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Are the maps getting too complicated?

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Are the maps getting too complicated?

Yes, absolutely
3
9%
Yes, with some exceptions
0
No votes
I don't know
0
No votes
No, with some exceptions
7
21%
Not at all
17
50%
Kittens are cute
7
21%
 
Total votes : 34

Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby Symmetry on Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:32 pm

Actually, HitRed, the creator of the periodic table map, has asked me to re-link his map. Generally, in my many years on CC, I've found that mapmakers appreciate a bit of criticism. Sometimes the mapmaking forums can be an echo chamber of "this looks awesome" with little other feedback.
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby iAmCaffeine on Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:58 am

Any mapmaker with some sense only cares about criticism from people who are going to play on the map.
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby riskllama on Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:19 am

iAmCaffeine wrote:Any mapmaker with some sense only cares about criticism from people who are going to play on the map.


yeah, good point.
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby Symmetry on Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:40 pm

riskllama wrote:
iAmCaffeine wrote:Any mapmaker with some sense only cares about criticism from people who are going to play on the map.


yeah, good point.


From my wall:

HitRed wrote:All your points are valid. Pi has tonnes of text. PTableE the bonus are very long and hard to take. Players will need to double check Y and Yb. Understood. It's still work in progress so things can change. Hopefully it will get Beta.


I get that you guys- RL and IAC want to make this a troll thread and flame me, but let's keep this about the maps, ok?
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby riskllama on Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:04 pm

meh, sounds made up... :-s
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby Symmetry on Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:19 pm

riskllama wrote:meh, sounds made up... :-s


You're welcome to check my wall. Just click on my name. Anyone can view it RL.

We cool?
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby iAmCaffeine on Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:24 am

Symmetry wrote:
riskllama wrote:
iAmCaffeine wrote:Any mapmaker with some sense only cares about criticism from people who are going to play on the map.


yeah, good point.


From my wall:

HitRed wrote:All your points are valid. Pi has tonnes of text. PTableE the bonus are very long and hard to take. Players will need to double check Y and Yb. Understood. It's still work in progress so things can change. Hopefully it will get Beta.


I get that you guys- RL and IAC want to make this a troll thread and flame me, but let's keep this about the maps, ok?

I said "with some sense". If a mapmaker is validating your opinion then they're lacking in sense. I knew you'd miss that.
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby riskllama on Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:52 pm

well, HR is a proud Trump supporter, so iAC wins this thread, again - this is unprecedented.
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby HitRed on Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:12 pm

"Feedback is an essential part of the map making process. It allows the mapmaker to get different perspectives and find out what people like and don't like about their map. It also sheds light on any flaws in gameplay or graphics which the mapmaker did not see. For someone that wants to be involved but doesn't have the artistic knack, giving good feedback is a great way to become a vital part of the foundry. If you regularly give good feedback, you will become well liked by the mapmakers, Foundry Assistants and Moderators (members who are in charge of stamping maps). Not only that, but you will make a noticeable impact on the quality of the maps the foundry produces."

Quote by MrBenn
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby iAmCaffeine on Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:51 pm

That quote is irrelevant. It's an encouragement for other users to give feedback on maps. If you're making a map and want to take feedback from a known victim of his own trolling who doesn't even play the game, then more fool you.
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby riskllama on Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:13 pm

perhaps sym could make himself useful in some capacity around the Foundry - stranger things have happened... :-s
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby Dukasaur on Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:15 pm

riskllama wrote:perhaps sym could make himself useful in some capacity around the Foundry - stranger things have happened... :-s

Perhaps he could start by keeping Foundry discussions in the Foundry Discussions forum.
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby riskllama on Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:49 pm

honestly, duk - how would that help? the foundry is dead AF, at least out here, someone will see it.
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby Symmetry on Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:48 pm

Dukasaur wrote:
riskllama wrote:perhaps sym could make himself useful in some capacity around the Foundry - stranger things have happened... :-s

Perhaps he could start by keeping Foundry discussions in the Foundry Discussions forum.


I've not quoted any discussion from the Foundry discussions forum, Duk. Besides, I know no rule against doing so, and given that the mapmaker has found some of this discussion helpful in advancing the maps, I don't really see the problem.
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby Symmetry on Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:53 pm

riskllama wrote:honestly, duk - how would that help? the foundry is dead AF, at least out here, someone will see it.


Indeed- I'd actually say that the site would be better for having more of these kinds of threads. Encouraging people to provide input on maps in development in a place where they are more likely to receive feedback- positive and negative is, I think, a good thing.

RL- if you can lay off trolling both me and now also HitRed, what would your opinions be on what's good and what's not with regards to the maps.
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby Shannon Apple on Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:22 pm

Symmetry wrote:A couple of the top maps in development in the foundry at the moment:



I find it hard to believe that someone who doesn't even play the game is upset by the difficulty of maps.Not attacking you, just an observation.:P

The site has over 250 maps and many of them have the exact same settings, so there are plenty for beginners to play. It's nice to see new concepts popping up as it adds a layer of difficulty for more advanced players. The game is constantly evolving and that's a positive thing.
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby Evil Semp on Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:05 pm

Ladies and gentlemen Symmetry is a member of our community. From the way I read it the map maker doesn't have any problems with his comments so I don't really understand why you would. Lets try to treat everyone the way we would want to be treated.
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby iAmCaffeine on Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:32 pm

If I was a troll I'd expect to be treated like one.
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby Evil Semp on Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:34 pm

iAmCaffeine wrote:If I was a troll I'd expect to be treated like one.


Then I guess I have to be a little more blunt. QUIT TROLLING!
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby Symmetry on Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:07 pm

Thanks ES-

IAC- you're also a member of the community, and it'd be cool if you could add to the discussion. HitRed and I have some disagreements on the maps, but we aren't on opposite sides. We'd both like the maps to be better.

Feel free to join the discussion, even if you like, by opposing my points or discussing what you like or don't like with HitRed.
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby Symmetry on Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:17 pm

Shannon Apple wrote:The site has over 250 maps and many of them have the exact same settings, so there are plenty for beginners to play. It's nice to see new concepts popping up as it adds a layer of difficulty for more advanced players. The game is constantly evolving and that's a positive thing.


I don't want to see the site evolve into a point where the top tier players and new members compete on entirely different sets of maps and settings. To me, that would mean a destruction of the sense of community here. I don't mind new ideas, not at all, but I would like to see the older ideas implemented in new and inventive ways more, and for new maps to evolve from simpler maps rather than to add more complexity to already complex newer maps.

The site evolves in different ways, and not all of them are positive. One of the less positive ways is that members of the community put less input into the mapmaking forums, for example, than they used to. There should be more threads like this if it helps involve the community in mapmaking.
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby .SCuD. on Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:23 am

Periodic table map is unbelievably simple. It looks crap, in my opinion, as it links too much so all those bonuses will be pointless. It will be played as a non-bonus taking, strategic map where you are just trying to eliminate... but as everything links to everything, it just won't quite work. Possibly okay in a doubles / 2poly trench setting?

Other map also looks very simple to understand.

Compare either of these to Stalingrad, and you're on easy street with these.
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Re: Are the maps getting too complicated?

Postby Symmetry on Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:28 pm

.SCuD. wrote:Periodic table map is unbelievably simple. It looks crap, in my opinion, as it links too much so all those bonuses will be pointless. It will be played as a non-bonus taking, strategic map where you are just trying to eliminate... but as everything links to everything, it just won't quite work. Possibly okay in a doubles / 2poly trench setting?

Other map also looks very simple to understand.

Compare either of these to Stalingrad, and you're on easy street with these.


Stalingrad as a point of comparison makes most maps look easy-

Image

If that's your jumping off point though, most maps will seem like child's play.

Edit- image fixed
Last edited by Symmetry on Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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