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Monopoly map, open minds please. [Abandoned]

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Monopoly map, open minds please. [Abandoned]

Postby Banana Stomper on Sun May 21, 2006 11:50 am

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Ok, so before this map gets ridiculed into the ground, because i'm expecting it to(in fact i probably would do so if someone else put it up) please hear me out.

What we keep seeing in our maps is slight variations, but really nothing new. The gameplay has yet to change. This map will provide an opportunity for us to look at a new set up, a new standard for conquer club.

Traditionally we have one or two very small continents, a few middle sized continents, and one very large continent.

There is a very predictable method of play that takes place. If you are lucky enough to find yourself in a small continent, you take it quickly, and hold it, getting two or so more troops than everyone else the entire game, hopefully keeping you afloat throughout. Eventually someone may take a middle size continent and start pulling off some ownage. And what with the large megacontinent? Nothing. I have never personally seen the large continent held for bonus until the game is, for all intensive purposes, over. basically, what have these large continents become? Nothing but neutral territory.

What this map could offer would be a new way of playing. No longer are there the mega continents that no one is foolish enought to bother trying to hold. Many small continents with small bonuses. This map would make for a very good no cards game.

Just some notes, this is about as rough a draft as we can get.

The lines aren't really even necessasary. Just there for clarification even though they're quite a mess.

Any two "countries" of the same color can attack eachother, no need to take the one separating it.

Go to jail itself could be minus 1, but both together could be plus whatever.

I'm thinking very small bonuses. Perhaps the number of countries you must hold for the continent indicating the bonus. 4 for the railroads, 3 or the chances...that sort of thing.

What i'm trying to put out there is something new, and very different, offering very different game play. I hope you guys can be supportive in this endeavor for a giant leap forward in conquer club.

and if you feel so inclined, comment separately on the small region idea and the fact that it is monopoly.
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Postby PaperPlunger on Sun May 21, 2006 11:53 am

ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule ridicule


I think it would be wicked rad if it worked, I love monopoly
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Postby Marvaddin on Sun May 21, 2006 12:40 pm

I dislike it too. Big wasted space, confused routes,... Simple: if you want do a map with many small continents and small bonuses, you can do it, but no need to use the monopoly board. In fact, I believe that very regular maps, as battledome, are bad, because I really like the possibilities created by different continents, just my opinion. And I cant see the new gameplay: all players will go for a small continent, same strategy as we have already. But dont be offended, ok?
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Postby rocksolid on Sun May 21, 2006 12:59 pm

Stomper,

I like the Monopoly idea and some of your thoughts re continents and bonuses, but not in this incarnation...one idea I threw out a while ago and looked into a bit was a map of Atlantic City (which Monopoly is based on), making the actual streets territories that intersect the way they do on the crossword map, and making the continents the colour groups. I ran into a few problems that discouraged me - in real life there's only one railway station that 3 of the 4 monopoly railways all operated out of, with the fourth railway actually being based on a bus freight line; also, while most properties are within the city's grid, the yellow properties are way off from the rest. Another problem was that with only a few exceptions, the monopoly streets are parallel to each other. Google earth it and you'll see what I mean. But some fictionalized city layout of Atlantic city inspired by the fictionalized property layout inspired by the actual city layout might work...

As is, there have to be screaming copyright issues that Hasbro/Parker Bros would not be lenient about, and I don't think the argument that works vs. problems re Risk would operate here.
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Postby rocksolid on Sun May 21, 2006 12:59 pm

Marvaddin wrote: But dont be offended, ok?


Just to call everyone's attention to the new kinder, gentler Marv.
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Postby onbekende on Sun May 21, 2006 1:37 pm

This ISN'T workable, or playable
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Postby Hoff on Sun May 21, 2006 2:08 pm

I'm not sure how I feel about the monopoly map. But I would like to see maps with a different layout such as small territories. Or maybe a map with only two really big territories. Thus making the territory bonus pretty much useless in the game. Which would be alot different then the games now.
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Postby howie on Sun May 21, 2006 2:24 pm

Hoff, how about no continent bonus?
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Postby AndyDufresne on Sun May 21, 2006 2:24 pm

Well lets see...


I've always liked to see new ideas and features in maps. As I've mentioned before in another thread, I think we are now getting the Quantity of maps, but need to up to Quality (both visually and playability). That said...

---I think one of the strong points of this map, is that the map seems readily accessible from any point. Say you hold the Light Blue continent. If you can grab Chance, you can shoot across to the other side of the map. Along with jail and railroads. I think this feature is particularly interesting. There is less need to 'Build up and sweep' in this map as than more traditional maps. And using the Light Blue continent once more, you can limit your borders to 3, with easy options of expansion. I think game play on anywhere from 1 to 4 'regions' of a map could be interesting. That strays away from the traditional 'Hold a continent in the lower region, work your way north' or something similar. That said...

---And you talk about 'Lost Continent' game play. Now one side of that particular game play for map is that, say using Classic Map, if you hold SA. but are boxed in on either side, you could use Asia to keep running, because no one too early will attempt to take it. The 'Lost Continent' becomes a safe haven for maps where you could be cut off from the rest of the world, dying a slow death in a secluded area. But I see your point about the opposing side of the argument for the 'Lost Continent' area. No one particularly goes for it right away (unless very easily taken and defended). And as you said the bonus of it can be a rather mute point in some games, due to once most people claim it, it is near the end of the game. I've been thinking a lot about the layout of continents on maps, and their sizes and bonuses. But currently as it is with your map, there is less of a chance to be 'cut off' from the rest of the world (barring someone taking all railroads, and the various other region connectors).

---Also, I count 40 'countries', which is a minor strong point: just to throw that in.

=======================

---I also believe there are a few hindrances for this map, as I see it now. First of lets look at the continents. If I've understood the idea correctly, there would be 15 continents--varying in size from 2 to 4. One thing I see right away is repetitious game play in bonuses. So I think you need to look now into a few more interesting options you can do. You suggested maybe -1 for both of the 'jails'. This could help with that problem. It might be a nuisance for the regions near those not being able to expand as much, but they've also got the internal areas and the railroads to help them get around. But then giving some sort of negative value for both of the 'jails', might give Red, Orange a slight advantage due to no limiting factors (not Dark blue and Dark purple, because I'd assume you'd look into something similar for the 'Taxation' squares also).

---And again with continents, 15 may be too much. Perhaps if you made the continents that have adjacent railroads take them on into their continent. You would still be able to get across the map, but it would help decrease the continents. Maybe even look to experimenting with making the internals part of the continental region. Or into making '4 corners' a region of their own. I think there still could be some play with continents and country distribution.

---And now to one of the more aching points, the lines. You say they aren't necessarily needed. I think to some extent they could be used, but they definitely just confuse game play for the most part. I feel like I'm trying to find the end to a balled and knotted shoelace.

---Also, just to get this in the air, what would you do to make the visuals of the map appealing? I'd like to hear your play with this idea.


This map is sure interesting, but as of right now I am not sure if it has a home at CC. We'll have to see how everything develops.


--Andy
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Postby Hoff on Sun May 21, 2006 2:30 pm

Maybe to help with the lines in the middle you could bold them more and color code them. So all the railroad lines would be one color, and the other lines would be another color. It could cut down on some confusion.
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Postby Hoff on Sun May 21, 2006 2:31 pm

howie wrote:Hoff, how about no continent bonus?


yes I really think that this would be a really interesting game type. Drastically different from every other map.
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Postby Blitzkreig on Sun May 21, 2006 2:31 pm

Not a good idea at all
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Postby AndyDufresne on Sun May 21, 2006 2:57 pm

A 'no continent' bonus seems to imply more control for countries rather than specifc regions. One thing I see a problem with there is that the # of countries to bonus ratio would make it tough if you took a continent with no bonus. But the idea still could be looked into for perhaps the 'special' areas of the map (I.E. taxation, jails, railroads, utilities, etc).


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Postby Hoff on Sun May 21, 2006 4:09 pm

I guess I should make a seperate thread for my idea. I wasnt really thinking it would be good for the monopoly map. But since we were talking about new map ideas I threw that idea out there too.
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Postby rocksolid on Sun May 21, 2006 6:20 pm

Hey Hoff, I had an idea for a no-continent-bonus map - it would be a very different kind of game, but using identical game mechanics to the ones in place on CC, and map based...check out the "Chariot Race" thread.
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Postby Banana Stomper on Sun May 21, 2006 6:30 pm

I understand that 15 is a lot of continents, but i think that would just create a new dimension. It will make holding continents more of a standard thing. The numbers of armies will probably up, but nothing will be out of reach for anyone. Everyone will find themselves in a position to have a continent early on, which could be a good thing.

Now to say this isn't playable i think may be jumping to conclusions here. Has it been tried? This is a map with a lot of routes fast tracking all over the board. Without them its too linear, with them...who knows. It might not work well or it could be a very good map. I think this is the kind of thing that we need to give a shot and let it happen.

the lines connecting would not stay that way, of course. They are overwhelmingly mixed up and jumbled.

And yes marv, players will still go for the small continents, but there will be a lot of small continents to go for. There will be a lot more short term goals for players to try to accomplish. Another bonus is never very far away.
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Postby Marvaddin on Sun May 21, 2006 6:44 pm

To the guys that are suggesting no bonuses map, I would like to say the following: I dislike the idea because it removes an essential element of the game, so it decreases the strategy and at the other hand increases a lot and increase the influence of luck in the game... Got bad rolls, bye!! Its the same for no cards, it removes a fair element, so the strategy is much less interesting. If you dont gain a resource to motivate your moves, why move? Its better sit down and wait... no one want risk and get bad rolls.

Can you guys imagine a game in this map with no cards? Endless and boring, I believe. I dont want offend no one, as always, only giving my opinion. Do what you think is better.
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Postby Banana Stomper on Sun May 21, 2006 6:52 pm

A no cards game in this map might work very well, because bonuses are readily available to counter the lack of cards.
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Postby Marvaddin on Sun May 21, 2006 7:07 pm

Misunderstanding! I was talking about the no bonuses / continents map, not about monopoly map :wink:
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Postby Banana Stomper on Sun May 21, 2006 7:22 pm

haha, how about a new thread for that.... :wink:
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Postby Jota on Sun May 21, 2006 8:30 pm

The notion is interesting, but I think the copyright issues are probably too severe for it to survive in this form. If it did, I'd recommend ditching the lines. You're going to need a legend to tell you that the Water Works and the Electric company are one continent anyway, so it might be better to work the connectivity data into the legend as well somehow.

But regardless, because of the copyright, I think that mapping the properties to a fictionalized version of Atlantic City might be a better option overall. It'll let you keep the same continent groupings (letting you still do the all-small thing), and it'll clear up the "lines" issue almost entirely.
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Postby Banana Stomper on Sun May 21, 2006 9:25 pm

yea, the lines could easily be done verbally. I conjured up the idea and put that together in about...the time it took to read this post. Everything could easily be made bigger, and if i just made whatever street names i wanted and changed chance to like....some other word for chance that isn't coming to my mind right now. Easy things to get around, but the idea...mmmmmm...the idea.
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Postby Jota on Sun May 21, 2006 9:58 pm

Or, if not verbally, iconically. Miniature pictures of the properties, with lines:

Code: Select all
     ##
     ##
    /  \
  ##    ##    RAILROADS: 4
  ##    ##
    \  /
     ##
     ##
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Postby DublinDoogey on Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:40 pm

I'm just curious as to the progress of the map, or if it's still being made
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Postby max is gr8 on Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:39 am

Now let me say this

bonuses maybe but 1 country always has 2 border and railroad has 4 each country you would need a bonus of 8 if it is 1 per border outside of continent
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