Europa [Quenched]

[MrBenn]

Another Update

-I've put army shadows on all territories. What do people think about the mix of light/dark shadows?
-The borders in the transcontinental region have been redrawn slightly to make them more uniform, and help the names/numbers fit.
-Grrece/Crete/Cyprus are now Hellenic states, in a slightly paler blue than the Balkans.
-I have 'unhidden' the territory names. I like the font, but am not convinced by the shading. I would welcome some thoughts on this
-Some of the ocean routes now overlap the land, where I have moved some borders around - I'll change these later.
-The legend still needs to be reworked slightly - this will incorporate any discussion about region bonusses.

[MrBenn]

also the names are annoying, if you didnt know europe well you would have to look up what you have and what u can attack and so on.

You did realise that I had deliberatley left them off the last update?? Does that help??

the sea's size needs fixing if you know what i mean??
the round sort of circles sort of things in them need to be smalled because at the moment its making the whole map look tiny

I've no idea what you mean t-o-m... can you try and explain again?

I don't think San Marino's style would work. In any case, this map needs to continue to find its graphic vision.
--Andy

Hmm

[sam_levi_11]

I don't think San Marino's style would work. In any case, this map needs to continue to find its graphic vision.


--Andy

just saying i actually prefer the current europe's style.

[pepperonibread]

Any reason for all the names being lowercase? Maybe this was discussed already, but I think it would look better if they were capitalized.
Also, does kaliningrad oblast (between lithuania and poland) have any function? I don't think it should, just want to clarify.

[multiplayertim]

i think tom was talking about the lines of latitude but these cannot be made smaller for obvious reasons.

Is kaliningrad included in map as it's not labelled but the brown territory below lithuania is where it should be

just a political issue should Cyprus be half brown to signify Turkey's control over half the island

its not clear if link to corsica is from france or monaco, ifs it's from monaco i think it could be sorted by moving it left so it's more central to monaco, if link is from france maybe you could move link to between andorra and monaco

are corsica and sardinia connected because a dotted line runs down the west coast until it reaches the name corsica but i can't see where it goes after that

thats all for now

[RjBeals]

Well you certainly have well defined colors for this map. There should be no confusing bonus region borders here! I don't like the globe lines on the whole map. Not needed. Overall though - I think this is nice with the bold "primary" colors.

I'm not sure what the Med.Islands bonus is. Why does the gradient end in brown? I don't see any brown islands?
Are you sure the 88's will fit in those army boxes? They look small. Could you post a pict with the 88's in place? It changes the feel of the whole map when there are armies on it.

I'm not sure about the title in the legend. It's cool - but could that image be copyrighted? http://europa.eu/ I don't think it fits the feel of the map either. I would suggest taking the title out of the legend, making the min-map bigger, and putting the "Europa" map title somewhere else.

Good Work on the smooth borders also. They look great!

[AndyDufresne]

Could you make the Key text in the bottom left easier to read? The dark on dark isn't so pleasant for the eye. (But it isn't distracting, which is what I assume you were going for.)

Edit: for Iceland, could you move the text into the water like Northern Ireland, and move the army shadow onto the territory?


-Andy

[Kaplowitz]

I dont like the texture, the rest looks great though

[edbeard]

I have a problem with one section of the map colour-wise

BeNeLux and Central Europe aren't that far off from each other in terms of colour. The difference between those would be better served to be more like the difference between the Baltics and Eastern Europe in terms of shade difference.

[sam_levi_11]

i have to say this has grown on me. whole map needs to be made bigger imo

[MrBenn]

Thanks for all the feedback guys... It helps to have something to work from. I'll attempt to put some thoughts/responses together here - I'm open to most suggestions
I'm feeling positive about the map now - something I haven't felt for some time

I think this is nice with the bold "primary" colors.

Any reason for all the names being lowercase? Maybe this was discussed already, but I think it would look better if they were capitalized.

I've been playing around with the font and I thought that lowercase text fitted quite nicely with the bold primary colours...

Also, does kaliningrad oblast (between lithuania and poland) have any function? I don't think it should, just want to clarify.

Is kaliningrad included in map as it's not labelled but the brown territory below lithuania is where it should be
just a political issue should Cyprus be half brown to signify Turkey's control over half the island

It's my intention to keep Kaliningrad in, but as part of Russia... so that Russia can attack/be attacked by Poland/Lithuania.
I'm not too sure how to make this feature work though, without a lengthy explanation, which I would like to avoid where possible.

As for Cyprus, it was brown for a while, but will be blue now... On this map, turkey is Transcontinental is it is mainly Asian. Cyprus is very definately European, and although there is Turkish influence/claim to the North, I'm attaching it to Greece/Crete as a 'Hellenic State'

I have a problem with one section of the map colour-wise
BeNeLux and Central Europe aren't that far off from each other in terms of colour. The difference between those would be better served to be more like the difference between the Baltics and Eastern Europe in terms of shade difference.

Shouldn't be a problem I'd toned down the bright orange colour, so this isn't a big surprise. Does having the dark/light army shadows help at all? Either way, I'll make that bit slightly less orange...

Are you sure the 88's will fit in those army boxes? They look small. Could you post a pict with the 88's in place? It changes the feel of the whole map when there are armies on it.

Speaking of army shadows - yes they are the right size for 88s - I'll put a couple on the next update. The boxes themselves won't fit triple digits (not sure about the large map though), but I think there's enough space for that not to be a problem.

I dont like the texture, the rest looks great though

I had a texture on an earlyish draft, which vanished during some layer flattening (doh!)! I think this one looks heaps better, and helps to tone down some of the brightness. I'll have a little play around with textures soon, and see if I can find something a bit better

i have to say this has grown on me. whole map needs to be made bigger imo

I'm glad the map is growing on you - the last couple of updates have been good for me and the map, I think. Sadly, there's not a lot I can do about the size on this - I'm already at the 630px max. width - you'll just have to use the large one!

I'm not sure what the Med.Islands bonus is. Why does the gradient end in brown? I don't see any brown islands? ... I'm not sure about the title in the legend. It's cool - but could that image be copyrighted? http://europa.eu/ I don't think it fits the feel of the map either. I would suggest taking the title out of the legend, making the min-map bigger, and putting the "Europa" map title somewhere else.

Could you make the Key text in the bottom left easier to read? The dark on dark isn't so pleasant for the eye. (But it isn't distracting, which is what I assume you were going for.)
Edit: for Iceland, could you move the text into the water like Northern Ireland, and move the army shadow onto the territory?

I've made the text in the key slightly easier to read, and will move the iceland army/name around. As for the rest of the legend, I think it does need another overhaul - and your suggestion will help create a bit more room in there.

its not clear if link to corsica is from france or monaco, ifs it's from monaco i think it could be sorted by moving it left so it's more central to monaco, if link is from france maybe you could move link to between andorra and monaco
are corsica and sardinia connected because a dotted line runs down the west coast until it reaches the name corsica but i can't see where it goes after that

Some of the ocean routes have been screwed up since I've redrawn most of the land borders and moved labels/shadows around. I will look at these again soon - thanks for the reminder

I think I've picked up on most of the comments here. If I've missed one, please don't be offended - just repost it in bold multicoloured capital letters as large as possible... that's a joke by the way :lol:

[MrBenn]

Quick update:

-The oranges have been tweaked to make them a bit more different.
-I've moved the label for Iceland
-The text on the key (bottom left) should be easier to read, but still not too 'in your face'
-I've put some army 88's across the middle of the map

There will be more small changes over the next few days

'To Do' list:
- The Legend - need to sort out the title, and make the bonusses easier to read.
- Define the Kaliningrad/Russia attack rule (Russia also borders Poland and Lithuania)
- Sort out the bonuses
- The Balkan States- to get a bonus for this area, I'm contemplating having a 'hold any 6 or 7' (out of 10) requirement, instead of having to hold the whole thing??
- The Med Islands - they are now absorbed into different regions, but I would still like to have a bonus for holding any 5 of them, or something??
- Find a better name for the Italy/Malta region
- Put Gibraltar back on the map
- Monaco looks wrong.
- Redraw ocean routes
- Experiment with different textures
- Sort out the 'glow' around territory labels.

[hulmey]

in europe there is no british isles....Its the United Kingdom and the republic of ireland has nothing to do with the UK. please change this

[RjBeals]

I'm not sure what the Med.Islands bonus is. Why does the gradient end in brown? I don't see any brown islands?

What about this?

[edbeard]

so is greece part of the islands continent?

It doesn't seem like it should be. And, if it is, I think it needs to be more clear.


The BeNeLux colour is better now.


I'd say you should show more of corsica's colour and not block it with the army rectangle and the label. Make it easy to see right away that it's red.


I'd say make that part of russia (kalingrad?) be grey. So, just make it non-playable. Otherwise you'd have to mention somewhere it's part of Russia. I don't think it adds to gameplay. I know you're trying to be accurate with the map so lets hear other opinions.

[MrBenn]

in europe there is no british isles....Its the United Kingdom and the republic of ireland has nothing to do with the UK. please change this

No thanks. Rep. Ireland is not part of the UK, and I want to keep the British Countries as they are - especially as I live in England

I'm not sure what the Med.Islands bonus is. Why does the gradient end in brown? I don't see any brown islands?

What about this?

Sorry...
I'll look at that when I redo the legend. Cyprus was orignally brown, which is why there is brown on there...

1. so is greece part of the islands continent?
2. It doesn't seem like it should be. And, if it is, I think it needs to be more clear.

3. The BeNeLux colour is better now.

4. I'd say you should show more of corsica's colour and not block it with the army rectangle and the label. Make it easy to see right away that it's red.

5. I'd say make that part of russia (kalingrad?) be grey. So, just make it non-playable. Otherwise you'd have to mention somewhere it's part of Russia. I don't think it adds to gameplay. I know you're trying to be accurate with the map so lets hear other opinions.

1. No
2. The Med Islands are going to be confusing too If I go ahead with that bonus, then they will all be in two continents... the one that corresponds to their colour, and the Med Islands one too.
3. Thanks - it was an easy fix
4. Good suggestion - I'll move the Corsica label - I think that's the easist thing to do.
5. I'm not sure - but lets hear other opinions

[iancanton]

The BeNeLux colour is better now.

have similar colours been deliberately positioned beside each other? red is beside pink, orange is beside peach, deep green is beside pale green and deep blue beside pale blue.

I'd say make that part of russia (kalingrad?) be grey. So, just make it non-playable. Otherwise you'd have to mention somewhere it's part of Russia. I don't think it adds to gameplay. I know you're trying to be accurate with the map so lets hear other opinions.

qwert is having similar problems with creta & cyrenaica territory on his imperium romanum map. here, we have three brown countries with exclaves: russia has kaliningrad, turkey has thrace and azerbaijan has nakichevan. the latter two have had artificial land bridges added, but it's impractical to do this with russia. would the purpose of a brown dotted line connecting each exclave with its mother country be more obvious if there were three of them instead of just one? in other words, how about removing the land bridges (for turkey and azerbaijan) and using brown dotted lines for all three of these countries?

the border between albania and serbia needs to be lengthened a bit to be properly visible. perhaps this can be done by shifting macedonia slightly to the right. otherwise, the balkans is a great improvement on before.

ian.

[edbeard]

1. so is greece part of the islands continent?

1. No

so then it's not part of anything? I hate those type of countries for maps.

Are you adding a crete-greece-cyprus bonus or something? I don't get the sudden colour change and I didn't see an explanation. Ok now I just saw this

- The Balkan States- to get a bonus for this area, I'm contemplating having a 'hold any 6 or 7' (out of 10) requirement, instead of having to hold the whole thing??

so maybe the colour change was a mistake since the numbered territories only go up to 8. Greece and crete would make 10 and I'm not sure where cyprus would fit. Maybe with the transcontinental?

[Qwert]

Aim from balkan,and i know that Grece is a part of Balkan

[hulmey]

in europe there is no british isles....Its the United Kingdom and the republic of ireland has nothing to do with the UK. please change this

No thanks. Rep. Ireland is not part of the UK, and I want to keep the British Countries as they are - especially as I live in England

I'm not sure what the Med.Islands bonus is. Why does the gradient end in brown? I don't see any brown islands?

What about this?

Sorry...
I'll look at that when I redo the legend. Cyprus was orignally brown, which is why there is brown on there...

1. so is greece part of the islands continent?
2. It doesn't seem like it should be. And, if it is, I think it needs to be more clear.

3. The BeNeLux colour is better now.

4. I'd say you should show more of corsica's colour and not block it with the army rectangle and the label. Make it easy to see right away that it's red.

5. I'd say make that part of russia (kalingrad?) be grey. So, just make it non-playable. Otherwise you'd have to mention somewhere it's part of Russia. I don't think it adds to gameplay. I know you're trying to be accurate with the map so lets hear other opinions.

1. No
2. The Med Islands are going to be confusing too If I go ahead with that bonus, then they will all be in two continents... the one that corresponds to their colour, and the Med Islands one too.
3. Thanks - it was an easy fix
4. Good suggestion - I'll move the Corsica label - I think that's the easist thing to do.
5. I'm not sure - but lets hear other opinions

well, your not offering a true representation of "Europa". Should'nt we be sticking to true represnation of europe!?!?! plus i was probably living there before you were born lol (jut one of the lucky ones the get away)

[The Viking]

Wait, hulmey what are you suggesting be done?

[MrBenn]

Update!

Here's what I've done:
- The legend has been reworked - I think it's easier to read, and the title fits the style of the rest of the map
- The Med Islands colouring is sorted (I hope), and I've added in another key at the bottom.
- I've modified the style of the territory names, and I think they look a bit more balanced, and seem a bit smoother
- The name/shadow on Corsica has been tweaked to make it more visible
- The texture in the background has been fiddled a bit.

[MrBenn]

edit:

[RjBeals]

Should benelux really be +2? or what about +1?
I like that the bonus amounts are added on the small map. Why didn't you make the small map bigger by moving the title off the legend?

[zimmah]

The Netherlands are after refered to as NL, and not ne, so i'd rather see nl on the key.