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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:27 am
by amazzony
hatchman wrote:The new Canada map is quite all right IMHO. Now someone please polish up that ugly old Classic map!
Hand off of the Classic!
That would be the biggest and most horrible mistake that his site could ever do
And Canada map - it looks great! But I haven't played it so I don't know how playable it is.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:34 am
by The Fuzzy Pengui
amazzony wrote:And Canada map - it looks great! But I haven't played it so I don't know how playable it is.
The playability is the same as before...there weren't any changes to the playability, except I think there may have been a 4 way border before that has been resolved, but not 100% sure....GREAT JOB WM!
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:35 am
by rebelman
amazzony wrote:
And Canada map - it looks great! But I haven't played it so I don't know how playable it is.
agreed
amazzony wrote:And Canada map - it looks great! But I haven't played it so I don't know how playable it is.
It is not playable IMHO, I would advise against anyone even attempting to play it until the fundamental flaw with the clashing colors is resolved.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:37 am
by amazzony
The Fuzzy Pengui wrote:amazzony wrote:And Canada map - it looks great! But I haven't played it so I don't know how playable it is.
The playability is the same as before...there weren't any changes to the playability, except I think there may have been a 4 way border before that has been resolved, but not 100% sure....GREAT JOB WM!
Yeah, I know, I just meant if it's harder to see the troops on some territories (like rebelman mentioned) or if some borders are more... "foggy"/harder to notice. I didn't make myself clear enough
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:38 am
by rebelman
The Fuzzy Pengui wrote:amazzony wrote:And Canada map - it looks great! But I haven't played it so I don't know how playable it is.
The playability is the same as before...there weren't any changes to the playability, except I think there may have been a 4 way border before that has been resolved, but not 100% sure....GREAT JOB WM!
Fuzzi i could see what I and my opponent were doing yesterday, I can't today - that is a huge playability change.
Forget fog of war at least you can see your own men on that map - this map is the ultimate fog of war
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:51 am
by The Fuzzy Pengui
rebelman wrote:The Fuzzy Pengui wrote:amazzony wrote:And Canada map - it looks great! But I haven't played it so I don't know how playable it is.
The playability is the same as before...there weren't any changes to the playability, except I think there may have been a 4 way border before that has been resolved, but not 100% sure....GREAT JOB WM!
Fuzzi i could see what I and my opponent were doing yesterday, I can't today - that is a huge playability change.
Forget fog of war at least you can see your own men on that map - this map is the ultimate fog of war
Can I play a game on it against you then rebel, I can see everything fine, and need to get my rank back up
. I am sorry to hear it's harder for you to read, maybe we can create a few clan dubs on canada v2 to get everybody clearer on what it looks like.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:57 am
by rebelman
The Fuzzy Pengui wrote:rebelman wrote:The Fuzzy Pengui wrote:amazzony wrote:And Canada map - it looks great! But I haven't played it so I don't know how playable it is.
The playability is the same as before...there weren't any changes to the playability, except I think there may have been a 4 way border before that has been resolved, but not 100% sure....GREAT JOB WM!
Fuzzi i could see what I and my opponent were doing yesterday, I can't today - that is a huge playability change.
Forget fog of war at least you can see your own men on that map - this map is the ultimate fog of war
Can I play a game on it against you then rebel, I can see everything fine, and need to get my rank back up
. I am sorry to hear it's harder for you to read, maybe we can create a few clan dubs on canada v2 to get everybody clearer on what it looks like.
i have 5 active games on it at the moment so im alredy spreading the wealth it also my home turf on two lrge 1 v 1 leagues so soon i will have 0 pts left to donate to anyone.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:18 am
by TheProwler
The old map did not have anything wrong with it. It was clear and effective in every important way.
The new map is visually stunning. And it is horrible to play. Take a look here:
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=1141039
Quick, how many armies in Saguenay? Quebec? Montreal? Lets be honest: It is awful.
Regarding staying up-to-date with the other forum. Many of the paying members (like myself) do not have the time to spend reading the forums. We trust in the people making the big decisions to get it right. This is a great site and a great game and they know what they are doing. But this change is a big mistake.
So I have an idea. I am a software developer and I have a pretty good idea of how I would develop the code for this site. And I suspect this idea would be pretty easy to implement. For maps that have multiple versions with an identical layout and identical logic for bonuses, etc., why not offer a toggle/radio button to allow the user to select which version he/she wishes to view? This would be selectable on a per user basis. So within the same game, each user would choose the version they want to see. The code, when displaying the map, would just need to check the status of the selection and display the appropriate map.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:28 am
by rebelman
very well put
As of now blue armies disappear in Quebec province, green ones in B.C. province, red is just about ok (but still not great) in ontario and to add the finishing touch a neutral in Resolute also disappears into the background.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:28 am
by rebelman
rebelman wrote:very well put
As of now blue armies disappear in Quebec province, green ones in B.C. province, red is just about ok (but still not great) in ontario and to add the finishing touch a neutral in Resolute also disappears into the background.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:32 am
by The1exile
The Fuzzy Pengui wrote:Oh, and good job WM....you never disappoint!
evidently, he has.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:33 am
by firstholliday
I for 1 love and like Thailand.
And it would make a great map but why al those maps with a zillion bonusses and confusing rules?
Just my opinion.
I like Canada tho...
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:34 am
by KoE_Sirius
The new map looks fantastic.I can see the writing now.The graphics are awesome aswell.Admin have done a great job and the guy who made the new map of course.The old map was pants!
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:36 am
by The1exile
Genghis Khan CA wrote:why not keep the old one?
This is a bad idea - why do we need two maps that are exactly the same bar graphics? [/quote]
by the same logic, why do we need a new map that is the same bar graphics?
The old one was more of a game board. This one looks nice, would be brilliant if it was a map of canada was say 8 year old kids learning about the different provinces of canada, but as a risk game board, it's not as functional - and that's the important thing.
If we had an option, even if only temporarily, we could at least see who plays which version more, rather than relying on the forum community to argue the case.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:29 pm
by Optimus Prime
rebelman wrote:rebelman wrote:very well put
As of now blue armies disappear in Quebec province, green ones in B.C. province, red is just about ok (but still not great) in ontario and to add the finishing touch a neutral in Resolute also disappears into the background.
Install the BoB script and use the map fade feature and all of your troubles have just gone away.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:51 pm
by Aerial Attack
Here's a link to
AJAX BOB
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:58 pm
by Optimus Prime
Thanks for the link, Aerial Attack.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:04 pm
by rebelman
Optimus Prime wrote:Install the BoB script and use the map fade feature and all of your troubles have just gone away.
This may solve my troubles but thats not why I posted here this map needs to be fixed - so no users will have playability issues or be forced to use add ins just to play the game. So the problem still remains as far as I am concerned.
Optimus only a minority of users visit forums and an even smaller minority use BOB so this map still needs to be fixed for all users.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:11 pm
by Optimus Prime
rebelman wrote:Optimus Prime wrote:Install the BoB script and use the map fade feature and all of your troubles have just gone away.
This may solve my troubles but thats not why I posted here this map needs to be fixed - so no users will have playability issues or be forced to use add ins just to play the game. So the problem still remains as far as I am concerned.
Optimus only a minority of users visit forums and an even smaller minority use BOB so this map still needs to be fixed for all users.
I have a hard time believed that an even smaller userbase uses the BOB script. It was a MASSIVE ordeal when it didn't work when the site transitioned to AJAX.
I agree that the proper helps or fixes need to be put into place, but quite frankly I don't understand how it isn't already. If you have BOB you can fade the map, if you don't have BOB you can use the colorblind option, if you don't want to do EITHER of those, then make the effort on your own to pay attention to what is going on in the foundry. It is not difficult to check in once a month and see if any maps are being revamped from their current states and then you can take the appropriate actions to make the revampers know of the problem.
To anyone who makes the statement "Most of us paying players don't have the time to check the forums" I say then don't complain, if you didn't go to the effort, you don't get to complain. It should not be expected for the administration of the site to assume everything that all players who don't want to check the forums will be taken care of if those players don't say anything in the first place.
In the end, rebelman, I know that you are a large fan of the Canada map, and that you enjoy playing it for whatever reasons you did in the first place, however, I don't think that the changes have put an unreasonable strain or disadvantage to any members of the site. If so, and it never gets changed, what are you going to do? Leave the site, or just pick different maps to play? I am hoping you will just be picking different maps to play.
Regards, Optimus Prime
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:31 pm
by rebelman
I have a hard time believed that an even smaller userbase uses the BOB script. It was a MASSIVE ordeal when it didn't work when the site transitioned to AJAX.
I read this previously but I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong
I agree that the proper helps or fixes need to be put into place, but quite frankly I don't understand how it isn't already. If you have BOB you can fade the map, if you don't have BOB you can use the colorblind option, if you don't want to do EITHER of those, then make the effort on your own to pay attention to what is going on in the foundry. It is not difficult to check in once a month and see if any maps are being revamped from their current states and then you can take the appropriate actions to make the revampers know of the problem.
Optimus honestly this is a huge problem that needs to be resolved - Aerial Attack struck the nail on the head as to why this is so bad this time its the lack of army circles which on all other maps would have provided contrast. - colorblind is not a solution and fading is far from ideal.
Regarding paying attention in the foundry - trying do a search on my name and check for recent posts I suspect I am close to the top 10 foundry posters in recent times (definitly if map makers are excluded from the count) I have flaged several issues on maps - having gone through some rejection initally as an outsider they now seem to tolerate my imput in there !
To anyone who makes the statement "Most of us paying players don't have the time to check the forums" I say then don't complain, if you didn't go to the effort, you don't get to complain. It should not be expected for the administration of the site to assume everything that all players who don't want to check the forums will be taken care of if those players don't say anything in the first place.
generally agree with the above
In the end, rebelman, I know that you are a large fan of the Canada map, and that you enjoy playing it for whatever reasons you did in the first place, however, I don't think that the changes have put an unreasonable strain or disadvantage to any members of the site. If so, and it never gets changed, what are you going to do? Leave the site, or just pick different maps to play? I am hoping you will just be picking different maps to play.
I have no intention of leaving this site, I will not be joining any games on Canada until it is fixed but that still leaves me with 60 !! Likewise I will not be joining any tournies where this map is being used and will be contacted the organisers of the tournies I am in where this map is being used that I wll be withdrawing as I can't see this map meaning I am in effect playing blind folded.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:51 pm
by TheProwler
I don't use any plug-ins/add-ins for this site and I hope I never have to.
Can you imagine a new user to the site playing his first few games on the new Canada map? What a bad first impression. Maps like this will cost CC users and money.
It doesn't make a lot of sense to say "And to play this map, use this plug-in with this setting or this other plug-in with this setting." Why not just make the map work well without any plug-in or add-on or whatever??
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:01 pm
by TheProwler
hatchman wrote:The new Canada map is quite all right IMHO. Now someone please polish up that ugly old Classic map!
You know, you have to weigh the value of people's opinions. hatchman has every right to voice his opinion. But it certainly shouldn't carry a whole lot of weight since he has never played a game with the old Canada map and just recently started (created) a game on the new map. The nice thing is that he is doing some research (I expect this is why he started his Canada game...).
Is there any chance that any of this discussion will have an influence or an effect?
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:27 pm
by Hatchman
TheProwler wrote:hatchman wrote:The new Canada map is quite all right IMHO. Now someone please polish up that ugly old Classic map!
You know, you have to weigh the value of people's opinions. hatchman has every right to voice his opinion. But it certainly shouldn't carry a whole lot of weight since he has never played a game with the old Canada map and just recently started (created) a game on the new map. The nice thing is that he is doing some research (I expect this is why he started his Canada game...).
Is there any chance that any of this discussion will have an influence or an effect?
Yeah I was enthusiastic about starting a game on the new Canada map, basically because I thought it looked stunning, and I also never liked the old map, based purely on visual appeal. But now we shall see how well the new one plays. I am a tad concerned at this point, having heard everyone's concerns
I like the dog BTW
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:32 pm
by TheKidsTrumpet
I have to admit and agree with hatchman. I also have I think only played one game on the canada map based on it's visual appeal. I never thought about it til hatchman brought it up. Now however since seeing its revamp I have considered starting a few games on it. I have to admit it looks REAL good artistically.
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:37 pm
by Twill
Chill people. Chill.
The world has not ended, WM has a real life too.
We hear you, give us time to take things back to the drawing board so to speak. Things can't be fixed instantly.
Twill