Cartography Committee

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Cartography Committee

Postby AndyDufresne on Sun May 21, 2006 3:43 pm

Ahoy and Good Day to you all!

To ensure that both the quantity and quality of maps is up to par with Conquer Club, I'm going to establish a 'Cartography Committee'.

The Committee's main job will be to dissect the map in both areas of game play and visual appeal, before a map is posted on the site for community play. Of course these Committee members won't take over the role of the normal community user in the Foundry. The Foundry posters will still be there (and encouraged) to give advice, suggestions, and debate about all maps in the developmental process. The Committee will oversee a more final debate before a map is up to play. I tentatively see 5 members of the Committee (one including me). This is to ensure that one person isn't controlling the map approval process and gouging out all personally disliked ideas, and also so that there are enough minds attempting to see each map from every possible angle. That said...

If you would like to apply for a position in the 'Cartography Committee', please send an application to me via PM. Please include a description of what you can contribute to the Committee and anything else you would like to mention. I'll be talking a closer look at the Foundry also. A more detailed explanation of the Committee's workings and methods of analysis will be discussed once things are up and running.

Thanks for your time! I look forward to hearing back from many of you.


--Andy
Last edited by AndyDufresne on Wed May 31, 2006 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby SMITH197 on Sun May 21, 2006 6:46 pm

i love the idea andy, but i have one minor modification...

The idea of having 5 members of the committee is great, but could we also maybe have some rotating committee members? Kind of like the UN security council. In other words, we'd have 5 permanent members of the committee, and say 4 temps, that serve a 3 month term.....


Just my input, keep up the great work!
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Postby MrConfigT on Mon May 22, 2006 7:53 am

I'd be able to help out....
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Postby Mr. K on Mon May 22, 2006 11:11 am

I don't mean to be rude, but is there really a need for this? Has there been any problem with this in the past? Since when have any majorly bad maps gotten past lack? (Aside from small XML errors that can get fixed easily no problem)

If you decide the gameplay on certain maps isn't good enough because it doesn't match some standards you may use, whose to say it still wouldn't be an interesting map. The only job I can see an official committee having is telling people things like that. If you don't do that, then it seems like you wont be doing anything at all, and the committee is kinda useless. If your job is to help people in the process along the way when they need help, then why does there need to be a committee for that? You can do it anyway without being formal and you wont be any less valid.

Really I just don't see any purpose for it, and the only possible purpose I see as being harmful more than hurtful.
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Postby Hoff on Mon May 22, 2006 2:12 pm

I kind of agree with Mr. K. If there are 5 ppl in the committee then there will be a narrow view of maps. We have plenty of maps that in general have the same play feel. If we are trying to introduce new concepts and ideas that the community might enjoy to play on, the idea could just be brushed aside because the 5 like a more traditional layout of a map.

I think the map foundary in its self does a really nice job at improving maps. I do agree that some maps seem like they might have been rushed in production. So maybe you can have some control over what gets sent to lack or not. If you notice that the majority of the community is unhappy with a map, then tell the maker to go back and work some more. If the majority of the community likes the map, then send it on to lack. A simple poll in the map foundary could accomplish this. A committee would just be breading maps designed for their likings, not of teh community as a whole.

just my 2 cents...
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Postby Mr. K on Mon May 22, 2006 2:17 pm

The way I see it, the only good reason for this kind of thing is to take a little load off of lack in not having to test the XML and other minor stuff. You don't need 5 people to confirm that all the coordinates are correct or that the border countries are all working fine. If the job goes beyond that, than its just limiting creativity. If its not limiting the creativity, then the committee isn't really doing anything.
It would be good if there was a person designated to check to make sure the map is working properly before sending it to lack, so that way lack doesn't have to. But beyond that, lack has to confirm the map in the end anyway, so why make more hurdles for it before it can even get to lack?
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Postby thegrimsleeper on Mon May 22, 2006 2:33 pm

I don't know how you guys feel about the Middle East map, and I don't know if you were lurking in the Foundry around the time it went live, but it was quite controversial when it did. Marvaddin, SuperMarcol and myself had all been working quite hard on our own maps, trying to get the graphics up to the level of quality of the original three. And after saying that "something that looked like it was designed in microsoft Paint might not make the cut," for lack to put that Middle East map through as-is was kind of a blow.

I don't know about you, but I can't imagine a committee without Jota, who is arguably the most dedicated to implementing new and revolutionary ideas to the way we play the game. The crossword map shares borders. Space has warp routes that will really open up lines of attack. United States of Apocalypse is going to really shake things up if a decision can be made as to how the negative bonuses will work. So I think your fears of creativity fascism are unfounded.

Also, if a map is too closely following another concept, it may be redundant. The Battledome map that has been suggested would, IMO, too closely resemble the crossword map to make the cut.

At the end of the day, everything is just an experiment. If a committee doesn't work, then it doesn't work... But why not give it a try and see how things go?
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Postby Mr. K on Mon May 22, 2006 2:40 pm

Well I really see no purpose for it. Like I said, if its not being a very controlling body, then it really isn't doing anything at all.

Personally, I love the middle east map. I'd love if it was done better, graphic wise. It would be awesome if it was spruced up and a lot cooler looking and all that. But if the author was unwilling (or unable) to do that, then I'd rather have the version thats up now than nothing at all. If you're saying that the Committee would have done us a favor and prevented the map from going live, then thats a great reason why I don't think the committee should exist. If the committee reported back to the author of the middle east map and said "sorry, you have to make this look nicer" and the author didn't want to, and we never got a middle east map period, i'd be upset.
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Postby kevinc on Mon May 22, 2006 5:37 pm

C'mon, seriously. Talk about Red Tape!

Just make sure people's maps have some basic common sense applied to them, and have a decent production value, and everything will be cool.
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Postby rocksolid on Mon May 22, 2006 7:49 pm

I'm kind of with the K here. When there are beefs about graphics of existing maps or aspects of existing maps, they can come up in the foundry and gather consensus or not gather consensus. People distrust committees, and they have a way of poisoning good community dynamics, which I think exist right now in the foundry. The only real problem case seems to be Middle East, and I think that's mostly because the author doesn't seem to be around much (I've never played a game against Spiegelprime). And while I think it's only fair to ask an author to overhaul something rather than doing it yourself, if the author is scarce it seems to me that someone else can do the job in good faith.

The CC community has its own solutions and risks draining them of vigour by putting a committee in place. I trust Andy's ability to moderate the foundry, but I think a decision-making board would be a mistake.
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Postby Banana Stomper on Mon May 22, 2006 10:37 pm

I don't know. One thing it offers at the very least is 5 final sets of eyes taking a look at the maps instead of one. I mean, the committee always existed, but in lack alone. So nothing new is being proposed here, just an improvement on the system.
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Postby Marvaddin on Tue May 23, 2006 6:16 pm

Im with you, Banana... its an improvement of the system, and its a good idea...

I like the Middle East map, and I would love it with better graphics... But, if I was lack, I would say "sorry, you have to make this look nicer"... If the map was not posted? Well, surely the maker could improve it, or another player could do an even better job, we dont know. Its nothing compared to Indochina map, that is still unfinished, by the way. If we will have a committee, no way to get things like that again... "Ah, but I love it" - maybe it could be better, no?

The committee will point the problems, suggest some things... something that could pass, like the fact Battledome is alike to Crossword, and people have little interest. My comment about little interest was the 9th in the topic, and the map was done to be sent... So, I think the purpose is produce a greater reflexion and be more aware to some great errors... The committee will not design the maps, definitely.

Im with you, Andy.
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Postby Hoff on Tue May 23, 2006 6:22 pm

If there was a committee it would only limit the creativity of the map. There would be no new ideas coming out. Every new map would be exactly alike. The committe could favor having a map like the classic, but everyone else might like whatever is different about this new map. But because the committee doesnt like the idea it will never get anywhere.
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Postby haha on Tue May 23, 2006 6:25 pm

its a good idea and it cant hurt but maby it should go throught the comunity first
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Postby kingwaffles on Tue May 23, 2006 6:38 pm

I think that fact that there are so many people saying that they think it will limit creatvity and stifle new ideas show that it most defiently will not. If there are this many people who want new ideas then how do you think we are going to get a commitee full of people who cling to the classic as the only good map? :D
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