Conquer Club

Posted: **Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:06 am**

Victor Sullivan wrote:I like the change As far as aesthetics are concerned, you could try giving Southeast Asia the yellow hues, since Russia's already brown anyway.

-Sully

Nah, the yellow only worked due to it's scarcity and specific location. Making the whole S.E. Asia yellow would just look garish.

And S.E. Asia is a different brown. And when you think of it, brown is just a yellow with decreased saturation...

Posted: **Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:14 am**

natty_dread wrote:
Victor Sullivan wrote:I like the change As far as aesthetics are concerned, you could try giving Southeast Asia the yellow hues, since Russia's already brown anyway.

-Sully
Nah, the yellow only worked due to it's scarcity and specific location. Making the whole S.E. Asia yellow would just look garish.

And S.E. Asia is a different brown. And when you think of it, brown is just a yellow with decreased saturation...

Lol, this is why I stick to gameplay most of time

-Sully

Posted: **Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:26 am**

Victor Sullivan wrote:
natty_dread wrote:
Victor Sullivan wrote:I like the change As far as aesthetics are concerned, you could try giving Southeast Asia the yellow hues, since Russia's already brown anyway.

-Sully
Nah, the yellow only worked due to it's scarcity and specific location. Making the whole S.E. Asia yellow would just look garish.

And S.E. Asia is a different brown. And when you think of it, brown is just a yellow with decreased saturation...
Lol, this is why I stick to gameplay most of time

-Sully

Nah, your graphics suggestions are still welcome. It's just that I'm pretty particular when it comes to colours. I like to think I have a pretty good eye for them...

To give you the short of it, different colours contrast each other differently. You can have contrast in saturation or brightness, or you can have contrasting hues... The opposite hues, those with inverted RGB values wrt. each other, have the highest contrasts, and from those, the ones with highest luminance differential have the highest contrast... For example, blue <-> yellow has a very high contrast.

So the yellow wouldn't work in S.E, it would be next to India and they wouldn't be having enough contrast. Then I'd have to change india, and it wouldn't be appropriate for being next to Near East anymore, etc... and then the whole house of cards would come crashing down...

Posted: **Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:32 am**

I see... (sort of)

I'm an old man "modding" on a website. This old dog can only learn so many new tricks before he breaks a hip!

-Sully

Posted: **Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:53 am**

This looks just the same as many other natty maps. Why don't you push the boat out and try and step it up a level?

Posted: **Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:01 am**

MrBenn wrote:This looks just the same as many other natty maps. Why don't you push the boat out and try and step it up a level?

Yeah yeah, I've heard it before.

I'm really sorry you feel that way, I guess I just can't please everyone.

Posted: **Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:07 am**

Funny thing though, I still don't know what exactly that dreaded "natty style" is that I should avoid so much. (seewhatididthere)

Yeah maybe there's some superficially common elements in some of my maps. Maybe all graphical artists develop a certain recognizable style over time, certain details in their work that are unique to them. But it's a bit rich to imply that all my maps are just repeating the same theme over and over. I've done lots of unique things. Antarctica is way different from 3 Kingdoms of Korea, Yugoslavia is unlike anything else I've done, etc.

Lastly, MrBenn, you said the same thing about my London map. I made a total graphical revamp there, and I still haven't heard a single thing from you since...

Posted: **Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:49 am**

I still don't know what exactly that dreaded "natty style"

I think he means to imply that it looks good. No agree, with you Natty I'm sick of this tired notion that every map an artist makes needs to be a complete stylistic departure from their other works. I think people should do what they're good at and most comfortable with. Not saying that there isn't any merit to working outside of your comfort zone, but if we're talking coming up with the best possible final product I think that artist will do best to stick to their own unique style that they have worked so hard to develop.

It's like going up to Super Man and saying, "yeah laser eyes, seen it, how bout you stop Lex Luthor by talking to fish this time"

P.S. for the record it was not my intention to imply that Natty Dread is Super Man

Posted: **Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:51 am**

Any way I want to get back on topic. I think you mentioned splitting Madras and making a 3rd Indian sub bonus earlier? If this was something that was discussed I think that it is a great idea.

Posted: **Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:13 pm**

The Bison King wrote:Any way I want to get back on topic. I think you mentioned splitting Madras and making a 3rd Indian sub bonus earlier? If this was something that was discussed I think that it is a great idea.

No, not splitting the bonus, simply adding a territory to India. There's enough small bonuses on the map, if you look at the chart in the first post, with bonuses grouped by territory count, you'll see the small & large bonuses are now pretty evenly spread accross the map.

I could split a part of Central India and append it to East India. That way there'd be one less 3-territory bonus, and the 3-territory bonuses would be divided 2 on the west, 2 on the east, and there'd be one more 4-territory bonus - although there are quite a lot of them already... maybe I could then in turn add another territory to some 4-territory bonus? This'd make it a smoother curve...

Currently the curve looks like this:

Code: Select all

number of bonuses 
^  
| 
6   *
5 * * 
4 * * * *
3 * * * *
2 * * * *   *
1 * * * * * * * *
. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ----> size

The Bison King wrote:No agree, with you Natty I'm sick of this tired notion that every map an artist makes needs to be a complete stylistic departure from their other works. I think people should do what they're good at and most comfortable with. Not saying that there isn't any merit to working outside of your comfort zone, but if we're talking coming up with the best possible final product I think that artist will do best to stick to their own unique style that they have worked so hard to develop.

I kinda agree, in that I don't think uniqueness as such is the primary criteria for creating good works. I see it from a more utilitarian view: do what works for the particular project, if it happens to be different from the earlier ones, good, if not, that's good too. That said, I think there's plenty of variation in my works, I've experimented with different styles a lot, and of course I will keep experimenting - stagnation is never good. But that doesn't mean I put the experimentation as a first priority - my first priority is to make maps that look good and are fun to play.

Posted: **Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:22 pm**

Actually, looking at that curve again, maybe it'd be best to just add a territory to west india and keep the others as is. That'd fix that gap at the 7 territory point, and it would make for a smooth curve.

.... how about Kashmir?

Click image to enlarge.

Posted: **Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:33 pm**

natty_dread wrote: I kinda agree, in that I don't think uniqueness as such is the primary criteria for creating good works. I see it from a more utilitarian view: do what works for the particular project, if it happens to be different from the earlier ones, good, if not, that's good too. That said, I think there's plenty of variation in my works, I've experimented with different styles a lot, and of course I will keep experimenting - stagnation is never good. But that doesn't mean I put the experimentation as a first priority - my first priority is to make maps that look good and are fun to play.

It's an issue all artists face. You develop your own style and apply it to most of your work. After a while, the audience wants to see something new. Sometimes it is fun to completely change things up and throw a curveball out there. I'm a photographer, and whenever I feel like I'm in the same stylistic rut, I usually assign myself a project that imposes some strict limitations on me. For example, I'll only use one lens for an entire month. It's hard and it usually results in work that isn't quite as good as my usual, but it helps me grow a little bit.

All that said, it's up to the individual mapmaker if they want to step outside their comfort zone. If CC really wanted to encourage this, they should start holding contests that enforce restrictions on the mapmakers. Not something loose like, "Map a famous city", but something unique that will foster creativity. Again, just my $0.02.

As far as the map goes, I like it. I especially like the new perspective. As far as gameplay or graphics, there's nothing new or innovative, but that's ok. There's a glut of strange and complicated maps running through the foundry right now, so a nice, large-sized conquer-everything map is a nice refreshment.

Posted: **Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:24 pm**

The audience is a fickle bastard. When you stay with your old, tried and true style, they're all "this is boring, didn't you do this already in 1995 in Norway?" and whenever you try something new, they're all "oh, this is too different, I can't relate at all"... eventually you end up having a nervous breakdown and going on a 6-month bender of shooting heroin in your eyeballs.

Posted: **Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:32 pm**

.... how about Kashmir?

hmm, questionable given the hotly disputed history of the region.

Why not Calcutta?

Posted: **Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:49 pm**

The Bison King wrote:
.... how about Kashmir?
hmm, questionable given the hotly disputed history of the region.

Why not Calcutta?

Well there's disputed history in pretty much any region if you go far enough back. Tibet, pretty much the whole Middle East, Balkans region... if we start considering areas with sensitive history off-limits, the map size will shrink about 50%.

As for Calcutta I considered it but it would add a border to West India and I'm not sure if that's good for the balance...

Posted: **Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:49 am**

So like, impassables?

There's been some talk of using various impassables for the map...
Someone suggested Tundra, and the only place to have it would be Russia... here's a map of Tundra from wikipedia:

Click image to enlarge.

So as far as it can be applied to this map, I'm thinking these borders are possible: Taymyria/Evenkia, Taymyria/West Sakha and Arkhangelsk/Tatarstan...

Posted: **Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:27 pm**

natty, out of all of your maps, this is going to be the one I will play the most. [Not saying the others are bad]. I love the look of it already and it looks like it might be great fun for the large games. Thank god it is not just Europe.

Posted: **Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:47 pm**

One thing I noticed s that you use the Colonial names for many regions, for example Bombay instead of Mumbai and Burma instead of Myanmar. Not thst I'm complaining or wanting you to change anything, I'm just making a comment.

Posted: **Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:52 am**

Yeah I can change those.

Posted: **Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:59 am**

Click image to enlarge.

On another note: I tried out swapping the colour schemes of Near East & Russia with each other, figuring the cyan would fit better for cold russia, with the brown suiting the deserts of middle east better... HOWEVER, after trying it out, it didn't work, like, at all - the colour balance was all messed up, bonuses clashed with their neighbours, so I reverted it back. Now, this is really mostly an aesthetic concern... but which is more important - the thematic integrity of the colour scheme or the "flow" and balance of the colours?

Posted: **Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:20 am**

Can we see the alternate version?

Also to answer your question, flow and balance, imo

Posted: **Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:37 am**

The Bison King wrote:Can we see the alternate version?

Meh, I didn't think to save it...

...maybe I'll do it again if it's really something you'd want to see.

Posted: **Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:55 am**

I'd be curious to see it but if you really don't think it's worth the effort I wouldn't worry about it.

Posted: **Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:20 am**

Looking at this again, and I would like to see you resize it up to1172 in width so you can make the legend clearer. As it is right now it is looking a little cramped. And yes, I am authorizing you to make it bigger for clarity sake!

Posted: **Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:39 am**

isaiah40 wrote:Looking at this again, and I would like to see you resize it up to1172 in width so you can make the legend clearer. As it is right now it is looking a little cramped. And yes, I am authorizing you to make it bigger for clarity sake!

Mmh, there's room to make the legend clearer without resizing the image... I had figured I'd redo the legend after GP stamp, after all the bonuses are fixed... the current legend is really just a sort of draft version.

The Bison King wrote:I'd be curious to see it but if you really don't think it's worth the effort I wouldn't worry about it.

I'll do it just to show off how I'm a flexible mapmaker who is extremely responsive to feedback.

Conquer Club

Eurasia Map [Old thread]

Re: Eurasia [10.12.11] pg5

Re: Eurasia [10.12.11] pg5

Re: Eurasia [10.12.11] pg5

Re: Eurasia [10.12.11] pg5

Re: Eurasia [10.12.11] pg5

Re: Eurasia [10.12.11] pg5

Re: Eurasia [10.12.11] pg5

Re: Eurasia [10.12.11] pg5

Re: Eurasia [10.12.11] pg5

Re: Eurasia [10.12.11] pg5

Re: Eurasia [10.12.11] pg5

Re: Eurasia [10.12.11] pg5

Re: Eurasia [10.12.11] pg5

Re: Eurasia [10.12.11] pg5

Re: Eurasia [10.12.11] pg5

Re: Eurasia [10.12.11] pg5

Re: Eurasia [10.12.11] pg5

Re: Eurasia [10.12.11] pg5

Re: Eurasia [10.12.11] pg5

Re: Eurasia [10.12.11] pg5

Re: Eurasia [13.12.11] pg7

Re: Eurasia [13.12.11] pg7

Re: Eurasia [13.12.11] pg7

Re: Eurasia [13.12.11] pg7

Re: Eurasia [13.12.11] pg7