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HOLYWARS 1250

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Re: HOLYWARS 1250

Postby riskllama on Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:46 pm

HOORAY4PROGRESS!!!
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Re: HOLYWARS 1250

Postby Symmetry on Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:03 pm

riskllama wrote:HOORAY4PROGRESS!!!


Lol, I'm not so sure, carry on.
the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein
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Re: HOLYWARS 1250

Postby CHAMPOS on Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:26 am

iancanton wrote:
CHAMPOS wrote:- decided to have Jerusalem and one other random territory starting neutral, following iancanton comments (not Jerusalem and neighbouring Ayyubid Caliphate)
- felt the bonuses of 7 were adequate for the larger regions, particularly as could combine with some smaller ones

other than jerusalem, one other random starting neutral is not good enough. this is because, in 1v1 games, the starting neutral has a 74% chance of being on one of the big three bonuses, when we need it to be on one of the 3-region bonuses.

even when one starting neutral is in oriental orthodox, there is a 7% chance of someone starting with the eastern orthodox bonus. we can eliminate this by using exactly 3 start positions, being bulgaria, serbia and empire of nicaea. in 2-player and 3-player games, each player will start with 14 regions.

do u dislike having to specify a starting neutral in oriental orthodox? if so, then another solution is to use exactly 3 start positions of one eastern orthodox region paired with one oriental orthodox region. u need to choose the pairings. in 2-player and 3-player games, each player will also start with 14 regions.

when u use exactly 3 start positions, games with 4 or more players are unaffected.

please put the map version number in the title to aid identification.

ian. :)



Thanks for the comments

This all sounds sensible to me.

One of the Oriental Orthodox territories starts neutral

and the three Eastern Orthodox territories are allocated first (first three)

still leave 42 allocated territories and no-one can get the smaller bonus territories on the start.

Thanks
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Re: HOLYWARS 1250

Postby iancanton on Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:12 pm

Paengars wrote:Jerusalem is just too good in it's present state a 3 neutral for a +1 is ok in a map were bonus are easy to get. But here for a +1 you need to put troop on 3 territory and face multiple border.

now that ayyubid caliphate no longer starts neutral, jerusalem becomes too attractive again, especially in trench games.

ian. :)
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Re: HOLYWARS 1250

Postby CHAMPOS on Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:44 pm

iancanton wrote:
Paengars wrote:Jerusalem is just too good in it's present state a 3 neutral for a +1 is ok in a map were bonus are easy to get. But here for a +1 you need to put troop on 3 territory and face multiple border.

now that ayyubid caliphate no longer starts neutral, jerusalem becomes too attractive again, especially in trench games.

ian. :)


Noted, two solutions...

I. Higher starting troops on Jerusalem, say 4 or 5

Ii. Ayyubid and Jerusalem both start neutral with 3 each, being the two neutral territories. We then allocate the 6 eastern orth and oriental orth territories and the first six allocated, say oo, eo, oo, eo, eo, oo, to minimise the odds of one player receiving all at the start

Any views, think I prefer the latter, but flexible....

Champos
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Re: HOLYWARS 1250

Postby CHAMPOS on Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:49 pm

CHAMPOS wrote:
iancanton wrote:
Paengars wrote:Jerusalem is just too good in it's present state a 3 neutral for a +1 is ok in a map were bonus are easy to get. But here for a +1 you need to put troop on 3 territory and face multiple border.

now that ayyubid caliphate no longer starts neutral, jerusalem becomes too attractive again, especially in trench games.

ian. :)


Noted, two solutions...

I. Higher starting troops on Jerusalem, say 4 or 5

Ii. Ayyubid and Jerusalem both start neutral with 3 each, being the two neutral territories. We then allocate the 6 eastern orth and oriental orth territories and the first six allocated, say oo, eo, oo, eo, eo, oo, to minimise the odds of one player receiving all at the start

Any views, think I prefer the latter, but flexible....

Champos


The starting sequence should probably be oo, oo, oo, eo, eo, eo for the first six territories allocated, to minimise one player having all three in various player number games.
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Re: HOLYWARS 1250

Postby iancanton on Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:26 pm

CHAMPOS wrote:Ii. Ayyubid and Jerusalem both start neutral with 3 each, being the two neutral territories. We then allocate the 6 eastern orth and oriental orth territories and the first six allocated, say oo, eo, oo, eo, eo, oo, to minimise the odds of one player receiving all at the start

under this option, u do not list 6 individual regions to allocate first, but 3 eo-oo pairs, each pair being a start position. in 1v1 games, only 2 pairs are allocated, leaving 39 regions to divide by 3; this has the undesirable side-effect of letting player 1 start with 15 regions and being able to reduce his opponent to 14 regions easily.

CHAMPOS wrote:I. Higher starting troops on Jerusalem, say 4 or 5

this leaves the jerusalem-oo neutral combination, coupled with 3 eo start positions, as a fairer choice.

ian. :)
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Re: HOLYWARS 1250

Postby CHAMPOS on Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:51 am

Iancanton, thanks for the comments

I reckon we should go with the following...

44 territories

2 start neutral with 3 armies - being Jerusalem and Ayyubid Caliphate - this makes it harder to obtain Jerusalem early as two neutral territories would need to be conquered

leaves 42 territories, so a good number to divide in 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 player games.

then the first six territories would be allocated as follows (in this order):

- Makuria - OO
- Serbia - EO
- Alodia - OO
- Begwena - OO
- Bulgaria - EO
- Empire of Nicea - EO

Under 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 player games, no player could start with a religeon from the outset

Does this work for you and can this work under the coding?

CHAMPOS
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Re: HOLYWARS 1250

Postby CHAMPOS on Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:05 am

Iancanton, any update on the above, any other playability comments....
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Re: HOLYWARS 1250

Postby LiveLoveTeach on Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:52 pm

The legend is a bit difficult to read as is - you could try making the font the same as the title? tbh, I don't really like the overall look of it much, but you've already said that you're leaving it with a topographical look.
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Re: HOLYWARS 1250

Postby riskllama on Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:51 pm

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