Moderator: Cartographers
OliverFA wrote:-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:I'd be great to get some feedback on this issue as well, particularly from Oliver if he's still around.
Hello! I am not only around, I am fully back (as you can see by my golden rank icon) but I don't want to hijack the project. I think that it's fair to acknowledge that Isaiah is the one who has the last word at this stage of the project about what to do and what not to do.
However, I am happy to provide my advice and comments, but please take them as suggestions not as something that I want to impose.
And of course, I am making the XML for this.
OliverFA wrote:About the bonus structure, I seem to remember that the original spirit was what Tanarri says, but there is no need to resort to memory. This evening I'll look at the XML file where it is implemented (the huge one of 400KB with dozens and dozens of continents) and post what is exactly implemented there.
RedBaron0 wrote:You could color code the cardinal direction to match the color on the map for the dials as an alternative, and/or also bold the corresponding cardinal direction as Tan suggested.
OliverFA wrote:-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:I'd be great to get some feedback on this issue as well, particularly from Oliver if he's still around.
Hello! I am not only around, I am fully back (as you can see by my golden rank icon) but I don't want to hijack the project. I think that it's fair to acknowledge that Isaiah is the one who has the last word at this stage of the project about what to do and what not to do.
However, I am happy to provide my advice and comments, but please take them as suggestions not as something that I want to impose.
And of course, I am making the XML for this.
ender516 wrote:I searched for "doomsday" in this topic, and had a quick look at the last (oldest) posts. There, the Doomsday Device was marked in the legend as "Victory". So that suggests that, initially at least, it was a winning condition. Further review of the history is in order, but I'm at work right now.
ender516 wrote:Okay.
I am not sure it is important at this point, but I also vaguely remember that the change from +1 for 1 to +3 for 3 was intended to reduce the number of continents in the XML. With collections available now, this might be less of a concern.
-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:ender516 wrote:Okay.
I am not sure it is important at this point, but I also vaguely remember that the change from +1 for 1 to +3 for 3 was intended to reduce the number of continents in the XML. With collections available now, this might be less of a concern.
That was the precise reason it was changed from +1 for 1 to +3 for 3. With collections, we should be able to put it back to +1 for 1 and it's a suggestion I'd recommend. Collections will make a huuuuuge difference to the bulk of the XML.
-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:And I totally agree that it's Isaiah's project and he should have final word on what's done. It's just that he mentioned speaking with TaCKtiX regarding the conscription bonuses and TaCKtiX said that we were going with +2 per 3 regions and +3 per 3 regions for Secret and Open Conscription. It sounds like TaCKtiX misremembered the bonus (unless I'm just forgetting a change that was made) and said that instead of the +1 for 2 regions and +1 for 1 region that we working with originally. I think going with how it's set up now (the seemingly misremembered version) detracts from how important of a tech Open Conscription was originally intended to be, which essentially was a comparible end-of-game option to the Doomsday Device. Perhaps looking at an example of the bonuses would help put my concern in perspective. Say someone had 30 territories, here's how the bonuses look currently.
Normal - 10 troops
Secret Conscription - 20 troops
Open Conscription - 30 troops
This essentially means that by researching Secret Conscription you are gaining 100% extra troops than you were previous to owning the tech and by researching Open Conscription, you are only getting 50% extra troops. To me, that makes Secret Conscription sound like more of an advanced tech than Open Conscription. The way it was set up before, this is what the bonuses would look like:
Normal - 10 troops
Secret Conscription - 15 troops
Open Conscription - 30 troops
This means researching Secret Conscription gives you 50% extra troops and researching Open Conscription gives you 100% extra troops, compared to what you would be getting prior to owning the new tech. This makes Open Conscription seem much more valuable and much more like an advanced tech.
My other concern is if it remains the way it is now, then since the player is getting twice the bonus than they were previously, the neutral value on Secret Conscription should be increased appropriately as well, if not by double then at least close to it. This would essentially kill Secret Conscription as an option as an early'ish game tech and viable tech route, which I feel would significantly damage the gameplay potential, since at that point you've only got two major research routes to take: National Pride/Propaganda/TSF/DoomsDay sit and build route or the Mining route. The previous way you also had the Conscription expand-as-quick-as-you-can route as well.
Sorry if I'm coming across at all pushy here, I will happily respect any final decisions Isaiah makes regarding the map, but I feel this is an important gameplay issue and it's a change that seems to have been made by Isaiah only based on information TaCKtiX provided him with--information which, as far as I can remember, isn't correct. It's a very easy mistake to make when you've been away from the development of the map for more than a year since it's only the difference between increasing the troop amount or decreasing the region amount of the standard +1 per 3 region bonus.
EDIT: Oops, I wrote this before I realized there was another page of posts, so the tone's different than I would have written it if I had known. I'll keep the post up since I think the thoughts are still worth putting out there.
koontz1973 wrote:isaiah, can you post a neutrals map for me or point me in a direction of one please. Then I will look at Tanarri points.
EricPhail wrote:National Pride: +6 armies for owning your whole homeland. OK
the tech description says it's for matched lab and homeland, which is correct at the moment? (for that matter which was intended?)
EricPhail wrote:Glad for that answer Isaiah.
would like an answer on my questions re: territory MH3 not having a number in the 888s on p89s small
and the duplicate entry in the legend if possible though
isaiah40 wrote:EricPhail wrote:National Pride: +6 armies for owning your whole homeland. OK
the tech description says it's for matched lab and homeland, which is correct at the moment? (for that matter which was intended?)
Thank you for commenting Eric! To collect the National Pride bonus you need to hold for example SW Lab and SW Homeland. The homeland is designated on the map with the outer glow.
EricPhail wrote:Drops is beyond my knowledge so I can't really help you there. (but i'd favor ones in a kingdom getting one value all others getting a different one probably 5 and 3 respectively)
However one or two other things:
Legend: Having the lab entry above the researches assualt nothing one seems to make more sense to me
Also it may be wise to allow the researches to assault (or more commonly reinforce) back to the lab for two reasons:
1. avoids troops getting trapped if a basic research kills an advanced one with troops left over (given these locations can't be attacked by foes, or card sets dropping extra troops there
2. allows the possibility of re-taking the library if it gets killed due to nuclear spoils
on that note can certain territories be programmed to never drop as cards as nuking capitals would be instant death in larger games, and nuking libraries very annoying, also nuking the neutral doomsday device would be rather distorting.
(Actually perhaps this map should have a disclaimer: don't play with nuclear spoils)
isaiah40 wrote:EricPhail wrote:Glad for that answer Isaiah.
would like an answer on my questions re: territory MH3 not having a number in the 888s on p89s small
and the duplicate entry in the legend if possible though
The 888's are only there to show how they fit, so one territory not having it does not matter really. Duplicate entry has already been deleted for the next update.
Provisional Starting Numbers: I think that some of them need to change especially the mines. Some of the mines start at 5, others at 2 or 3. I believe they should all start with the same number.
-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:Hi Isaiah, a few things that jumped out at me:
* Visually speaking, I think having TSF be the first listed advanced research makes a bit more sense, since to me at least, it more intuitively goes along with it being able to help with the research of advanced techs.
* The neutrals were originally designed to have homelands have a base neutral of 2, the territories bordering the homelands have a base neutral of 5, one more territory out further having a base of 3, the next set out having 2, and the next set 1. Those with mines have one extra neutral troop. The neutrals were laid out this way so it would be increasingly more difficult for someone to get closer to an opponents homeland, thereby making it a bit harder for an early elimination of those who chose to focus more effort on research.
* Mines should be at +2 per mine.
* Open conscription should read +1 troop per region
Hope this helps
EricPhail wrote:edit: from OliverFAs post
National Pride: +6 armies for owning your whole homeland. OK
the tech description says it's for matched lab and homeland, which is correct at the moment? (for that matter which was intended?)
edit2: wait nevermind works by definition unless labs can be lost
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