its normally claim time

strike wolf wrote:Jonty never answered my question either:

strike wolf wrote:

jonty125 wrote:

strike wolf wrote:On top of Jonty's previous cases this post just looks like easy bandwagon hopping:

I was voting for the better case; the one with the most scumtells.

And what would you have to say to the fact that the main argument against PMC was also a major part on the case that had been made against you? Namely "beating a dead horse" with the whole Zimmah case.

The case on PMC also is based on him saying "look at me I'm going against the grain" and then goes back to going with the grain.

You completely shifted the question. What you were saying was increasing the pressure on him, you never even hinted that you thought the case was poor and you offered no alternatives. What you claim to believe and the manner in which you posted are contradictory.

But no one was making an effort to try and explain what was wrong, just telling him he was wrong. That's what I was trying to do. I stopped because I realized that wasn't going to work. And offer alternatives? We were fresh out of the joke vote stage! Why am I obligated to provide an alternative, especially at such an early stage of the game?

I was asking what the benefits of mafia pushing a dead case were. That is what you are accusing me of doing to Zimmah (although I disagree) and I have yet to hear why this is scummy.

It's distracting. It's annoying. It helps no one at all. And if you dominate the discussion, you're the one who decides what we talk about. Hijack the game and town is helpless. Seems scummy to me. trollface.jpg

And so, when someone, like, oh... you, for instance, says something like this:

pmchugh wrote:p.s. @ everyone if you want to post about something else.. no one is stopping you.

I'm gonna go ahead and do it. Look what it got me. It's one of the things that say you're still doing what you're doing, but you've just shifted targets.

Your wording also assumes that mafia is the only opposition. That's never a safe thing to assume unless the game is small. This game isn't small enough for that.

Submarining is not the same as being inactive. Submarining is choosing to be inactive, i.e. reading the thread, knowing what is going on, having time to post and still not posting anything because you don't want to give anything away. Fircoal was inactive, you openly admitted to submarining.

[ent voice]Anything worth saying is worth taking a very long time to say[/ent voice]

Seriously, my good posts can take close to/upwards of an hour. If I don't have that much time to dedicate, I won't say anything.

But just for you, next time I come in here with nothing to say, I'll write the first word that pops into my head and "Seems scummy to me", and that'll be it.

Obviously giving advice is not an automatic mafia tell. You need to consider the manner, timing and way in which you give advice just as with every other possible tell. So yes, it was targeted at you specifically.

Well, that makes no sense whatsoever, but I'll humor you. Explain what exactly about my advice-giving suggests scumminess.

pancakemix wrote: But no one was making an effort to try and explain what was wrong, just telling him he was wrong. That's what I was trying to do. I stopped because I realized that wasn't going to work. And offer alternatives? We were fresh out of the joke vote stage! Why am I obligated to provide an alternative, especially at such an early stage of the game?

I actually agree with you on the underlined part, fair enough.

I was asking what the benefits of mafia pushing a dead case were. That is what you are accusing me of doing to Zimmah (although I disagree) and I have yet to hear why this is scummy.

It's distracting. It's annoying. It helps no one at all. And if you dominate the discussion, you're the one who decides what we talk about. Hijack the game and town is helpless. Seems scummy to me. trollface.jpg

I think you are vastly over stating the effect one player has in an 18 player game. I am hardly gonna sit there and think that I am gonna get away with distracting the town all the way to the end of the day. I was attracted attention myself and I knew it.

Haggis_McMutton wrote:Ugh, these prolonged debates between experienced players on D1 annoy me... you just know it's going nowhere.

I agree, this is going nowhere fast. unvote

I think you are vastly over stating the effect one player has in an 18 player game. I am hardly gonna sit there and think that I am gonna get away with distracting the town all the way to the end of the day. I was attracted attention myself and I knew it.

You'd be surprised. I've seen it more than a few times.

Ugh, these prolonged debates between experienced players on D1 annoy me... you just know it's going nowhere.

I don't really feel the case against PCM or PMC, both of them explained themselves well imo (also could you guys have more confusing nicknames, jeez).

True enough.

I was here first, that's all I'm gonna say.

Haggis_McMutton wrote:

jonty125 wrote:

pmchugh wrote: Had to look back to your reasons and I can explain this rather easily... I voted him in a protest vote and in the hope of getting answers.

Now it seems the deadline is looming and that I have been chosen as the random bandwagon for day 1, which I can say is a first. Sadly you are all hopelessly wrong, I am going to go and reread and post all my thoughts so that hopefully I can give you guys a better alternative. I really really don't want to have to claim.

Actually mod can we get a few days extension on this deadline? Most of day 1 has been pish but we are finally making progress?

L-2 claim time. We have 8 days, that should be enough and Doom did say he wouldn't give another extension.

hoping on PMC waggon and pushing for a claim.

I'm interested in your jonty case, but how are you getting from A to B on this last point here?

jonty125 wrote:The case on PMC also is based on him saying "look at me I'm going against the grain" and then goes back to going with the grain.

Alright, so what were you doing then?

jonty125 wrote:

Haggis_McMutton wrote:

jonty125 wrote: L-2 claim time. We have 8 days, that should be enough and Doom did say he wouldn't give another extension.

hoping on PMC waggon and pushing for a claim.

Well @ L-2, its normally claim time

strike wolf wrote:Jonty never answered my question either:

strike wolf wrote:

jonty125 wrote:

strike wolf wrote:On top of Jonty's previous cases this post just looks like easy bandwagon hopping:

I was voting for the better case; the one with the most scumtells.

And what would you have to say to the fact that the main argument against PMC was also a major part on the case that had been made against you? Namely "beating a dead horse" with the whole Zimmah case.

The case on PMC also is based on him saying "look at me I'm going against the grain" and then goes back to going with the grain.

Did he really go back to going with the grain? Only way I see him back to going with the grain is to the extent he was trying to defend himself. I still feel your vote on him was a cheap bandwagon vote.

Well I don't remember all the roles in the first game but the last pokemon game had a lot of third party and a recruiter both aligned with town and an anti-town recruiter.

Gah, a mountain of a D1. I am strongly against lynching PMC or PCM, both out of principle due to their potential added value to the town (as town obviously) and due to the fact that they have more the capable defended themselves against their detractors.

I haven't got a new case to drive myself, but I would like to look to those who have waggoned the worst on the past 3 cases. If someone else doesn't do an analysis of that, I will try to get it done sometime this weekend.

UNVOTE PMC he's been keeping his cool and has seemed to be more town. i'll have more to post later

pancakemix wrote:

Haggis_McMutton wrote:

jonty125 wrote:

pmchugh wrote: Had to look back to your reasons and I can explain this rather easily... I voted him in a protest vote and in the hope of getting answers.

Now it seems the deadline is looming and that I have been chosen as the random bandwagon for day 1, which I can say is a first. Sadly you are all hopelessly wrong, I am going to go and reread and post all my thoughts so that hopefully I can give you guys a better alternative. I really really don't want to have to claim.

Actually mod can we get a few days extension on this deadline? Most of day 1 has been pish but we are finally making progress?

L-2 claim time. We have 8 days, that should be enough and Doom did say he wouldn't give another extension.

hoping on PMC waggon and pushing for a claim.

I'm interested in your jonty case, but how are you getting from A to B on this last point here?

Yeah, I explained that poorly, those are actually 2 points.

He was the 5th vote on the waggon, I believe, and strike has been making the easy bandwaggoning point, I was re-iterating that by saying he hopped on the waggon.

And then I quoted the later post where he was pushing for a claim even though pmc had very reasonably stated that he was attempting to avoid that by re-reading and posting his thoughts.

There is bound to be scum somewhere on my wagon, I have to say I am a little drained in this game atm though. I don't really like my list either, I bet its completely upside down

I see a growing trend into ending the PMC BW and starting one on Jonty. I'll say that Jonty always strikes me as the kind of guy that will sheep votes, so he's not more scummy in this particular game for doing something he always does. If we are going Jonty in a move that from my point of view seems to be a policy lynch, why not VS instead? To me VS's meta is more anti-town than Jonty's and would therefore make for a slightly better PL.

As far as finding behaviour that actually makes me think someone is more likely to be scum than your average player, I'm still at a loss.

Nagerous, can you clarify why you did not vote PMC after mentioning your opinion on him shifted 180º ("U-turn")?

Zimmah, if you had to unvote PMC, who would you vote next? If the answer is anything other than Freezie, please explain why.

Kratos, how do you feel about Clever and Jonty's votes on PMC?

Yoshi, massprod please? Thanks in advance!

Hey folks.

I just need to say that we have had a family emergency and I have not been able to be active. I will be away this weekend and hopfully things will go back to by monday. I will try and follow along as best i can and post once a day.

Rodion wrote: Yoshi, massprod please? Thanks in advance!

There was a prod Tuesday. Weekends aren't a great time, but one will come on Monday.

Nagerous has asked to be replaced.

Well, been a while I posted in here, and the only excuse I got for that is that I completly forgot to do it..-.- Yea I suck. I've been re-reading and I'll need to do it again for me to say something as there is a lot going on...But for now, I simply copied the ''accusations'' thrown at me, which I shall answer. MY next post will be more thought of:

ghostly447 wrote: *Freezie and VS connection??? Freezie's random vote on VS for "The sake of lynching someone" still not removed for a VERY long time.

But my vote isn't supposed to be on VS for a very long time. If you think that's random, that's fine. I don't. Yea it's out of my habits, cause normally I go all crusader on the guys who starts a semi-major BW on an inactive. Beside shield single vote on tails, this hasn't happen here But yea, it's VS, so who knows..

Rodion wrote: Freezie believes Zimmah answered PMC's question (I disagree). Zimmah voted PCM for supposedly insisting on something that was settled (I don't think it was settled). Shield also votes because of the dead horse beating thing. Clever sheeped Kratos. Jonty didn't mention who he sheeped, but it's clear that he sheeped. Eldario's vote might actually be legit as well, but I'd have to reread what PMC said about his vote on Zimmah.
tl;dr: he is being BWed because you guys were ready to move on and he (imo, correctly) wasn't.

And I still say I beleive PMC's question has been answered, directly or indirectly. Zimmah stated his oppinion before, and PMC asked for his oppinion after. If PMC had stated his question '' Did you change your oppinion about Freezie'' then it would be a completly different thing. For now, I keep to my words.

pmchugh wrote:freezie- Quick turn around from sticking up for me to suspected me- I don't understand why. Also attempted to push third party claim onto zimmah, this is often done by mafia when they see suspicious behaviour. This was reduced by the fact it was "lyncher" that he chose but he is still not completely off the hook IMO.

And I aknowledged the fact that it may not be a lyncher after all. I also kept saying I didn't think Zimmah scum. ''quick turn around'' doesn't really seems to make sense when I do beleive you were trying too hard on someone I doubt to be scum.

Rodion wrote:I see a growing trend into ending the PMC BW and starting one on Jonty. I'll say that Jonty always strikes me as the kind of guy that will sheep votes, so he's not more scummy in this particular game for doing something he always does. If we are going Jonty in a move that from my point of view seems to be a policy lynch, why not VS instead? To me VS's meta is more anti-town than Jonty's and would therefore make for a slightly better PL.

As far as finding behaviour that actually makes me think someone is more likely to be scum than your average player, I'm still at a loss.

Nagerous, can you clarify why you did not vote PMC after mentioning your opinion on him shifted 180º ("U-turn")?

Zimmah, if you had to unvote PMC, who would you vote next? If the answer is anything other than Freezie, please explain why.

Kratos, how do you feel about Clever and Jonty's votes on PMC?

Yoshi, massprod please? Thanks in advance!

not sure, probably VS because, even though he always acts scummy, he's pretty silent this time.

pancakemix wrote: Alright, so what were you doing then?

Yes, I was going with the grain; but I wasn't been a hypocrite.

zimmah wrote:

Rodion wrote:I see a growing trend into ending the PMC BW and starting one on Jonty. I'll say that Jonty always strikes me as the kind of guy that will sheep votes, so he's not more scummy in this particular game for doing something he always does. If we are going Jonty in a move that from my point of view seems to be a policy lynch, why not VS instead? To me VS's meta is more anti-town than Jonty's and would therefore make for a slightly better PL.

As far as finding behaviour that actually makes me think someone is more likely to be scum than your average player, I'm still at a loss.

Nagerous, can you clarify why you did not vote PMC after mentioning your opinion on him shifted 180º ("U-turn")?

Zimmah, if you had to unvote PMC, who would you vote next? If the answer is anything other than Freezie, please explain why.

Kratos, how do you feel about Clever and Jonty's votes on PMC?

Yoshi, massprod please? Thanks in advance!

not sure, probably VS because, even though he always acts scummy, he's pretty silent this time.

I'm only silent because I have nothing to say, really. It's all been junk and BS so far. I may say something soon, though.

-Sully

Rodion wrote:Kratos, how do you feel about Clever and Jonty's votes on PMC?

Clever is definitely the one that strikes me as the scummier of the two. That might just be due to I've been in games with jonty before but not with clever. For example jonty did this stuff in the first pokemon mafia and ended up being the town's poison doctor if I recall properly.

As you can see I mentioned a few pages back clever continues to post fluff to appear active and even when he is posting with "substance" it's usually just piggybacking what others have said. I don't want to vote him until I reread and put a solid case together or until someone else does the same but I'm awfully busy this weekend so that probably won't happen until Monday at the earliest.

kratos644 wrote:

Rodion wrote:Kratos, how do you feel about Clever and Jonty's votes on PMC?

Clever is definitely the one that strikes me as the scummier of the two. That might just be due to I've been in games with jonty before but not with clever. For example jonty did this stuff in the first pokemon mafia and ended up being the town's poison doctor if I recall properly.

As you can see I mentioned a few pages back clever continues to post fluff to appear active and even when he is posting with "substance" it's usually just piggybacking what others have said. I don't want to vote him until I reread and put a solid case together or until someone else does the same but I'm awfully busy this weekend so that probably won't happen until Monday at the earliest.

I was town doctor, who was posioned.

freezie wrote:And I still say I beleive PMC's question has been answered, directly or indirectly. Zimmah stated his oppinion before, and PMC asked for his oppinion after. If PMC had stated his question '' Did you change your oppinion about Freezie'' then it would be a completly different thing. For now, I keep to my words.

All my posts were along this lines, maybe I didn't phrase it specifically in that way but I repeatedly said things like he was being bull-headed, he was not retracting his vote and more so he did not retract his suspicions on you. I was clearly accusing him of not changing his opinion.

kratos644 wrote:

Rodion wrote:Kratos, how do you feel about Clever and Jonty's votes on PMC?

Clever is definitely the one that strikes me as the scummier of the two. That might just be due to I've been in games with jonty before but not with clever. For example jonty did this stuff in the first pokemon mafia and ended up being the town's poison doctor if I recall properly.

As you can see I mentioned a few pages back clever continues to post fluff to appear active and even when he is posting with "substance" it's usually just piggybacking what others have said. I don't want to vote him until I reread and put a solid case together or until someone else does the same but I'm awfully busy this weekend so that probably won't happen until Monday at the earliest.

and as you can see i promptly responded explaining that i was one of the active pursuers in the zimmah case. and quite frankly im doing the same thing half the damn game is doing being silent. for example VS who hasnt posted for a long ass time and then came in a few post ago to tell you he wasnt gonna talk. and thats exactly what i am doing but i have the curtesy to say one of two things. when i see something worth saying anything then maybe ill say something but right now people are still bickering back and forth. and its annoying and honestly reading it hurts my ears..i have an ear infection.

Some7hingCLEVER wrote:

kratos644 wrote:

Rodion wrote:Kratos, how do you feel about Clever and Jonty's votes on PMC?

Clever is definitely the one that strikes me as the scummier of the two. That might just be due to I've been in games with jonty before but not with clever. For example jonty did this stuff in the first pokemon mafia and ended up being the town's poison doctor if I recall properly.

As you can see I mentioned a few pages back clever continues to post fluff to appear active and even when he is posting with "substance" it's usually just piggybacking what others have said. I don't want to vote him until I reread and put a solid case together or until someone else does the same but I'm awfully busy this weekend so that probably won't happen until Monday at the earliest.

and as you can see i promptly responded explaining that i was one of the active pursuers in the zimmah case. and quite frankly im doing the same thing half the damn game is doing being silent. for example VS who hasnt posted for a long ass time and then came in a few post ago to tell you he wasnt gonna talk. and thats exactly what i am doing but i have the curtesy to say one of two things. when i see something worth saying anything then maybe ill say something but right now people are still bickering back and forth. and its annoying and honestly reading it hurts my ears..i have an ear infection.

I realize what VS has been doing and were it anyone else I would've already been pushing a case against them but that's just VS for you. I suppose part of this comes from the fact that I've never played a game of mafia with you so I have nothing to make comparisons to and like I said I need to reread when I have more time. After I go back and reread things it's possible my suspicions of you will fade and I'll find a different case.