Conquer Club

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7712275.stm

The cards will be available for all from 2012 but she said: "I regularly have people coming up to me and saying they don't want to wait that long."

Is this true, my British brothers? It can't be, can it?

You're getting slow Backglass.... real slow...

None of my friends want one. Admitedly they are both biased as they spend most of there time giving false details to the rozzers.

Gypsys Kiss wrote:None of my friends want one. Admitedly they are both biased as they spend most of there time giving false details to the rozzers.

wait, you only have two friends?

Ok I admit, I made one of them up.

Juan_Bottom wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7712275.stm

The cards will be available for all from 2012 but she said: "I regularly have people coming up to me and saying they don't want to wait that long."

Is this true, my British brothers? It can't be, can it?

I don't see how a national ID card is a bad thing? We already have a national ID number in the US (our SSN), and the vast majority of us have a state ID card (our drivers license)... and many of us have a passport... And yet I keep hearing privacy advocates opposing national ID cards, and I cannot figure out why. Are they going to be placing tracking chips in these things, or what? Little tiny cameras?

Ditocoaf wrote:

Juan_Bottom wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7712275.stm

The cards will be available for all from 2012 but she said: "I regularly have people coming up to me and saying they don't want to wait that long."

Is this true, my British brothers? It can't be, can it?

I don't see how a national ID card is a bad thing? We already have a national ID number in the US (our SSN), and the vast majority of us have a state ID card (our drivers license)... and many of us have a passport... And yet I keep hearing privacy advocates opposing national ID cards, and I cannot figure out why. Are they going to be placing tracking chips in these things, or what? Little tiny cameras?

Those forms of ID actually have legislatively mandated limits. For example, it used to be that most states issued Driver's liscenses without checking residencies because they thought it was better to make sure drivers were safe than to worry about residency. (ie. far more people are killed or injured by bad drivers without insurance than by illegal aliens).

Also, it is illegal to require you to give your SS as ID, though many hospitals and schools have been quite slow to pick up on that.

Even so, identify thieves have a field day now. Unless and until identification is better ..

But, once that happens, then I think we will get the cards here.

Ditocoaf wrote:Are they going to be placing tracking chips in these things, or what? Little tiny cameras?

Yes, call it 'the next step.' RFIDs from companies like ANGEL and ALIEN TECHNOLOGIES are being pressed into ID cards. They are already in some credit and debit cards. The article also makes mention of having to use your thumbprint every time that you use your card, to ensure that there is no identity theft.

I only hope alex jones can stop them.

Cue the music.

atheistheretic wrote:I only hope alex jones can stop them.

Cue the music.

Why is it that no one ever takes this stuff seriously? Oh yeah, people are idiots.
I thought once Mexicans started choipping their children people would go, "wait, what? Oh hell no Jefe!" I was wrong. Then when they started secretly putting chips in Credit Cards I though people would at least be concerned for their identity... nope.... Even US soldiers don't mind actually getting physically chipped. Oh well.

But this subject really is about makeing a pretend demand for an item. Like that college experiment where some dudes just randomly form a line outside of a door and everyone hops in it. These ID cards serve no realistic purpose.

I still don't understand what harm there is in ID cards. It's not like they're making us call eachother by number instead of by name. Just keeping everything the government already knows about us organized and easily accessable and verifiable. My school has an ID number and card for us... the only difference there would be without them is that things would be more disorganized and harder to do.

On a side note, RIFD's are a fucking joke, and don't work for anything. Seriously, credit card companies advertised them as if they're some sort of special extra-security-techology, but they're proven hackable.

Ditocoaf wrote:On a side note, RIFD's are a fucking joke, and don't work for anything. Seriously, credit card companies advertised them as if they're some sort of special extra-security-techology, but they're proven hackable.

Yup. If some nerd with a radar gun can read your card fron 30 yards away... imagine what our police could do.

Ditocoaf wrote:I still don't understand what harm there is in ID cards.

It depends good sir. If you are required to leave a thumbprint every time that you use it, the governments ability to track you is obvious.
And if it's chipped(this isn't) that's pretty obvious too.

The biggest problem with this program is that it is a waste of money. The card does not do it's job.

Juan_Bottom wrote:

Ditocoaf wrote:On a side note, RIFD's are a fucking joke, and don't work for anything. Seriously, credit card companies advertised them as if they're some sort of special extra-security-techology, but they're proven hackable.

Yup. If some nerd with a radar gun can read your card fron 30 yards away... imagine what our police could do.

Ditocoaf wrote:I still don't understand what harm there is in ID cards.

It depends good sir. If you are required to leave a thumbprint every time that you use it, the governments ability to track you is obvious.
And if it's chipped(this isn't) that's pretty obvious too.

The biggest problem with this program is that it is a waste of money. The card does not do it's job.

Well in that sense, the government can already track us very well. Think the CIA can't get a list of every time we've used our driver's license, passport, or SSN?

And everything that the ID card would be required for, would be something that we'd need to officially identify ourselves for anyway. It's not like we'd use it to buy a train ticket or to shop for groceries.

atheistheretic wrote:I only hope alex jones can stop them.

Cue the music.

He's a cartoon now!
(great movie, btw)

Apparently you can hack a thumbprint reader with a jelly baby...

This is all about saving face. No one wants the damn things and the labour govt knows it won't be around to push the ligislation through. Jacqui Smith may have had a few nutjobs telling her this, but the majority will have told her exactly what to do with them.

Whether or not you want the state to have all this information about you is one thing (I don't); whether you want this information in the hands of demonstrably incompetent bureaucrats is another. The UK govt and civil service have recently left laptops on trains, memory sticks have gone missing with enormous amounts of data on private citizens, and they have cocked up the new IT projects for the health service and the judiciary, too... they don't have the credibility to get this done, IMHO.

And anyway, if they do ever get round to introducing ID cards, there will hopefully be enough civil disobedience to get them to scrap it very quickly.

MrBenn wrote:Apparently you can hack a thumbprint reader with a jelly baby...

QI ftw.

I don't see the problem. I already have my id-card with me all the time. So far the only two uses I have encountered for it are for the police to check who you are and for supermarkets and other stores to check whether you're old enough to buy liquor/cigarettes. Why is this evil? What possible sinister scheme are they trying to pull of here?

You've said time and time again that this is evil, juan, but you haven't yet given a single reason as to why that is.

Juan_Bottom wrote:

atheistheretic wrote:I only hope alex jones can stop them.

Cue the music.

Why is it that no one ever takes this stuff seriously? Oh yeah, people are idiots.
I thought once Mexicans started choipping their children people would go, "wait, what? Oh hell no Jefe!" I was wrong. Then when they started secretly putting chips in Credit Cards I though people would at least be concerned for their identity... nope.... Even US soldiers don't mind actually getting physically chipped. Oh well.

But this subject really is about makeing a pretend demand for an item. Like that college experiment where some dudes just randomly form a line outside of a door and everyone hops in it. These ID cards serve no realistic purpose.

I lost my closest group of friends because of alex jones and his postaugust doomdsday 07 prediction.

And his doomsday sometime in august 07 prediction.

Think of it as a right of passage.

I had to endure racial slurs because of this.

Ditocoaf wrote:Well in that sense, the government can already track us very well. Think the CIA can't get a list of every time we've used our driver's license, passport, or SSN?

Now imagine if every patrolman's radar gun had an RFID reader... and just by scanning people driving by they knew everything about your arrest record... and what if they carried those guns around with them on patrol everywhere? What if the cop is corrupt?
Their ability to track you goes up 100million% with RFID. In fact, take it as hearsay, but the special forces dudes who say they've been chipped, say they were chipped so they could be tracked on the battle field with satillite.

heavycola wrote:This is all about saving face. No one wants the damn things and the labour govt knows it won't be around to push the ligislation through. Jacqui Smith may have had a few nutjobs telling her this, but the majority will have told her exactly what to do with them.

Whether or not you want the state to have all this information about you is one thing (I don't); whether you want this information in the hands of demonstrably incompetent bureaucrats is another. The UK govt and civil service have recently left laptops on trains, memory sticks have gone missing with enormous amounts of data on private citizens, and they have cocked up the new IT projects for the health service and the judiciary, too... they don't have the credibility to get this done, IMHO.

And anyway, if they do ever get round to introducing ID cards, there will hopefully be enough civil disobedience to get them to scrap it very quickly.

This is what I was looking for! I was just wondering what you all though of the attempt at a new system.

Snorri1234 wrote:You've said time and time again that this is evil, juan, but you haven't yet given a single reason as to why that is.

Ok, let me say this first, I am not a wingnut. What I'm saying sounds similer to what the wingnuts are saying, but it is not the same thing.
A national ID mostly makes sense to me. And since we aren't close to getting one here in the states, I'm not worried about it. The Christian lobby prevents it because it is "the mark of the beast."
What I am againsts is RFID & tracking programs. And I think I've explained why pretty well. I've seen nerds on the discovery channel make homemade radar guns and steal credit card numbers(and more) from thirty feet away. And I can only imagine what giving power like that to police & government & identity theives would do. As if Homeland Security doesn't abuse it's powers enough...

Really, I am against all obvious forms of tracking your citizens. Thumbprinting everytime you use your card is a pretty obvious way of tracking people, IMO. As is RFID.

Wait, so you're okay with ID's, but not with having RIFD chips on them? Then we agree. I thought this thread was just about the ID cards...

I don't want another card... I lose my stuff already. One more thing to lose.

Ditocoaf wrote:Wait, so you're okay with ID's, but not with having RIFD chips on them? Then we agree. I thought this thread was just about the ID cards...

Yup, that's what my issue on the whole with American ID is.

This thread however, was just about what the Brits really think of this pointless program. Some part of me didn't believe that they were all waiting in line somewhere.

MergeSubmersible wrote:I don't want another card... I lose my stuff already. One more thing to lose.

Hurrah for new voices!

Juan_Bottom wrote:

MergeSubmersible wrote:I don't want another card... I lose my stuff already. One more thing to lose.

Hurrah for new voices!

I admit I'm no newb: I chronically join random forums. Not sure I'll play CC... might give it a go.