Das Schloß [QUENCHED #2]

[MOBAJOBG]

I would certainly play games on this map after the urgently required modification because I really want to know whether it's as epic in scale and engaging as Waterloo.

[BikerAngel]

Personally I like it! might be better with doubles or more people but one on one it takes thinking and not just killing!

[Shatners Bassoon]

Love this map,have only played it with 4 players so far and don't really see any problems but i can understand that playing a 1v1 could be pretty problematic for the second player to start.

[BENJIKAT IS DEAD]

Personally I like it! might be better with doubles or more people but one on one it takes thinking and not just killing!

1v1 doesn't require any thought at all (after the realisation of the only strategy that works)


I like all of oaktown's suggestions except for the one about being about to target the initial parachute drops (I really like the uniqueness of not being able to be killed)

[TomLocke]

First, I love this map.

Second, in regards to lack of 1v1 strategy, there are plenty of maps that lack 1v1 strategy, such as Doodle Earth. Maybe the bonuses may need to be lowered, but that'd certainly be an easy fix.

Third, I am playing a doubles game on the map, and it looks as if it will be quite fair...

[cairnswk]

Personally I like it! might be better with doubles or more people but one on one it takes thinking and not just killing!

1v1 doesn't require any thought at all (after the realisation of the only strategy that works)


I like all of oaktown's suggestions except for the one about being about to target the initial parachute drops (I really like the uniqueness of not being able to be killed)

OK...lets crunch some numbers here.

Let's assume (for argument sake) that game is 1vs1...
each player has received 4 para-starting positions each, and after the 1st round they have both progressed to the x[2] positions and nothing else.
player 1 -> will receive 24 bonus points + 2 to enable him to bust through 1 x (6) checkpoint which he has an attrition rate of 9 on, leaving him 16 numbers to bust through pvt whoever (2) and AA(6), after which he moves onto AA with 7 armies.

that leaves him enough to have a bombardment at player 2 on at least 7 of 8 positions, almost wiping player 2 out of the bonus stakes. This is relatively consistent with my observations of 2 player games that have started.
Although i am seeing also that some 2 player games are getting through to 9 or 10 rounds before a winner is clear.

Anyway, below is a possible solution based on what oaktown has proposed (without losing the helipad but using the killer neutrals to respawn the helipad to a neutral after a players turn)

Version 25.
1. starting positions +1 bonus
2. checkpoints start with 3 neutrals
3. AA, AB, AC start with 24 neutrals
4. helipads start with 18 neutrals each (although i am thinking this may need to be higher to get players to use the cable cars) - i have only seen one game progress to using the cable car successfully yet.
5. wache aus and wache in start with 6 neutrals each

[cairnswk]

Question from V25 above....
Is the helipad neutral start count and respawn high enough? I am kind of thinking it should be possibly 24, afterall the cable cars are going to take at least 14 to conquer.

[Herakilla]

the only reason you will use either the cable cars or the heli pads is either to connect your armies for fortifications or if you get kicked out of the airport or castle by another player

ive played 3 or 4 games 1v1 and it is incredibly fair especially because i play freestyle. but so far only once have i taken the cable cars and that was because i didnt realise there was a helipad in the castle

[gimil]

24 is far to high for the guns. It pretty much means there not worth taking. It jsut means you waste more troops breaking it for the sake of taking out a few small bonuses. I thik maybe a 7 or 8 would do it, maybe even a 6.

[cairnswk]

the only reason you will use either the cable cars or the heli pads is either to connect your armies for fortifications or if you get kicked out of the airport or castle by another player

ive played 3 or 4 games 1v1 and it is incredibly fair especially because i play freestyle. but so far only once have i taken the cable cars and that was because i didnt realise there was a helipad in the castle

U huh! thanks for that feedback Herakilla....that was part of my original thinking/reasoning...that neither helipad nor cable cars would be used if there was starters in the castle.

[cairnswk]

24 is far to high for the guns. It pretty much means there not worth taking. It jsut means you waste more troops breaking it for the sake of taking out a few small bonuses. I thik maybe a 7 or 8 would do it, maybe even a 6.

Mmmm, i'm thinking that 6 would not be enough. How about 9. Especially if the checkpoints are now only 3.

[gimil]

24 is far to high for the guns. It pretty much means there not worth taking. It jsut means you waste more troops breaking it for the sake of taking out a few small bonuses. I thik maybe a 7 or 8 would do it, maybe even a 6.

Mmmm, i'm thinking that 6 would not be enough. How about 9. Especially if the checkpoints are now only 3.

9 should do it, but 24 is far far to much. what would be the point in breaking a 24 to break a bunch of +1 bonuses? It would be easier to use those troops to defence.

[pamoa]

Excellent map, linear gameplay 1vs1.
V25 seems much more equilibrated. Very good the troops in the castle!

Suggestion:
remove helipad A so cable car became useful and also bus navette. It will make the game last much more but will give space for some come back. And there will be only one type of connections between the 3 main area of the game.

[cairnswk]

9 should do it, but 24 is far far to much. what would be the point in breaking a 24 to break a bunch of +1 bonuses? It would be easier to use those troops to defence.

Thanks gimil....

Latest advance for the guns AA etec....9 neutral starters in Version 26 below.

[BENJIKAT IS DEAD]

A few points with the current setup re 1v1:

1) Only once have I failed to capture all 8 extra +2 territories.

2) I have never bothered attacking through a checkpoint - attacking from the town means there are 2 neutrals and 1 less territory in the way to the guns. Which makes the left side of the town so much more important than the right (something I haven't seen mentioned)

3) The helipads / cable cars are irrelevant (and it won't matter how many neutrals there are there at all unless this is addressed) because there is no reason to have the airport or the castle except to win the game. (Even if you stick 500 in the way all that happens is it takes a little longer - I have only bothered going into the castle when I am getting 40+ per turn)


IF all the (24) starting places get +1 and start with 3, then the following happens:

You get 8 to deploy. Assuming average dice, I would deploy 1,1,1,5, meaning that on average I will get a little over 3 of the extra territories (but most importantly 50% that I get one next to a checkpoint.

On turn 2, I'll get 11 to deploy, so my 13 (approx) armies need to be able (on average) to attack the AA guns but be able to do little thereafter.
13v3,2,7 is 53%, so I suggest the AA guns start with 7 or 8 (and have no bonuses)


I still think the ariport/town/castle bonuses also need to be upped. Even with the parachutes being worth +1, in 1v1 they are collectively worth +12; currently +3or4 from each of the airport/town is too little.

[MOBAJOBG]

9 neutral armies on the Batteries is a nice figure and that should be enough to put a damper on BID's analysis. Can we try to work on the Helipads?

[t-o-m]

ive played 2 1v1 games on this, nad once i went 1st, and once i went second. won both of them however the deciding factor of this is:

• if you can get them out of a region asap, e.g out of the airport
• whether you go for the parachuters 1st of not
• whether you can bomard the opposition out of his parachuters
• whether you can suppress him in the parachuters

thats how to win in my view!

i think that the parachuter's bonus should go down, and the neutral armies amount on them go up by 1army

[luckycharms8282]

it looks like a cool map...but its just confusing directions. the bonuses and point-of-the-game aren't explained very well on the map itself.

[cairnswk]

it looks like a cool map...but its just confusing directions. the bonuses and point-of-the-game aren't explained very well on the map itself.

luckycharms8282....can you offer suggestions as to what you might think is appropriate.

[cairnswk]

..... Can we try to work on the Helipads?

Suggestions MOBAJOBG please?

[westsidekilla6]

I think it's a great map I have no suggestions on how to make it better I love the map though

[t-o-m]

one suggestion, or fault, is that it is not very clear what boarders helipad A.
eg. Bus-Schuppan > Helipad A.

but its not a major problem - just making you aware if youre not alreadu

[pamoa]

it seems you didn't saw it as I posted it a few seconds before update v26

Excellent map, linear gameplay 1vs1.
V25 seems much more equilibrated. Very good the troops in the castle!

Suggestion:
remove helipad A so cable car became useful and also bus navette. It will make the game last much more but will give space for some come back. And there will be only one type of connections between the 3 main area of the game.

[suggs]

An awful map.
I would suggest scrapping it, and starting from scratch.
Or at least put some colour in it!
But the game play is dreadful.

[cairnswk]

I think it's a great map I have no suggestions on how to make it better I love the map though

thanks westsidekilla6. appreciate you dropping by.

one suggestion, or fault, is that it is not very clear what boarders helipad A.
eg. Bus-Schuppan > Helipad A.

but its not a major problem - just making you aware if youre not alreadu

yes t-o-m....some of the borders have been mentioned. thanks for comments though.

it seems you didn't saw it as I posted it a few seconds before update v26

Excellent map, linear gameplay 1vs1.
V25 seems much more equilibrated. Very good the troops in the castle!

Suggestion:
remove helipad A so cable car became useful and also bus navette. It will make the game last much more but will give space for some come back. And there will be only one type of connections between the 3 main area of the game.

i did see your post pamoa, but when i saw it at 1:06am in the morning, i decided to "sleep on it" as i needed some more Zzzzeeeeeeees. I assume you mean the bus schuppen (bus shed) by bus navette. this one has to stay for the map to be true to the story line. but the helipad A to the castle has to go. I am also thinking the helipad at the airport to the castle should only be one-way.

An awful map.
I would suggest scrapping it, and starting from scratch.
Or at least put some colour in it!
But the game play is dreadful.

Sorry that you don't like it suggs, but the storyline is set in winter and i believe i have done that justice.
You know what the answer is to maps that you don't like -> you don't have to play them.
As for the gameplay, that's why this getting a second outing.
thanks for dropping by though.