Conquer Club

So CoF if I cheat by accident or make a multi by accident, even if it's in the rules but I didn't INTEND to cheat, I should be let off the hook?

It's all about intent, if it's the law that's being applied. 'Mens rea' and 'Actus reus'. You have to establish the first before you can prosecute the second.

As for 'cheating by accident' - that's not even possible is it?

Personally I'm not afeared of the written word. I'd far rather someone spoke his mind ("CoF you're such a twat sometimes") than harboured that thought and said nothing.

Education starts with changing peoples' attitudes, and that can only begin when we truly know what people think.

Again - if my INTENT is a joke, by creating an account w a make shift name to tease you (if we were best buddies, for example).

My intent is "haha" I don't plan to use the account except some fun on forum. But rules say all multi accounts are a no no. Intent doesn't matter, I'll still get punished.

So someone speaking something derogatory that violates rules with the intent of a joke, regardless, should be punished. Intent shouldn't matter, with written words it's hard to "prove" people's intent. I can say something, then when I get in trouble just say "oh ur taking that to serious come on it was a joke man!". It's still something offensive and against the rules.

I wouldn't say this in all applications, but if te site is handing out violation and warnings to others who were joking around (or serious) the same rule should apply to everyone.

If you want to argue the rule shouldn't be there in the first place, that's fine we can discuss merits in a suggestions thread and if implemented anyone who got busted for their "joking" punishments can have their infraction reduced one step. But here we are discussing "why are the rules not being applied to all" when it's clearly a rules violation.


IcePack

Lindax wrote:

owenshooter wrote:p.s.-and did someone really just bust out the N word? mod edit? anyone? anyone... wow...

I did. You have a problem with that? If so, why?

I'm not religious, but I can imagine many more people being offended with somebody calling himself the Black Jesus than me using the word nigger in the context I did.

Lx

right on target...
it would be interesting to see owen reaction if someone starts to sign as "white Martin Luther King"... personally, similar to you, i dont care about religion, but it is signature written down to provoke caucasians, meaning its motivated by racism.

Chariot of Fire wrote:It's all about intent, if it's the law that's being applied. 'Mens rea' and 'Actus reus'.

Nerd! (minus the bigotry)

Falkomagno wrote:

Lindax wrote:I think North Americans are way to uptight when it comes to issues like this.

Come on, two black folk can call each other nigger, but I can't? The ones complaining about bigotry and discrimination are generally the ones that need to take a good look at themselves. They tend to be the ones seeing a difference where others don't.

Lx

I completely agree with this statement. And I can confirm that that extra sensibility with the word "nigger" is restricted only to US and to some extend Canada, since not even Mexican culture is that sensible about it.

Another extreme sensibility detected is the one with the word "fag". Astonishingly that people actively pursue punishment for just uttering the word, regardless the context. If is such offensive term, this people can be just glad if the website can do what it does with the word "f*ck" which automatically is changed to "f**k" i think.

I think you will find this is also a very sensitive issue in the UK and rightly so.

Personally I find it very distasteful and I am appalled that there is even a debate on the issue. This is not about something having shades of right and wrong, it is wrong, period.

Chariot of Fire wrote:

So CoF if I cheat by accident or make a multi by accident, even if it's in the rules but I didn't INTEND to cheat, I should be let off the hook?

It's all about intent, if it's the law that's being applied. 'Mens rea' and 'Actus reus'. You have to establish the first before you can prosecute the second.

As for 'cheating by accident' - that's not even possible is it?

Personally I'm not afeared of the written word. I'd far rather someone spoke his mind ("CoF you're such a twat sometimes") than harboured that thought and said nothing.

Education starts with changing peoples' attitudes, and that can only begin when we truly know what people think.

This isn't entirely accurate (at least not by US standards). The intent requirement may be that you intended the act (most civil/tort laws) or may be that you intended the harm (most criminal laws).

I am pretty sure in this case CC's rule does not care whether the person uttering the bigoted statement intended for it to offend, much like the FCC didn't care when it banned certain words from being spoken on public airways.

freakns wrote:

Lindax wrote:

owenshooter wrote:p.s.-and did someone really just bust out the N word? mod edit? anyone? anyone... wow...

I did. You have a problem with that? If so, why?

I'm not religious, but I can imagine many more people being offended with somebody calling himself the Black Jesus than me using the word nigger in the context I did.

Lx

right on target...
it would be interesting to see owen reaction if someone starts to sign as "white Martin Luther King"... personally, similar to you, i dont care about religion, but it is signature written down to provoke caucasians, meaning its motivated by racism.

How is owen's signature provocative to Caucasians? Jesus wasn't a Caucasian, he was Jewish.

tkr4lf wrote:How is owen's signature provocative to Caucasians? Jesus wasn't a Caucasian, he was Jewish.

Calling Jesus a Jew? I can't imagine a More bigoted thing to say...

freakns wrote:it would be interesting to see owen reaction if someone starts to sign as "white Martin Luther King"... personally, similar to you, i dont care about religion, but it is signature written down to provoke caucasians, meaning its motivated by racism.

It is only provoking to ignorant "Caucasians" who are for some reason afraid of Jesus looking anything unlike them. And considering that Jesus was from the Middle East 2000 years ago, he is probably a lot closer to "black" than you choose to believe. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. I'm not even religious and I know that the color of his skin has nothing to do with his message.

tkr4lf wrote:

freakns wrote:

Lindax wrote:

owenshooter wrote:p.s.-and did someone really just bust out the N word? mod edit? anyone? anyone... wow...

I did. You have a problem with that? If so, why?

I'm not religious, but I can imagine many more people being offended with somebody calling himself the Black Jesus than me using the word nigger in the context I did.

Lx

right on target...
it would be interesting to see owen reaction if someone starts to sign as "white Martin Luther King"... personally, similar to you, i dont care about religion, but it is signature written down to provoke caucasians, meaning its motivated by racism.

How is owen's signature provocative to Caucasians? Jesus wasn't a Caucasian, he was Jewish.

+1 exactly more or less. The unfortunate part is most people dont really identify what part of the world jesus was from,they only identify the popular paintings by famous people which are err. hmmm. inaccurate to say the least.

p.s. not offended by sig el jesus negro.

IcePack wrote:Again - if my INTENT is a joke, by creating an account w a make shift name to tease you (if we were best buddies, for example).

My intent is "haha" I don't plan to use the account except some fun on forum. But rules say all multi accounts are a no no. Intent doesn't matter, I'll still get punished.


IcePack

For example, the creation of obvious multis as [player]@n0nym0us[/player] and [player]Swedish Chef[/player], with the solely purpose of mocking people...You think that deserves a ban for the webmaster? think again, Your argument is invalid

Fruitcake wrote:

Falkomagno wrote:

Lindax wrote:I think North Americans are way to uptight when it comes to issues like this.

Come on, two black folk can call each other nigger, but I can't? The ones complaining about bigotry and discrimination are generally the ones that need to take a good look at themselves. They tend to be the ones seeing a difference where others don't.

Lx

I completely agree with this statement. And I can confirm that that extra sensibility with the word "nigger" is restricted only to US and to some extend Canada, since not even Mexican culture is that sensible about it.

Another extreme sensibility detected is the one with the word "fag". Astonishingly that people actively pursue punishment for just uttering the word, regardless the context. If is such offensive term, this people can be just glad if the website can do what it does with the word "f*ck" which automatically is changed to "f**k" i think.

I think you will find this is also a very sensitive issue in the UK and rightly so.

Personally I find it very distasteful and I am appalled that there is even a debate on the issue. This is not about something having shades of right and wrong, it is wrong, period.

Wrong in the sense that uttering the word nigger or fag should automatically give forum ban?

This is what I mean about things perhaps going too far:

Sent: Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:46 am
From: Das Reich
To: Chariot of Fire

Hey there,

Thanks for the message, wouldn't have known 'bout this otherwise.

I'll say that no, he does NOT deserve punishment.
We're buds, and we joke like that all the time with each other.

Thanks again for letting me know.

-DR

Surely the person to whom the label was being applied - in this case Das Reich - is the one who should take offence (if any was intended)? Clearly he doesn't. Are we to believe that there's a whole host of people out there who have judged one friend's remark to another as intolerance (let's get to core of what bigotry means shall we)?

I just don't see it somehow, and think this whole topic - based on the evidence on which it was initially founded - has been blown way out of proportion. Please don't construe this as my support of bigotry, for it's not, as I'd stand on the side of what's right and proper every time. I just don't see a case for the argument in this particular instance.

because loose rules, weak mods, and paper thin wimps looking for something to complain about...

as always.

Falkomagno wrote:

Fruitcake wrote:

Falkomagno wrote:

Lindax wrote:I think North Americans are way to uptight when it comes to issues like this.

Come on, two black folk can call each other nigger, but I can't? The ones complaining about bigotry and discrimination are generally the ones that need to take a good look at themselves. They tend to be the ones seeing a difference where others don't.

Lx

I completely agree with this statement. And I can confirm that that extra sensibility with the word "nigger" is restricted only to US and to some extend Canada, since not even Mexican culture is that sensible about it.

Another extreme sensibility detected is the one with the word "fag". Astonishingly that people actively pursue punishment for just uttering the word, regardless the context. If is such offensive term, this people can be just glad if the website can do what it does with the word "f*ck" which automatically is changed to "f**k" i think.

I think you will find this is also a very sensitive issue in the UK and rightly so.

Personally I find it very distasteful and I am appalled that there is even a debate on the issue. This is not about something having shades of right and wrong, it is wrong, period.

Wrong in the sense that uttering the word nigger or fag should automatically give forum ban?

Yes.

Falkomagno wrote:I completely agree with this statement. And I can confirm that that extra sensibility with the word "n****r" is restricted only to US and to some extend Canada, since not even Mexican culture is that sensible about it.

Hey wow, there's only 3 countries in the world, US, Canada and Mexico!

You're full of shit. I can confirm that racial slurs are unacceptable in most of the civilized world.

Chariot of Fire wrote:Surely the person to whom the label was being applied - in this case Das Reich - is the one who should take offence (if any was intended)? Clearly he doesn't. Are we to believe that there's a whole host of people out there who have judged one friend's remark to another as intolerance (let's get to core of what bigotry means shall we)?

It doesn't matter if the subject of the slur is offended or not. The usage of racial slurs is offensive to anyone who has to hear or read them, whether it is directed at them or not. Words like that are inappropriate for a reason. It's not just the word itself, it's the meaning of the word, and the meaning of any word is dependent on it's history and cultural context, not only what the user of the word "intends" to communicate. Intent is irrelevant since we humans haven't perfected telepathy yet, and have to rely on commonly agreed meanings assigned to words.

Sorry, where was the racial slur? I must have missed something.

Chariot of Fire wrote:Sorry, where was the racial slur? I must have missed something.

Racial, homophobic, sexist, etc. It doesn't matter. Bigotry is bigotry.

Falkomagno wrote:

For example, the creation of obvious multis as [player]@n0nym0us[/player] and [player]Swedish Chef[/player], with the solely purpose of mocking people...You think that deserves a ban for the webmaster? think again, Your argument is invalid

Your argument is stupid. The webmaster can do what he wants, it's his site. The rest of the users have to follow the rules. That's how it works

natty dread wrote:

Falkomagno wrote:I completely agree with this statement. And I can confirm that that extra sensibility with the word "n****r" is restricted only to US and to some extend Canada, since not even Mexican culture is that sensible about it.

Hey wow, there's only 3 countries in the world, US, Canada and Mexico!

I was talking about this:

Lindax wrote:I think North Americans are way to uptight when it comes to issues like this.
Lx

So yes. In north america there is only 3 countries. I'm not sure if you are ill-disposed or plain stupid

natty dread wrote:You're full of shit. ....

Stay classy.

Anyway, this is clear example of a sentence directed with the solely purpose to offend. Is not funny, is not a mockery among friends since I don't know you; is simply an indication of your written style and "arguments". Still, I don't thing you should be banned for this. Even if this kind of things are annoying, well, are insignificant as well.

natty dread wrote:It doesn't matter if the subject of the slur is offended or not. The usage of racial slurs is offensive to anyone who has to hear or read them, whether it is directed at them or not. Words like that are inappropriate for a reason. It's not just the word itself, it's the meaning of the word, and the meaning of any word is dependent on it's history and cultural context, not only what the user of the word "intends" to communicate. Intent is irrelevant since we humans haven't perfected telepathy yet, and have to rely on commonly agreed meanings assigned to words.

At the end, even if your stupidity or, ill-intended attitude towards argumentation doesn't allow you to engage in a grown-up discussion,still, really deepth inside your "brain", and skimming in your contradictory rant, you still can peek the truth, which is: words itself are meaningless, but the intention and context given is what really shape its meaning

Falkomagno wrote:words itself are meaningless, but the intention and context given is what really shape its meaning

No, words are not meaningless, and anyone who thinks they are is a mouthbreathing braindwarf.

The meaning of any given word is an agreement between everyone who speaks the same language. Intent has nothing to do with it, because people are not fucking mind readers and can not discern the intent behind any given word unless you spell it out. It's not rocket science.

You can't go on calling people n***ers or f***ots and then be all "hurr durr I didn't mean anything with it, they're just words durrrr" because you cannot ignore the historical and cultural baggage of a word.

You don't need to read minds to grasp the intentions of words. Ok, maybe you, but in general people doesn't needs super powers to understand intentions.

For example, you tell your girlfriend...ok, not you, somebody who actually has a girlfriend, "hey hun, let's go to see a movie at home " that doesn't means that you are actually going to see a movie, it rather means sex, even if that word is not uttered in the sentence. Maybe that's hard to understand for you; i have to confess that I never though about that possibility.

I've seen indeed, slow people which never get jokes, or the classical dumb which acts awkward in all situations. Or a good example is a kid, which has to be educated to understand situations. How old are you natty? Do you have some special condition?

Falkomagno wrote:You don't need to read minds to grasp the intentions of words. Ok, maybe you, but in general people doesn't needs super powers to understand intentions.

Ok Falgomagno, since it appears that your level of education is limited to watching spanish-dubbed reruns of Jersey Shore, allow me to educate you a bit.

Intent: the purpose behind a certain action. Eg. (that means "for example"): I fucked your grandmother with the intent to cause her pleasure.

You cannot tell the intent behind someone's words by the words alone. Because only the person who says those words knows what he/she intends by them. You can guess at the intent but you cannot know it because you cannot read minds. How the f*ck is this so hard to understand for you?

Intent is not the same as implication. You can imply things indirectly, like if I were to say "hey, someone in this thread really isn't the brightest spoons in the drawer", that would be an implied statement meaning "Falkomagno is stupid".

Falkomagno wrote:For example, you tell your girlfriend...ok, not you, somebody who actually has a girlfriend, "hey hun, let's go to see a movie at home " that doesn't means that you are actually going to see a movie, it rather means sex, even if that word is not uttered in the sentence. Maybe that's hard to understand for you; i have to confess that I never though about that possibility.

Hey, I understand. I was a teenager once, too. I remember what it was like, when even the thought of talking about es-ee-ex makes you blush and giggle.

These days, I usually just ask my girlfriend if she wants to have sex. Or if I want to watch a movie with her, I ask if she wants to watch a movie. You know, because communication is the keystone of a healthy relationship.

tkr4lf wrote:

freakns wrote:

Lindax wrote:

owenshooter wrote:p.s.-and did someone really just bust out the N word? mod edit? anyone? anyone... wow...

I did. You have a problem with that? If so, why?

I'm not religious, but I can imagine many more people being offended with somebody calling himself the Black Jesus than me using the word nigger in the context I did.

Lx

right on target...
it would be interesting to see owen reaction if someone starts to sign as "white Martin Luther King"... personally, similar to you, i dont care about religion, but it is signature written down to provoke caucasians, meaning its motivated by racism.

How is owen's signature provocative to Caucasians? Jesus wasn't a Caucasian, he was Jewish.

and jewish ppl arent caucasians?

Bones2484 wrote:

freakns wrote:it would be interesting to see owen reaction if someone starts to sign as "white Martin Luther King"... personally, similar to you, i dont care about religion, but it is signature written down to provoke caucasians, meaning its motivated by racism.

It is only provoking to ignorant "Caucasians" who are for some reason afraid of Jesus looking anything unlike them. And considering that Jesus was from the Middle East 2000 years ago, he is probably a lot closer to "black" than you choose to believe. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. I'm not even religious and I know that the color of his skin has nothing to do with his message.

again, im not religious man and i dont care even if he was green... but the fact he is born 2000 years in middle east doesnt change the fact his skin color is white. a bit darker then scandiavian, but not much darker then greek or turk... im living on Balkan, we are all caucasians. our skin is darker then brits or french not because we are born that way, but because we live in worm weather(and because girls are much more sexier that way ) thus our pigment is more active...
owen signature is intend to provoke, calling him self Jesus is provocation to religious ppl. only because you or i dont care, doesnt mean its not provocative. you remember all the bullshit cartoon of Mohamed has bring couple of yrs ago? muslim ppl demand formal apology from danish government because of that. i think thats bullshit, but then again i think witch hunt against someone who used word feg or nigger is also bullshit. your words define you and your actions, so if you decide to attack ppl by calling them feg means you are just too stupid to come up with smart or witty insult, so you should be laughed at. im not black or homosexual, so maybe i dont know how hard those words struck them, but i am serbian and proud of it, so i have receive number of insults because of that, and they all amused me more then insult me.

viewtopic.php?f=239&t=168042&p=3675668#p3675668

The decision was overturned- the case remains Closed, but they will all be punished according to where they stand on the Bigotry scale.

deathcomesrippin wrote:http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=168042&p=3675668#p3675668

The decision was overturned- the case remains Closed, but they will all be punished according to where they stand on the Bigotry scale.

I just felt a disturbance in the force that sounded like a thousand voices screaming, "Oh." and then were suddenly silenced.

I fear something wonderful has happened.